steadyb Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Current Vote: Roland RD-700SX 43% (15) Yamaha P250 (CP300) 11% (4) Yamaha S90-ES 14% (5) Kawai MP8 11% (4) GEM Promega 3 20% (7) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 It's possible that S90-ES and CP300 are based on the same sample set. They could have sampled like crazy but only used a portion of the samples for the S90-ES, based on memory limitation. The damper resonance (yes, that's sympathetic vibration, including the effect of the soundboard) means that the new piano includes a convolution engine (similar to SIR reverb, for folks who know what that is). I don't understand what the Yamaha site meant by "Stereo Sustain (open strings while pedaling)", unless that's an odd reference to the convolution engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 This poll is all wrong. It should simply list "Kawai" and "Other". I pass. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridog6996 Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by Jazzwee: Given that there is no compressed or uncompressed statement on the CP300, and there is similarly no similar statement of compression on the S90ES, one would assume that the 53Meg samples on the S90ES is larger than the CP300. Is the S90ES's sample size 53 Megs? I'm fairly sure that I read somewhere that the S90ES used a 32 Meg piano sample. Can't remember where, though... My YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by learjeff: It's possible that S90-ES and CP300 are based on the same sample set. They could have sampled like crazy but only used a portion of the samples for the S90-ES, based on memory limitation. The damper resonance (yes, that's sympathetic vibration, including the effect of the soundboard) means that the new piano includes a convolution engine (similar to SIR reverb, for folks who know what that is). I don't understand what the Yamaha site meant by "Stereo Sustain (open strings while pedaling)", unless that's an odd reference to the convolution engine. Either because of corporate pride, internal politics or some other reason, Yamaha only samples Yamaha acoustic pianos. So with the S90 series you get the S700 and with everthing else you get a CFIIIS. I don't know how many times you can resample the same piano and how much difference you're going to find with the resample. I thought the S90 and S90ES pianos sounded similar, for example. All Yamahas sound to me like they were sampled in anechoic chambers. I think this is deliberate and part of what gives Yamaha digital pianos their sound. I don't know if the string resonace and pedal resonance is done using convolution or just an FX. On the Roland RD700SX you have the pedal down FX and you have string resonance, which, if you hold down a chord, let it die, and if you bang a loud bass note you will hear the notes of the chord so long as they are in the hamonic series of the bass note, just like a piano. It's done quite well, but I'm pretty sure it's an FX. Yamaha, GEM and Roland all seem to be doing similar things in this area. The Nord Stage uses pedal down samples, which is another way to achieve that particular piano nuance. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finale Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by gangsu: This poll is all wrong. It should simply list "Kawai" and "Other". I pass. Hi Sue. Hey, if you could see the list, then you cheated and voted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by Cydonia: Hi Sue. Hey, if you could see the list, then you cheated and voted. Hi, Cydonia! I may be a lot of things but I'm not a cheat. Some of my best friends play Kurzweils, and Nord Stages ...obviously this useless poll was rigged. I would like to know who those other promega fans are, though. I'm wondering if they're going to step up to bat, or if I have to beat a confession out of burningbusch myself. Are you listening, burningbusch? All keyboards are not created equal. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhunter Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 The people who voted for the GEM or Kawai were the ones who looked at the poll then realised that they didn't like or hadn't played any of the others Hi Su Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Haha, yeah that's the other thing. Who out there has played all of the listed boards? (Besides me, but I don't count) "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzwee Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by Bridog6996: Originally posted by Jazzwee: Given that there is no compressed or uncompressed statement on the CP300, and there is similarly no similar statement of compression on the S90ES, one would assume that the 53Meg samples on the S90ES is larger than the CP300. Is the S90ES's sample size 53 Megs? I'm fairly sure that I read somewhere that the S90ES used a 32 Meg piano sample. Can't remember where, though... I cut and pasted directly from Yamaha site about the 53 meg. Hamburg Steinway O, Crumar Mojo, Nord Electro 4 HP 73, EV ZXA1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finale Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by gangsu: Hi, Cydonia! I may be a lot of things but I'm not a cheat. Some of my best friends play Kurzweils, and Nord Stages ...obviously this useless poll was rigged.That's right, surely any "best digital piano" poll without a Kurzweil choice can't be serious. And don't call me Shirley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhunter Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 I for one haven't played all of the keyboards in the poll. I play a Yamaha P120 at home and to take out to gigs but this is a compramise between sound, portabillity and cost. I have been impressed by the GEM pianos I've played them in shops and have seen a Promega 3 used live; the keyboard player was using rhodes sounds behind a soul singer but did a short piano solo piece (acoustic piano but don't know which patch on the Promega) during the concert which was amazing. Did I (and my girlfriend) enjoy this because of the sound of the Promega, the playing or the amplification used or the room accoustics etc. etc? Who knows - maybe there were other people in the audience thinking "man that keyboard sounds awful!". I must admit that I didn't think the sound was particularly authentic (whatever that means) but I did like it because it was very expresive and just moved me. Sometimes when playing my P120 I wish it were more like this - or do I wish I could play like the guy at the concert? or maybe I should have a better amp or some sort of stereo monitoring? I agree that a poll that doesn't include every choice and stipulates that every voter must have tried all of the boards in question is flawed - more people are going to vote for Roland and Yamaha because more people own or have access to try out these keyboards. Other boards may be better but won't get so many votes because people haven't had the oportunity to try them. Still, it does make for a lively discussion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by gangsu: Are you listening, burningbusch? All keyboards are not created equal. They most certainly are. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edp Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I'm not sure how we can have this poll unless we have samples from all the keyboards involved. Surely someone on the message board could create samples of the missing keyboards, right? PX-310 | amateur jazz and some classical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Originally posted by burningbusch: Originally posted by gangsu: Are you listening, burningbusch? All keyboards are not created equal. They most certainly are. Busch. Good catch! Manhunter, just a note to say I enjoyed your post. "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guestuserguestuser.com Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I agree with Stephen Fortner, that it is completely unjustified to equate the P250 and the CP-300. The CP-300 isn't even released yet, for pete's sake. Play it and hear it for yourself before you make such a statement. Otherwise you're just contributing to the constant stream of rumour and conjecture that we see so much of around here and elsewhere on the internet (AKA the World Wide Waste-of-time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skykeys Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I have been doing a lot of research comparing the RD700XS (RD7) and the S90 ES (S9E). I finally got to play both of them side by side, and I'll post my thoughts here. .... But first, to comment on a previous post in this thread, I'll mention that I am pretty sure the S9E has more memory (53 MB, verified by Yamaha) dedicated to the piano samples than the new CP300 (40 MB). Both numbers are converted to 16 bit linear. I have seen some spec sheets that list the S9E having 32 MB. That is incorrect; it is 53 MB. Starting off with my bottom line, I slightly perferred the S9E to the RD7. Now, I know that this kind of statement is very subjective. I can see how some people would prefer the RD7; it's a very nice board. I just prefer the S9E, and here is why: Action: they aren't drastically different, but they are different. I thought the S9E had a slightly better rebound speed, and I preferred that, even though I think both actions are a tad too light for my taste. Now - here is a kicker for you. I use an old Ensoniq E-Prime, and that board has the best piano-like action of any other board I've tried, including these two. Too bad it's heavy as hxll to move, and the rest of the sounds on it are not compelling. But the piano sample on that old thing (it must be about 12 years old) is almost as good as these new boards, and the action is better; IMHO. . . . But, I digress. acoustic piano sound: both are good, I prefer the S9E, mainly I think because the Yamaha DSP is better, and it had more patch variations that I liked. all other sounds collectively: both are good, but I prefer the S9E. I do believe it's fair to say that the S9E has more powerful synth capabilities. I was pleasently surprised that the organ patches on the S9E are very good (to my ears) and I really like its "concert hall" strings patch. Ease of use: Here the RD7 is better, possibly much better. The issue for me is, do I think I can get comfortable enough navigating the S9E when playing live that it won't get in my way. I think I can, based on my limited use of it. So, I am going to buy an S9E. I only wish it had the same action as my E-Prime. Samick baby grand; Yamaha S90-ES; Ensoniq E-prime; bongos; tambourine; djimbe http://www.mindseyeviewband.com/MindsEyeView/MEV.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 Everbody gotten their vote in on this? Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Jazz+ How do you vote on this. I wasted time, $ and effort on my RD700SX purchase. Not to put anybody down for ANY purchase they choose, what works for one does not work for the other. I did have my issues w/ the RD700sx sample and I'm very very happy with my CP300. So please put me down for the CP300 in the Poll. Not the P-250, the CP300 if possible. Thanks, lb CP-50, YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Jazee+ To be fair, I haven't played a Promega. I'm pretty sure I've touched all the others at least once though! lb CP-50, YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundscape Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Originally posted by learjeff: While the Purgatory Creek comparison is great and fun, you can't use it to tell which is the better piano.There are limits for sure, but you might hear if there are any hideous (or not so hideous) flaws, and get an idea of the 'tone' (bright, etc.) I've downloaded many of the files from Purgatory Creek and I've listened to them over and over and over... it's really sharpened my ability to discriminate between different samples/patches. Another example is listening to the Promega file 3-4 seconds in... you can REALLY hear the effect of the physical modelling technologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Jazz+ Oh, I found the voting machine on the previous page, sorry I missed that. I'm sure my vote will be counted correctly now! Just as long as none of the machine registers have been initialized to start with a negative value that is in any one column for any one keyboard, like lets say a nice round negative number of -7000 for my good ol' CP300. In that case the number of people who voted would appear to be correct for the control totals and even the good ol' paper tape control totals. But there would be something rotten in Denmark and Hoboken too Batman. Oh Cheese Wiz! And all along I thought you had to dial-in in real time to effect those ol' registers. I'm sure my CP300 vote is safe in the reliable hands of Keyboard Magazine though! lb CP-50, YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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