Behringer Ultratone Amps

[Omar Awapara]

Hi, anybody knows when is the new line of keyboard amps form Behringer comming out? I've seen their website and their ULTRATONE amps look really nice. Only the smaller ultratone amp is already in stores, what about the rest of them? Anyone got a clue?

[Prague]

I, and anyone I work with, do not recommend their equipment.

[captainmri]

I read many favorable magazine reviews but this is a brand usually bashed on several websites.

Poor quality? Their rep of 'nicking' the technology of the competition? I don't have anything of theirs but have thought about it...

[Magpel]

B@$ringer: the only gear that you have to apologize to use, or at least make a credible claim of financial hardship...

 

The B*$ringer option is always there(they pretty much make everything, don't they?)and always tempting, esp. for non-critical widgets--a rehearsal PA, a little mixer for a second, bedroom DAW, a headphone amp.

 

I admit have danced with B@*ringer in times of need and weakness, and I can't pormise I won't do it again. But I don't use Warez and I don't donwnload free music, and I'm really not sure where I'm going with this...

 

sorry. carry on.

[Byrdman]

Has anyone got any documentation that they have stolen the IP of another company? These allegation have come up every so often but I have never seen anybody produce any actual evidence and if there is any evidence I would like to know about it since I am not going to Boycott a company on hearsay.

 

I know about the pedal look and feel issue. That, however was mainly an issue of "passing off" and while that for me represented very poor form, it is a different issue to IP theft.

[zeronyne]

Mackie\'s original lawsuit

 

Two years later, a settlement with Sam Ash

 

And a settlement with Behringer

 

The terms are confidential, so no one can do anything but guess what the outcome was with absolutely no basis in fact.

 

As far as these other claims, would truly like someone to come up with a link to the litigation. Obviously, the Roland pedal fiasco was a blatant attempt to cash in on the Boss iconic design scheme, but as I've always said, it's a matter of degrees here.

 

But IP theft? Could someone please find me some material to read about their "many" instances of IP theft? Seriously, someone find it for me. Not other forum posts on the subject, but an industry press release or a court filing. If not, I think everyone should slowly back away, until there is further info, from allegations of ip theft.

[K K]

Omar, first welcome to the site.

 

The "low-quality reputation" associated with Behringer is unjustified and IMHO pure http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/Imptress/bs.gif.

 

Some years ago, I personally looked for months for a mixer offering a particular configuration I needed. After testing several "big names" and a Behringer Eurorack, I opted for the latter because it was less expensive and offered better characteristics than the other brands.

 

My mixer works almost every day in my studio and also accompany me during concerts and after all that time it still has a perfect reliability record.

[Prague]

Just pretend, for a second, that this B******er company was instead Halliburton. The same practices and operation, but instead it was Halliburton. Plenty of people here would be very enthusiastic to boycott them.

 

Just because B******er's poor business ethics benefit a few musicians, it's still poor business ethics.

[Byrdman]

So does Haliburton own a substantial part of Behringer? I am not following why we should pretend Behringer is Haliburton.

[BP3]

Didn't you know that Cheney is Be*&^%inger?

[Omar Awapara]

Originally posted by Prague:

Just pretend, for a second, that this B******er company was instead Halliburton. The same practices and operation, but instead it was Halliburton. Plenty of people here would be very enthusiastic to boycott them.

 

Just because B******er's poor business ethics benefit a few musicians, it's still poor business ethics.

Can you give a concrete example of bad business ethics? And why would you make such an asociation of Behringer with Halliburton, I mean, what possible operations and practices can they have in common?????

[Prague]

I'm just saying that bad business ethics get overlooked when they may benefit ourselves.

 

If no one here understands my corollary, there are plenty of people that do.

[Krakit]

Originally posted by Prague:

I'm just saying that bad business ethics get overlooked when they may benefit ourselves.

 

If no one here understands my corollary, there are plenty of people that do.

I apologize, but count me among those that don't.

 

Carl

[zeronyne]

What Prague is saying is that musicians have no problem criticizing the ethics of large,monolithic companies like Halliburton (or Marlboro/Nabisco or Enron)because there is no direct advantage to NOT doing so nor is there rationalization necessary on the part of the defender. The assertion seems pretty clear to me.

 

I don't agree, however. As I said above, the ripping off of branding is fairly clearcut, and almost all music companies from Peavey to Paul Reed Smith have been in litigation over some sort of infringement since their inception. But as I said, it's a matter of degrees. I completely support someone's intention to boycott a company based on their business ethics (I'm doing it myself right now with Monster), but I think we need to know what is or isn't hearsay before making blanket statements.

 

Prague is right that just because Behringer charges less money for their products, it does not give them an ethical or legal pass (regardless of what Uli says), nor does any other company's bad behavior excuse theirs.

 

So I'll ask again. Where are all these IP theft lawsuits?

[Magpel]

I've now seen the Behringer/Haliburton comparison in two forums and am convinced that it is a veiled defense of Haliburton more than knock on Behringer. Just a conservative meme making its rounds...

[zeronyne]

Originally posted by Magpel:

I've now seen the Behringer/Haliburton comparison in two forums and am convinced that it is a veiled defense of Haliburton more than knock on Behringer. Just a conservative meme making its rounds...

[JMcS]

Go into any office supply store and look at the ink jet printers or even the document feeders and sorters on copiers. You will see that there are quite a few similarities among brands. Many of the "manufacturers" of these items buy the basic guts of the unit from one company and put their own covers on it. They may change the ink cartridge holder/ink cartridge to protect their aftermarket business but that is about it.

 

I don't know, but it is possible that Behringer is the basic manufacturer for many of these items and the other companies either just rebrand them or have some small changes made in their version. Maybe they all buy them from some behind the scenes Chinese company.

[Dave Bryce]

Behringer definitely directly knocks products off. I mean - look at the stuff...they don't really make much of a secret about it, do they?

 

So what?

 

Knock off products have been around forever. How many guitar companies make strat copies? Do any of you get ticked off at Native Instruments for making the Pro 53? They didn't ask Dave Smith's permission, and he doesn't get paid a dime for it...

 

As far as lawsuits go...there's a serious bottom line - they're very expensive for both sides (which pretty much prevents smaller companies from engaging in them), and you can never be totally sure of the outcome...so sometimes it's just more cost effective to hope that a lesser expensive knock-off won't sell because it'll be perceived as being not as good as the original, and in doing so will draw more attention to the original version in the process.

 

Bottom line, of course, is that you should vote with your dollar. If you have a problem with the way they do business, don't buy their stuff. Pretty simple...but you should know that they move a ton of product, so the market is telling them strongly that what they do is a good thing.

 

dB

[meccajay]

Nutshelled it db! Why folks are so uptight about this company, I'll never know...

 

Yeah I had a cheapo set of behringer headphones go out after 2 weeks, but at $12 I knew what I was geting myself into. Ive also had a Behringer mixer for 6-7 years used for studio and live, and NEVER had a problem.

 

So, about those amps..anyone tried?

[Prague]

Originally posted by Magpel:

I've now seen the Behringer/Haliburton comparison in two forums and am convinced that it is a veiled defense of Haliburton more than knock on Behringer. Just a conservative meme making its rounds...

Really? Your misinformed. Of course, you can simply ask me as I made the post.

 

Better yet, disregard everything I post. Especially when it comes to any technical info. I really don't care if you believe me or not.

 

Zeronyne has understood my point correctly. Many times people overlook ethics if it saves them $50.

[K K]

Oh yeah, ethics... By the way, anyone here paid 100% of the software installed on their computers? Nobody is in possession of a MP3 file, which actually is poor ethics because you are preventing an artist to sell a CD just to save yourself 15$?

 

Anyway... Back to the thread's starter question : anyone tried those amps?

[Magpel]

Originally posted by Prague:

Really? Your misinformed. Of course, you can simply ask me as I made the post.

 

Better yet, disregard everything I post. Especially when it comes to any technical info. I really don't care if you believe me or not.

 

Zeronyne has understood my point correctly. Many times people overlook ethics if it saves them $50.

That point is clear enough. Principles, as they say, are only meaningful when they're incovenient. I agree with this.

 

As to the Haliburton comparison, it still strikes me as a veiled jab at the "selective principles of liberals," or whatever, though of course I could be misreading you. The other time I saw the same connection made, the political bias was much more overt.

 

I do not believe it is possible to live in perfect accordance with one's ideals and principles. The minute you walk into a WalMart, you are implicated in corporate corruption and child exploitation, etc. You'd have to get pretty damn far away from everything to be clean. Still, this is a terrible argument for abandoning principles alltogether, isn't it? So we are all per force somewhat selective in our application of principles. Otherwise it would be hard to justify buying a gallon of gas...

 

And if you're wodering which corruption I find worthy of fighting--Haliburton's undue influence in Washington or Uli's knockoffs--sorry, dude, I'll take Haliburton everytime. To imply that they are on the same order of malfeasance and corruption is specious and/or crazy.

 

None of which is to say that I agree with the theft of propietary designs and technology, if Behringer is indeed guilty of this.

[david.edwards8]

I bought a K3000FX a few weeks ago - I wan't aware of the reliability reputation. So far so good, the sound is great and the stereo XLR outs (with ground lift) are a god send. Ask me in a year if I'm still happy :-)

 

By the way a friend of mine has a similar sized Hartke keyboard combo (don't know the model) and he's had no end of problems with the tweeter blowing.

[NYKeys]

Noooo Not the B word ...... RUN!~!~!

[Bluzkeys]

I have been using the K3000FX for nearly two months now. It is used frequently and is getting the usual knockaround going in and out of the equipment trailer.

So far so good. Sounds great. Doesn't color my tone.

 

I couldn't care less about the knockoff thing. Look at the clothing industry, computer industry, the list is endless. My main concern is value for my dollar and how cheap can I get it.

 

The K3000FX was super affordable and, at this point, a realiable and welcome piece of equipment.

 

-Bill

[Omar Awapara]

david.edwards8 and bluzkeys:

 

You both have the same K3000 ultratone amps. How would you describe the piano sound through them? Usually piano is the most difficult sound to get a good quality from in a keyboard amp.

[Bluzkeys]

Originally posted by Omar Awapara:

david.edwards8 and bluzkeys:

 

You both have the same K3000 ultratone amps. How would you describe the piano sound through them? Usually piano is the most difficult sound to get a good quality from in a keyboard amp.

I think that this is a matter of personal taste but, for me, I play in a 7-piece horn band so I need my piano bright. The 7-band graphic EQ allows me to brighten it to meet my needs. I guess I'm saying that I have no complaints.

 

For the past 12 years before the K3000FX I used a Peavey KB300. It was a workhorse but one complaint that I always had with it was the way to seemed to squash the tone. I don't seem to have that problem with the Behringer.

 

-Bill

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Bluzkeys:

My main concern is value for my dollar and how cheap can I get it.

I'm not going to debate this, and thanks for making a simple and honest statement like this.

 

I am one of the people that tries to be aware of the ethical aspects of companies from whom I purchase products. Unlike you, Bluzkeys, I will actually pay more for a product if buying the less expensive one means I am supporting a company whose ethics or affiliations go against my beliefs.

 

One such belief is the support of intellectual property rights, and some of the actions of this company we're discussing have bothered me. I don't evangelize against them nor try and dissuade anyone from buying their products. But personally, I do not and will not own anything made by them.

 

And that's everyone's personal decision to make. If you like their stuff and it's the right price and you're not bothered by the myriad of issues that have come up in relation to their product designs, then by all means, use them.

 

- Jeff

[Bluzkeys]

And that's everyone's personal decision to make. If you like their stuff and it's the right price and you're not bothered by the myriad of issues that have come up in relation to their product designs, then by all means, use them.

Thanks Jeff. This horse has been ridden to death in other threads. I think that you and I can agree that it is, as you stated, a personal decision to make.

 

Best to you.

[KenElevenShadows]

Originally posted by zeronyne:

Mackie\'s original lawsuit

 

Two years later, a settlement with Sam Ash

 

And a settlement with Behringer

 

The terms are confidential, so no one can do anything but guess what the outcome was with absolutely no basis in fact.

 

As far as these other claims, would truly like someone to come up with a link to the litigation. Obviously, the Roland pedal fiasco was a blatant attempt to cash in on the Boss iconic design scheme, but as I've always said, it's a matter of degrees here.

 

Behringer was successfully sued for patent infringement by Aphex also, for a design that looked identical both outside and inside (it was one of Aphex' compressors, but I can't remember which one, it's been so long ago).

 

They sell lots of stuff because it's cheap, and it (usually) works.

 

They have a bad reputation largely because they have been sued for patent infringement several times, are seemingly more crass and blatant about their theft than other companies, and don't apologize for it. There were some other rumors on rec.audio.pro some years ago about them using slave labor in China, but that to the best of my knowledge has never been substantiated. I asked a rep about that at a NAMM show, and he quickly said, "I will not comment on that."

 

So essentially it comes down to each consumer. Some people say, "So what? Everyone steals." Others say, "I don't care - it's my dollar, and I'm trying to save money." And others say, "Since they appear to be worse than others, I will not support them." And finally others say, "I care about the QC and audio quality of my equipment, and I won't buy their products."