Piano Just Piano!

[hermanjoe]

Question:

 

If you had to pick one board that gave the best piano action and sound what would it be? Not rhodes, organ, clav, just piano.

[Marzzz]

Steinway?

[Carlito]

My choice would be one of the Yamaha Grand Touch pianos.Real Grand Piano action. To me, feel is more important than sound. My CP-70 doesn't have a good sound, still I spend more time practicing on it than on my other keyboards.

 

If I had the money and space, it would go for a 7'6 DC7PRO also from Yamaha.

 

For a portable piano, anything programmable from Roland or Yamaha, and expandable so I can install the next "ultimate" piano board they're gonna release six months from now and then again next year, and then again.....

[K.C.Lau]

hey Carlito,

 

I read your intro about your keyboard rig....

wow!! it is awesome ...!!!

I really love your idea of building a keyboard like this one!!

 

salute you!

[Dave Horne]

Carlito, I am glad that someone else mentioned the GranTouch from Yamaha. I just received an e-mail from a guy in the US who was looking for one and asked if I would consider selling mine. They were priced right and still can be bought in Europe.

 

For jobs, my choice would be a Yamaha P250 with the Roland RD700 in second place. (I never used the RD700 on an actual job, but it sounded great in a store through my headphones.)

[RudyS]

yeah dave,

 

I played the Roland as well, but don't you think the action on the Yamaha is far better than the Rd 700??

[Dave Horne]

Originally posted by Ohtar:

yeah dave,

 

I played the Roland as well, but don't you think the action on the Yamaha is far better than the Rd 700??

I didn't play them side by side but there was nothing lacking in the RD700 I played. If I had not bought the P250, I would have bought the RD700. I spent a fair amount of time playing two different RD700s and I would have bought one for jobs without hesitation.

[kad]

Originally posted by K.C.Lau:

hey Carlito,

 

I read your intro about your keyboard rig....

wow!! it is awesome ...!!!

I really love your idea of building a keyboard like this one!!

 

salute you!

Indeed!!! I've often thought about building something like this... I'm curious, how much does this monster weigh??

 

Kirk

[Carlito]

quote:

Originally posted by K.C.Lau:

hey Carlito,

 

I read your intro about your keyboard rig....

wow!! it is awesome ...!!!

I really love your idea of building a keyboard like this one!!

 

salute you!

 

Quote y Kad:

 

Indeed!!! I've often thought about building something like this... I'm curious, how much does this monster weigh??

 

Kirk

Thanks for the comments, guys. I couldn't find the little spec sheet I made for it. IIRC, it's 115 pounds, 46"X17" inches.

It's compact, but not very portable.With handles on both sides, two people could move it easily, and it's short enough to fit in any small car. I know it would look great onstage, but I never had a chance to try that.I haven't had a gig in years.

[MikeT156]

Hey Tom:

 

I'm curious if you're asking the question because you're not completely satisified with your Promega 3? Did you ever get the sound out of your sound system that does a reasonable facsimile of what you hear out of headphones when you listen to your Promega?

 

Mike T.

[hermanjoe]

Mike,

 

I guess I am just surveying people to see what they think. I do like the promega. The guys in my band do as well. I may be getting something else in the future depending on equiptment needs. Just wanted to see what all you guys thought.

 

Also I have been able to improve the sound by using a better pair of speakers and messing with the eq a bit more. My promega is out for repair right now so when I get it back I'll be able to know for sure if the sound issue is fixed

[88keys4me]

I narrowed my choice down to the RD700 and S90. I chose the latter for its slight but noticeable edge(IMO) in both responsiveness of the action and the sound. That, plus I have always had exceptional satisfaction with every Yamaha product I've owned, from musical instruments to outboard motors. Never, ever a problem.

[MikeT156]

Hey 88Keys4me:

 

If you haven't bought something yet, hold off until after Winter NAMM next month. There should be a new Roland RD770 out, and that may have improved piano samples with better sustain than the RD700. From what I understand, that the biggest complaint about the RD700. Even if you don't want to spring for the newer Roland, they RD700 would be at closeout prices and you could snap one up on the cheap. I don't know if Yamaha is going to bring out an updated S90 with the same DSP as the Motif ES, the S90 hasn't been out that long, but it would be worth waiting to see whats new. If you're set on an S90, I saw a used one advertised for 1215.00 on Music123. Sounds like a deal to me. Patience my friend.

 

Mike T.

[88keys4me]

Originally posted by MikeT156:

Hey 88Keys4me:

 

If you haven't bought something yet, hold off until after Winter NAMM next month. There should be a new Roland RD770 out, and that may have improved piano samples with better sustain than the RD700. From what I understand, that the biggest complaint about the RD700. Even if you don't want to spring for the newer Roland, they RD700 would be at closeout prices and you could snap one up on the cheap. I don't know if Yamaha is going to bring out an updated S90 with the same DSP as the Motif ES, the S90 hasn't been out that long, but it would be worth waiting to see whats new. If you're set on an S90, I saw a used one advertised for 1215.00 on Music123. Sounds like a deal to me. Patience my friend.

 

Mike T.

Mike, thanks for the suggestion. I bought my S90 earlier this year and have been lovin' it. Got it brand new (not B-stock) from an authorized Yamaha dealer for less than $1,600. So I'm livin' large But I do have a buddy who's in the market now, and will pass along the information. Happy holidays to you!

[Dave Pierce]

For pure feel and piano sounds, I like the Kurzweil PC2x. I came this close to buying one, but bought the RD-700 instead. But pure piano was not the the highest-weighted item in my selection criteria.

 

--Dave

[gangsu]

Originally posted by hermanjoe:

If you had to pick one board that gave the best piano action and sound what would it be?

Ask not what your keyboard can give to you, but rather what you can give to your keyboard . Give your head a shake while you're at it. [smilie]. It's one thing to chase a dream, it's another thing to wake up and live it.

 

Otherwise, possibly the Steinway.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by Dave Pierce:

For pure feel and piano sounds, I like the Kurzweil PC2x. I came this close to buying one, but bought the RD-700 instead. But pure piano was not the the highest-weighted item in my selection criteria.

 

--Dave

I have to add my two cents.

 

Ultra-realistic piano sounds were the most important factor in my selection of a board a few years ago. I chose the Kurzweil PC2X. I later added the polyphony option for 128 notes, and the orchestral and vintage keyboard ROMs.

 

There are lots of good-sounding pianos on the market and everyone has their favorite. After years of performing with this board, I still think it has the best piano sounds of any - especially for solo performances of classical and jazz.

 

Tom

[gangsu]

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

 

Ultra-realistic piano sounds were the most important factor in my selection of a board a few years ago. I chose the Kurzweil PC2X. I later added the polyphony option for 128 notes, and the orchestral and vintage keyboard ROMs.

 

There are lots of good-sounding pianos on the market and everyone has their favorite. After years of performing with this board, I still think it has the best piano sounds of any - especially for solo performances of classical and jazz.

 

Tom

Good post, Tom. That's the kind of attitude that will take you places! Who has more fun than you do.

Where have you been??

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by gangsu:

Originally posted by Is There Gas in the Car?:

 

Ultra-realistic piano sounds were the most important factor in my selection of a board a few years ago. I chose the Kurzweil PC2X. I later added the polyphony option for 128 notes, and the orchestral and vintage keyboard ROMs.

 

There are lots of good-sounding pianos on the market and everyone has their favorite. After years of performing with this board, I still think it has the best piano sounds of any - especially for solo performances of classical and jazz.

 

Tom

Good post, Tom. That's the kind of attitude that will take you places! Who has more fun than you do.

Where have you been??

Hi Sue. I was waiting for you to chime in! Whatcha been doing?

 

Yup. I like my Kurz. But I'll be honest, after putting all the money in the loads of equipment that we have to buy because we choose to play electronic keyboards, we BETTER like our choices, or learn to like them!

 

And I'll be honest some more... I've not heard the GEM Promega (your precious baby) or the Yamaha GranTouch that Dave Horne loves so much. So, I might be missing out on the best-sounding pianos on the market. (I'm certain you'll agree.) Perhaps I can get an invitation to visit you in Canada for a demo?

 

Tom

[MikeT156]

--------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by hermanjoe:

If you had to pick one board that gave the best piano action and sound what would it be?

--------------------------------------------------

And of course Gangsu replied:

 

Ask not what your keyboard can give to you, but rather what you can give to your keyboard . Give your head a shake while you're at it. [smilie]. It's one thing to chase a dream, it's another thing to wake up and live it.

 

Otherwise, possibly the Steinway.

--------------------------------------------------

Its best to try to make the best decision before you buy something, work with to get the most out of it. Even if you do find the "perfect" digital piano, someone will come out with one that's even better at some point. Learning to be satisfied with what we have is something we Americans have a difficult time with. Chasing those dreams can get to be darn expensive too!

 

Mike T.

[gangsu]

Originally posted by MikeT156:

And of course Gangsu replied:

Uh-oh, am I getting to be predictable? Well, a huge part of my delight with my keyboard is simply that it's mine. It's like Gas and his Kurz. There's no keyboard I'd rather hear him play, than his own. Or Carlito, he's miles ahead of all of us, he knew what he wanted and built the darn thing.

 

Hermanjoe appears to be in a constant state of flux. The way he flips gear makes my head spin. Do you need help spending your money, Tom? Perhaps I could help you out there.

 

dave horne, did you notice we were categorically linked? Oh my.

[MikeT156]

Don't worry Sue, its better to be predictable than flighty! Yeah our man Tom is in a constant state of Flux, always searching for something better. Sue there's no question you're an advocate of the Promega, but that shows you have good taste. Now, if you were preaching to everyone they should have a Casio, I'd be worried.

 

I tend to spend quite a bit of time deciding on something, but usually when I do, I end up pretty satisfied with what I bought. A lot of time we become disenchanted with a piece of gear when it may not be the fault of the board itself. If you're not hearing a sound coming from your PA that is almost identical with what you hear through your headphones, it sure isn't the headphone's fault! I was disenchanted with my sound system because I had an ancient EQ that colored the sound and basically sounded terrible. So I bought a new one, finally. What an improvement! You're system is only as good as your weakest link. Anyway, its a lot cheaper to buy an new EQ than a new AX.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike T.

[gangsu]

Mike, thanks for the kind words. You're making me laugh, but I'm not sure why.

 

Two things I'd like to say: Hermanjoe, remember the best defense is a good offense. Don't let me knock you around unless you secretly enjoy it. Even then, I wouldn't let on! And secondly, I have a new found tolerance and respect for Casio. Hey, I played somebody's brand new Suzuki electronic grand a couple days ago. There it stood in all it's shiny splendour. Did it sound very good? No. Rather like the tambourine Bopbeeper ascribed to the yamaha plugin. Could I play it? Not really very well, I found myself overshooting octave leaps which lead me to wonder if the keys arent minisculely smaller, and interestingly enough playing simple choral style, my left was consistently late! Weird. Must have been one of those graded actions. Was it functional? Well, yes. It allowed us to have a rehearsal in someone's home. Was it affordable? YES! With the bench and dozens of karaoke disks, CA$2500 at Cosco. Amazing. Would I buy it? nO. But what do I care.

 

And my point is? Who knows! I'm decorating the tree. And celebrating a birthday. Life is good.

[hermanjoe]

Hey all,

 

I have been absent from this thread I started because of a crazy schedule and a ton of work. Anyways I can't help but agree I AM in search always of a better sounding piano. I agree with the Steinway consideration but I was thiniking along the portable lines and keyboards. I guess the Promega has a steinway inside so that counts. Anyway, as I said I do like the promega I was just being curious as to what else people really enjoy playing at their gigs. Yamaha p250? or Motif es8? ect...

 

Alright then, back to work for me...

[marino]

Originally posted by hermanjoe:

 

If you had to pick one board that gave the best piano action and sound what would it be? Not rhodes, organ, clav, just piano.

Of course, a well-regulated grand.

 

If the choice is limited to electronic keyboards, the best action I've ever played is from the PPG PRK from the early eighties - they said the action was made by Steinway, and I have no difficulty in believing it. Unfortunately, it had a few software problems and it was discontinurd soon, so it's a really rare instrument.

 

Among today's boards, I'd choose one of the newer Yamaha actions (P250-90-120, I believe there are small differences, but I like them all). The Kawai action on the 9000 model is also excellent; for some reason, I prefer it over the newer 9500.

I also love the action on the GEM Pro Mega 3; it's a bit light for me, but very controllable.

 

Carlo

[MikeT156]

Tom:

 

I really don't know if you would be gaining anything over the Promega 3 with some of the other pianos that are out there right now. As you know, some players think the P250 piano samples are too "bright" and the KB action is too heavy. Others like it fine. I think the bright samples cut through with a band well, but jazz players that don't play loud want a more traditional Steinway piano sound. That's a must for a classical pianist. I would think the Promega 3 would handle those styles very well. The Motif ES8 has the same piano samples as the P250, but my understanding is the DSP handles the samples differently than the P250. The Motif ES doesn't support half pedaling and doesn't have the sympathetic string resonance. To me half pedaling is more important than the string resonance, some folks say they really can't notice it. The P250 is more of a portable Clavinova, and I've been reading of some problems with the way it functions as a MIDI controller and problems with master effects on layers.

 

The main difference I see between the piano samples on the MOTIF ES8 and the P250 is the sustain is longer on the P250, the sustain pedal feels like a piano sustain pedal and operates like one. The Motif ES8 pedal is an on/off pedal. You got to remember its a synth, not a dedicated piano. The advantage of it being a synth is you can change just about everything on a patch to your liking and just save it off to a user location. The P250 is somewhat limited in those capabilites. You might not be satisifed with the sustain length or the way the sustain pedal functions on the ES8,if you're looking for a no compromise piano. For me, there's "enough" sustain on the acoustic piano patches, and I don't have any problem using the sustain pedal the way it is. A pure pianist might not agree.

 

I apologize if this is all rehash, its seems like we covered all this ground before. Personally, I would work on the sound of the Promega to get what you hear from the headphones out of your sound system. As I mentioned in a previous post, I replaced my old EQ with a dual 31 band EQ and it makes a world of difference in my sound system, and the way the piano sounds. It can't change the mechanics of the MOTIF ES8, but it sounds so much better now.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike T.