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Dumb Theory Question


B.T.

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Originally posted by Dan South:

The dim7 chord is symmetrical, because all of the component notes are related by a minor third.

That's why we guitarists can take any dim 7 chord voicing and simply slide three frets up the neck (without changing the fingering hand shape) to get the next inversion, and slide up another three frets, and so on and so forth.

 

Ha! Take that, keyboard people! :P

 

- Jeff

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lerber3 and byrdnman: you made me smile - :D

 

jeff - don't give away our secrets ;) (they're also some of our limitations as we can get locked into patterns)

 

Ever since I realised I can play the same patten up three semitones over iim7b5 V7b9 I've been really overusing it! :o

 

Doh! I meant V alt (but it almost works on V7b9) ;)

 

Remember, the piano is a colour-coded instrument

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Originally posted by Jeff Klopmeyer:

That's why we guitarists can take any dim 7 chord voicing and simply slide three frets up the neck (without changing the fingering hand shape) to get the next inversion, and slide up another three frets, and so on and so forth.

 

Ha! Take that, keyboard people! :P

 

- Jeff

I love fingerboards! No stoopid black and white key patterns. Just shift and play!

 

(where's my flame suit?)

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Originally posted by Dan South:

Heh-heh! It wasn't such a dumb question after all.

But, as it turns out, there is such a thing as a dumb question. It is one that only has one correct answer, that you should have known before you asked it. This one is not; the answer can be argued a dozen different ways, thanks to good ol' enharmonics.

"I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it."

 

Les Paul

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Originally posted by Phil W:

Ever since I realised I can play the same patten up three semitones over iim7b5 V7b9 I've been really overusing it! :o

That's a trap everyone falls into at one point or another. I try and make it a point never to compose a new song right after I learn a new lick (or a new bit of theory), for this specific reason!

 

- Jeff

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I knew a guitar player that didn't know know the name of 'complex' (beyond maj or min triads)chords at all. I would say, "what's that chord at the end of bar 5?" and he would say: "Uh - this:" as he showed me his left hand in a claw like position in the air :)
I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead.
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Originally posted by Phred:

I knew a guitar player that didn't know know the name of 'complex' (beyond maj or min triads)chords at all. I would say, "what's that chord at the end of bar 5?" and he would say: "Uh - this:" as he showed me his left hand in a claw like position in the air :)

He knew where bar 5 was ? :D
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It's always been my understanding that a "Cdim" is C, Eb, Gb and Cm7b5 (or half-diminished 7th)has the notes C, Eb, Gb, Bb. Cdim7 is not the same as a Cdim because there is no 7th in the Cdim. But, a DIMINISHED SEVENTH chord is a diminished chord with a diminished seventh note and using the above examples would be the notes:

C, Eb, Gb, A (Bbb). Correct me if I am wrong.

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Originally posted by B.T.:

It's always been my understanding that a "Cdim" is C, Eb, Gb and Cm7b5 (or half-diminished 7th)has the notes C, Eb, Gb, Bb. Cdim7 is not the same as a Cdim because there is no 7th in the Cdim. But, a DIMINISHED SEVENTH chord is a diminished chord with a diminished seventh note and using the above examples would be the notes:

C, Eb, Gb, A (Bbb). Correct me if I am wrong.

I agree completely. Cdim does not equal Cdim7, and C half-diminished seventh (or Cm7b5) is something else, altogether. The half-diminished chord has a diminished fifth but the same seventh as a m7 chord. The dim7 chord lowers that 7th note one extra half-step.

 

C = C E G

 

Cmaj7 = C E G B

 

C7 = C E G Bb

 

Cm = C Eb G

 

Cm7 = C Eb G Bb

 

Cdim = C Eb Gb

 

Cm7b5 = C Eb Gb Bb = C half-diminshed seventh

 

Cdim7 = C Eb Gb Bbb

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Originally posted by Trill:

Originally posted by Phred:

I knew a guitar player that didn't know know the name of 'complex' (beyond maj or min triads)chords at all. I would say, "what's that chord at the end of bar 5?" and he would say: "Uh - this:" as he showed me his left hand in a claw like position in the air :)

He knew where bar 5 was ? :D
Geetar players always know where the bar is.

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Cdim does not equal Cdim7
I agree also. This is also a gray area. When I create my own leadsheets, I will write Cº but play Cº7. Why? To keep the page less clutered. Since I am the one reading it (perhaps also a bassplayer), I know what I meant. If there are four chord changes per measure or if the notation is very small, every bit of space you can save, helps to make it easier to read.

 

I even just write Cm for Cm7. I wouldn't write this way for publication though, just for myself.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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