lerber3 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 C6b5#2(omit 3rd) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Originally posted by lerber3: C6b5#2(omit 3rd) That's a bit sus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Originally posted by Dan South: The dim7 chord is symmetrical, because all of the component notes are related by a minor third.That's why we guitarists can take any dim 7 chord voicing and simply slide three frets up the neck (without changing the fingering hand shape) to get the next inversion, and slide up another three frets, and so on and so forth. Ha! Take that, keyboard people! - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 lerber3 and byrdnman: you made me smile - jeff - don't give away our secrets (they're also some of our limitations as we can get locked into patterns) Ever since I realised I can play the same patten up three semitones over iim7b5 V7b9 I've been really overusing it! Doh! I meant V alt (but it almost works on V7b9) Remember, the piano is a colour-coded instrument http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Originally posted by Jeff Klopmeyer: That's why we guitarists can take any dim 7 chord voicing and simply slide three frets up the neck (without changing the fingering hand shape) to get the next inversion, and slide up another three frets, and so on and so forth. Ha! Take that, keyboard people! - Jeff I love fingerboards! No stoopid black and white key patterns. Just shift and play! (where's my flame suit?) The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Originally posted by Dan South: Heh-heh! It wasn't such a dumb question after all.But, as it turns out, there is such a thing as a dumb question. It is one that only has one correct answer, that you should have known before you asked it. This one is not; the answer can be argued a dozen different ways, thanks to good ol' enharmonics. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Originally posted by Phil W: Ever since I realised I can play the same patten up three semitones over iim7b5 V7b9 I've been really overusing it! That's a trap everyone falls into at one point or another. I try and make it a point never to compose a new song right after I learn a new lick (or a new bit of theory), for this specific reason! - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Agreed! . . .and I made a mistake - I should have typed iim7b5 V alt although to be honest with these types of patterns you can get away with it - and you never exactly know what chords people will be playing behind your solo! http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I knew a guitar player that didn't know know the name of 'complex' (beyond maj or min triads)chords at all. I would say, "what's that chord at the end of bar 5?" and he would say: "Uh - this:" as he showed me his left hand in a claw like position in the air I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trill Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Originally posted by Phred: I knew a guitar player that didn't know know the name of 'complex' (beyond maj or min triads)chords at all. I would say, "what's that chord at the end of bar 5?" and he would say: "Uh - this:" as he showed me his left hand in a claw like position in the air He knew where bar 5 was ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerber3 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Bm7#1#3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Stop saying "dim7". It hurts my ears! It's "dim". If you see "dim" written, you better know you're expected to play the diminished 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerber3 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 When I see Cdim7 I think 'C half-diminished' or Cm7b5... I've been reading this post waithing for somebody to suggest that. Is Cdim7 the same as Cdim? O wha ta na siam. Lerb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.T. Posted March 14, 2006 Author Share Posted March 14, 2006 It's always been my understanding that a "Cdim" is C, Eb, Gb and Cm7b5 (or half-diminished 7th)has the notes C, Eb, Gb, Bb. Cdim7 is not the same as a Cdim because there is no 7th in the Cdim. But, a DIMINISHED SEVENTH chord is a diminished chord with a diminished seventh note and using the above examples would be the notes: C, Eb, Gb, A (Bbb). Correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Originally posted by B.T.: It's always been my understanding that a "Cdim" is C, Eb, Gb and Cm7b5 (or half-diminished 7th)has the notes C, Eb, Gb, Bb. Cdim7 is not the same as a Cdim because there is no 7th in the Cdim. But, a DIMINISHED SEVENTH chord is a diminished chord with a diminished seventh note and using the above examples would be the notes: C, Eb, Gb, A (Bbb). Correct me if I am wrong. I agree completely. Cdim does not equal Cdim7, and C half-diminished seventh (or Cm7b5) is something else, altogether. The half-diminished chord has a diminished fifth but the same seventh as a m7 chord. The dim7 chord lowers that 7th note one extra half-step. C = C E G Cmaj7 = C E G B C7 = C E G Bb Cm = C Eb G Cm7 = C Eb G Bb Cdim = C Eb Gb Cm7b5 = C Eb Gb Bb = C half-diminshed seventh Cdim7 = C Eb Gb Bbb The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Originally posted by Trill: Originally posted by Phred: I knew a guitar player that didn't know know the name of 'complex' (beyond maj or min triads)chords at all. I would say, "what's that chord at the end of bar 5?" and he would say: "Uh - this:" as he showed me his left hand in a claw like position in the air He knew where bar 5 was ? Geetar players always know where the bar is. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Cdim does not equal Cdim7 I agree also. This is also a gray area. When I create my own leadsheets, I will write Cº but play Cº7. Why? To keep the page less clutered. Since I am the one reading it (perhaps also a bassplayer), I know what I meant. If there are four chord changes per measure or if the notation is very small, every bit of space you can save, helps to make it easier to read. I even just write Cm for Cm7. I wouldn't write this way for publication though, just for myself. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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