Late starts...

[saturniidae_moth]

So, I'm 21 and I've decided that I'm really going to learn to play this keyboard instrument at a professional level. I have pretty basic skills now, but I'm practicing every day and I'm confident that I'll improve.

 

What this post is really about, though, stems from reading many musicians biographies on their web sites and such, and from reading on forums about people's experiences with learning an instrument. It seems like almost everyone started playing since childhood, and have had years of experience when reaching my age.

 

I'm really wondering if there are any piano players out there that started in their 20's or later, and if they can give any advice or encourgement for someone like me. I guess this thread is a little bit like asking for the carrot at the end of a stick, but I'm also geniunely curious to hear what kind of differences in the approach to playing and learning that adulthood brings.

[awfulgrace]

I did not really start playing keys in earnest until I was 25 (about 15-months ago). I'd plinked around on pianos and stuff before then, but nothing even resembling real playing.

 

I don't feel (at 21) that you're too late for anything really (save maybe being a ballerina or figure skater), but certainly not too late to pick up the keys.

 

While I would definitely not consider myself an accomplished keyboard player, I do currently play keys in 3 gigging bands (2 of which I was approached to join after they saw me play live) - and am able to hold down my parts.

 

I've been a drummer for 13 years and came to the keys out of necessity. I was recording pre-production for my bands record, and in the process I would hear things in my head that I wanted handled by keyboards.

 

So - I found the chord/scale dictionary on http://www.looknohands.com and would write out note for note the parts I wanted to hear. The intention was to have someone come in and cut them, but I ended up spending hours-upon-hours-upon-hours just running through the music I'd written at VERY slow speeds over and over again until I could play it. It was really simple stuff, but it was very difficult for me at the time.

 

So - I'd be in my apartment, headphones-on, playing the same simple piano part over-and-over for 5-6 (sometimes 7) hours a day, every day. Then after a while, I began printing out scales from the web and I'd just run them up-and-down nonstop until they were burned into my skull. I just couldn't wait to get home from work and sit for hours at my little PSR-630. I got bit by the keyboard bug - HARD.

 

 

In terms of technique, I think I've got alot of bad habits from teaching myself that will make it harder for me to get to the next level - so I would like to go to a piano instructer.

 

So, in short - yes it is definitely possible at your age - and as with ALL things in life it takes dedication and practice.

[Joe Muscara]

I started while I was in college, and if I had practiced as much as I should have all these years, I'd be really frickin' good by now. Instead, when I'm lucky, I show some hints of ability.

 

Go practice!

[HomeAmateur]

I always felt, and still sort of do, the same way about starting late. It seems every 'success story' Ive ever read always seems to start with something like " Well I had my first gig at 9yrs old" or some very young age like that.

 

I grew up in a VERY non musicaly talented family. Ive always been very into music since a very young age and am told that I used to stand in front of the TV and sing trying to get everyones attention. However my family never introduced me to any sort of musical lessons of any sort.

 

Im 37 now and have been tinkering around with keyboards for quite a few years but never putting enough practice time in to really be able to play. I wish I had started at a very young age and was a well established musician now.

 

Ive had pro equiptment in the past but have gotten frustrated with the "feeling like I suck and Im too old to even bother any more feeling" and have sold it all. Ive done this a couple of times.

 

Anyways, Im starting to get much more serious about practicing now and am rounding up some very decent equiptment to practice on. Im not so sure I want to be a 'rock start' anymore. But writing the next hit for some artist and getting a check in the mail I would consider quite the success. Id also like to enter the 'playing-out' world as well, down the road a bit more when my chops become flawless.

 

My overall point I guess would be it doenst matter how old you are. I think the more important factor is that you at least try. If you never at least try something in this life you'll never know what would of become of it. I would much rather try and see how far Ill go rather then give up and REGRET it later in life that I didnt even try.

 

This time around no matter how 'down' I may get Im NOT giving up.

[Michelle ggurl]

Hi Saturn, I started playing instruments as a kid, but it seems to me 21 is not "too late." I think "too late" only comes into play for something like music when adult responsibilities take the time you need for practicing. Work, family, rent/mortgages, etc take more precedence oftentimes as we get older, so there's less time to practice. And, if you're trying to "make up for lost time" or whatever, you want to spend more time practicing, not less ... so that can be frustrating.

 

But as long as you have the time to put into it, even incrementally, you'll see improvement. I know one guy who didn't start playing guitar till he was 17; he ended up playing with Herbie Hancock and has released a number of jazz records both independently and on labels.

 

I myself have gone thru times where I spent a lot of time "woodshedding" to up my abilities as an adult. Sometimes I wonder if it's "too late" to get to the next level, and I have to decide where to focus my energies. I am not necessarily happy with where I am, but I do enjoy the journey often enough ... and I try to keep in perspective what my strengths are.

 

Also, as an aside, I kind of relate to your dilemma because of something that happened to me: in my mid-20s I got injured (repetitive strain) so bad I could barely do life tasks like brushing my teeth or combing my hair. Obviously, playing was OUT.

 

I was unable to play for 5 years. In some ways, when I came back it was like starting all over. I had the musical knowledge still, but in terms of technique and muscle control I was a total mess. Maybe that's some strange consolation.

 

Anyway, good luck with it! If you enjoy it and can spend the time on it, you'll be able to improve and find play to be rewarding, I think.

 

Cheers,

 

gg

[Joe Muscara]

Oh yeah, I've never met, read about, nor heard of a single musician who is as good as they want to be. There is always the next level or something else to shoot for. Even from players who are just astounding, there's some challenge they are working on.

 

(that's the key - they work on it!)

 

And those stories that talk about them starting when they were five or whatever, I think writers like that stuff because it gives them an angle about how precocious the player was. If you look, you'll also see articles about the next player where they say that they didn't start until they were 21, but look at all they've done! Yeah yeah yeah. Either way, it's an angle for the writer. (Not that it's terrible, just trying to give some perspective.)

 

My encouragement to you and anyone else is that you Have Fun and Be Happy. If overall, playing keyboards does this for you, then that should be all the reason you need, and the rest will come.

 

I can't say what's different about learning as an adult vs. as a child, except like geekgurl said, the trick as an adult is juggling your other responsibilities like the mortgage, whereas kids don't have that.

[stoo schultz]

Some good advice here, maybe a long time teacher can chime in too.

 

I would just add that it might be worth making the distinction between being an artist versus being a craftsman. It doesn't take a whole lot of technical ability to be creative and write great music. You can be a productive and respected artist regardless of how many years you've been practicing.

 

But as far as being a technically proficient craftsman is concerned, most of your competitors will have a good 10 years head start on you. If you want to be competitive with them, you'll be best served by a good classical teacher and by approaching this as a serious long-term process.

 

In either case, it certainly is possible, and there are many folks who have done the work and succeeded.

[BluesKeys]

I second Stoo. Sort of ... get a good teacher. But you might want one who teaches several styles to help keep your interest.

 

A teacher will keep you from developing bad habits that can lead to many problems including muscle strain.

 

I think adults can learn, but sometimes our expectations are too high. Remember you have to crawl before you can walk.

[RABid]

I think I get better every year and made some nice imprivements in my 30's. If you are just 21 you still have plenty of time to develop as a craftsman and evolve to an artist.

 

Robert

[Byrdman]

Its just a youth cult thing. Its far more likely to tell you wen someone started playing if they started young, whereas if they started later it will remain silent.

 

I started young but did not pick it back up until I was 45 and did not get seriously back into it till I was almost 50. When I started back in I sucked but now I am actually ok. (read suck's less often )

 

So 21 is not too late to start. In some ways you have an advantage because when you start real young you don't question anything anyone tells you and if its wrong it can be very damaging. So really what you are seeing is "some players found really excellent teachers when they started" since almost everyone else dropped out.

[synthizen2]

Just remember, Wes Montgomery did not even start playing guitar until he was 26, and look how good he got! It's NEVER too late.

[Michelle ggurl]

Originally posted by synthizen2:

Just remember, Wes Montgomery did not even start playing guitar until he was 26, and look how good he got! It's NEVER too late.

Huh, I didn't know that!

 

Oh yeah, and just to clarify, my injury was not from playing; it was from computer use. Stoo's and BluesKeys advice about a teacher to at least get you started is good, because then you'll at least avoid some bad habits that can cause physical problems later. I credit my formal training with the fact that, if I have a flare-up of pain now, playing actually helps relieve it.

[stoo schultz]

Wes Montgomery couldn't read music either. Just shows you that nothing can get in the way of native talent and determination

[HomeAmateur]

One of my own 'sayings' is "never underestimate the power of determination".

[Jessica T]

Hey Saturn, I'm in the same boat as you! I will be 21 this coming March and I've only been playing for a year. I too had a quite "un-musical" family. They enjoyed listening to a variety of styles, but nobody ever played anything. I'd never even touched an instrument before last February. I spent a year studying theory and kind of floundering until I was done with school, and now, I had my first lesson last week! My teacher is having to fill in some of the gaps and retrain me a bit, but thank goodness I came to him when I did!

My advice to you is just to enjoy the ride. Don't have expectations that are so high that you feel discouraged, but give yourself some goals and incentive to keep you going. It can be challenging when it seems that you aren't making much progress at all when you're really taking small steps. I quote my teacher in saying, "Don't look at the big picture, or you'll never do it." and "No matter what happens, just keep playing." Have fun, be happy and don't stress out. Good luck on your musical journey.

[Mike Davis]

Originally posted by Byrdman:

So 21 is not too late to start. In some ways you have an advantage because when you start real young you don't question anything anyone tells you and if its wrong it can be very damaging. So really what you are seeing is "some players found really excellent teachers when they started" since almost everyone else dropped out.

What a great insight!

[Michelle ggurl]

Originally posted by stoo schultz:

Just shows you that nothing can get in the way of native talent and determination

Huh, maybe there's hope for me after all!

[Joan]

I think I would be akin to what golfers call a "hack."

 

I also played at an early age, continued through my teens, and then life at 18 interrupted the playing. I did not start up again until I was 43. So, according to my slide rule, I have been back playing 5 years.

 

homeAmature said it all:

I think the more important factor is that you at least try. If you never at least try something in this life you'll never know what would of become of it.

I am very glad I tried. And still trying. And trying. And trying.

Joan

[Bosendorphen]

Originally posted by saturniidae_moth:

I'm really wondering if there are any piano players out there that started in their 20's or later, and if they can give any advice or encourgement for someone like me.

As the others have said, it's never too late! The famous pianist Paderewski really didn't start proper practicing until he was 21 I believe and he had a great career (and later became Prime Minister of Poland). Hang in there!

[sudeep]

i only really started on the keys around 23/4 (however i had been playing guitar since i was about 12)...7 years later while im nothing compared to some of the players on this site...im playig in 2 bands, doing the occassional session and LOTS of writing!!!...people now do assume ive been playing all my life. I used to wish i started when i was 3 or 4 (my parents arent musical at all) but u know i have friends who did all their grades by the time they were 14 and now HATE the piano!!!so you never know!!! I genuinely believe anyone who truly loves music will start at the moment which is RIGHT for them!!!

 

i too was going to say the story about Wes Montomery. Bruce Hornsby didnt really take piano seriously till he was 18, and was it Red Garland who started at 21???

 

go for it...get a good teacher...maybe 2 x1/2 hr sessions a week (if you can)...1 session purely concentrating on technique and the other on stuff you want to play. Learn your theory too...i had a great guitar teacher and my harmonic knowledge literally saved me years when i started on the keys!

[BluesKeys]

Quote Stoo

Wes Montgomery couldn't read music either. Just shows you that nothing can get in the way of native talent and determination

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

That just reminded me of a funny but true saying I recently read.

 

"When you ernestly believe you can compensate for lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there is no end to what you can't do." author unknown

 

Get a teacher, have fun, music can bring an amazing amount of joy to your life. It also attracts women.... that can bring a bit of pain. You need balance.

[delirium]

it's only too late when you already dead

although someone can argue even on that.

 

but this is like with learning language, the earlier

you start the fastest you get it.

[yabbadabbadoo]

Originally posted by saturniidae_moth:

I'm also geniunely curious to hear what kind of differences in the approach to playing and learning that adulthood brings.

The hardest thing I've found is finding a decent teacher. I think, in part, that stems from the fact that most start at an early age.

 

I think when you're very young [ignoring prodigies] there's a better chance you'll hit upon a comfortable playing style or just give in. Unless you're very lucky and get a decent teacher from day one.

 

For me, most of the gubbins that the "yellow pages" teachers are hoping to teach - reading music, where middle c is, how to play 3 blind mice , how to sit still and not push smarties into the gaps between the keys and so on, I can do.

 

Where I struggle is this mystical "correct movements" thing and perhaps ear development. I can hear how bad I am when I record it, it's less obvious when I'm playing, but the latter is easily solved in the interim by recording it. The former is something that no amount of words will replace a demonstration, but finding someone to demonstrate is the tricky part.

 

As for age and achievement it depends what you want to play and to what standard you will be happy with.

 

You aren't likely to be Hamelin, certainly not in the sense of having a concert pianist career.

 

OTOH, not many that started at 3 are either - don't forget that. When you're looking at the famous people that started when they were very young, there are far, far more who did the same and got nowhere.

 

You might get a lot further than most that started at 6. It really boils down to whether, when you discover what piano / keyboard playing to the standard you want entails whether you are prepared and motivated to do that. Because there are myriad people who want to do something - fly a plane, climb everest, play the piano etc, but that's usually a romantic desire often without knowing what you have to do to actually do it, rather than a realistic goal.

 

If you have that realistic view, you're probably ahead of the 6yo whose parents are sending them because they want to play and the kids playing is the next best thing.

 

Encouragement? I can't say with any honesty that I started as an adult and presto hey, I can play really well today...not yet. But I wouldn't stop playing anyway, because it's relaxing and enjoyable irrespective of how good I'm actually getting - that's all the enouragement I need but I appreciate many would want more.