Manufacturer Product Announcements

[Geoff Grace]

Originally posted by zeronyne:

Originally posted by Geoff Grace:

You could call them "Evolving ADAMs" and capture both the Darwinist and Creationist markets.

Or you could stick with Creationists and call it "Adam & Ev'"

I think Adam & Ev could adopt, but I don't think they could create.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[MikeT156]

It might not be a bad idea to take this thread a little more seriously. At some point, manufacturers (other than Dave) may read this and if you put in some realistic requests for what most players can really use, it might be a reality some day. Remember Yamaha's survey they did this summer? Smaller companies that don't have the resources to do surveys as Yamaha did might be interested in what you have to say if you stay focused.

 

I'm hoping for something out of DSI that I can afford and justify whatever the cost of it is. I don't know if a $2000.00 KB Poly is doable, because I don't have a clue what it costs to build. From some of the other players I discussed this with in passing, 2k seems to be the price barrier. I also mentioned to Dave about the Rack that people have been kicking around, and that may be more practical for both DSI and players. Pie in the sky scenerios would be dismissed, but realistic requests for something you would actually buy would be a good use of this thread.

 

Mike T.

[steadyb]

I'm just a little sad that Sir Basil didn't thank Apple or Emagic.

 

Ok, I'm over it now.

[capnzoot]

1) There is no such thing as "cost effective" poly pressure.

2) Smitty doesn't need to re-invent the T-8, please. Once was enough. Tweak with a fish weight (really) and the little opto-flags, again?

3) Why a poly-evolver with a keyboard when a cheap dedicated controller of your choice can be had, in synth fashion, way under $200?

4) Everything is Apple's fault.

5) Studio monitors and iPods are sexless.

6) NAMM buzz? Paint it a different color and re-release it.

[MikeT156]

Cap:

 

I can see you're going to be a smart ass Cap, but that's ok, you're entitled. I realize you can get a "cheap" controller for the POLY, but the small screen size on the POLY makes it a little bit more difficult to tweek live, although I realize you can control a lot of things from a good controller. Probably a rack based POLY would be a better option. You could get at all the parameters quickly for live use, and still use a cheap controller to keep the total cost down. There's a lot of competition out there in the 2k and under market. MacBeth is building a small analog moduluar synth, and there are a number of other mfg that are making racks and probably more to come. (Motif ES rack?).

 

What do you mean once was enough with the T8? Nice board, and people still crave the P5.

 

Mike T.

[steadyb]

7) Everything is really Comcast's fault.

[I I mjrn]

I know it's not my place to comment on the nature of much posted here since I'm hardly expert on a wide range of tech matters but it seems a bit odd to me so far in some respects.

 

Is this a place where manufacturers are likely to come to look for miscellaneous suggestions or questions? Perhaps those could best be addressed directly to the company in question.

Also it seems to already be falling prey to something I wondered about on the "No Sale Zone" thread, namely how to control "crosstalk" between different subjects, etc.

Having witnessed how difficult it can be to follow even serious discussions on the Guitar forum "Ask Myles" & LowDown Forum "Music Theory" threads, I don't look forward to trying to catch all relevant info here if it's too wide-ranging or lacking in focus...

I'd think that while comraderie is a great aspect of the MP forums, this spot might call for a more disciplined approach.

[Please address "What a drip!" comments to me PM or in the soon-to-be-openned "Who the heck's he?" thread.]

[Geoff Grace]

Originally posted by MikeT156:

It might not be a bad idea to take this thread a little more seriously. At some point, manufacturers (other than Dave) may read this and if you put in some realistic requests for what most players can really use, it might be a reality some day. Remember Yamaha's survey they did this summer? Smaller companies that don't have the resources to do surveys as Yamaha did might be interested in what you have to say if you stay focused.

Of course, you're right Mike. I respect the needs of those who take this seriously, and I apologize for joking around.

 

FWIW, I am actually planning to buy both a Poly Evolver and a pair of ADAM S3As when needs require and finances allow; but as things stand, they both suit me fine in their present forms.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[MikeT156]

Thanks Jeff. Poly is nice, and rack might be easier to get at all the options available with the current model. We'll see what NAMM brings.

 

Mike T.

[steadyb]

Originally posted by Squids:

Oh, I did want to make an announcement about a group buy deal we're having right now but the manufacturer's announcement thread has no actual announcements from manufacturers and has already been sabatoged by people who probably DON'T want to hear from manufacturers. That makes it kind of useless but if no one else cares to do anything about it being that uninviting then it really doesn't matter I guess. Oh well.

 

Thanks if you were open minded to what I have to say about it even though it is different.

Squids (Aka: Dave from Sonic Reality), since you were the one who started all this by the fact that most of your posts are some kind of announcement of your products you have for sale, the least you could do is contribute a post or two to the thread that was created mostly due to your complaining.

 

The thread hasn't been sabotaged, just ignored thus far by the guy who whined it into existence... you.

 

If you've actually got something to announce, then do it already.

 

This is the thread for it.

[steadyb]

By the way Dave, I think your sounds are excellent.

 

I just don't think your approach on this matter has been.

[cnegrad]

And what sounds would that be? Got a url?

[Reverend Rhythm]

sonicreality.com

esoundz.com

[clusterchord]

dB, about PolyEvolver Keyboard suggestions for polyphony and UI, if i may:

 

four octave keyboard is enough - decent keybed, at least better than Nords.

 

knob per function is overkill and waste of money. i really dig G2 approach - have 10 maybe 12 nice knobs or endless rotaries, where you carefully assign all parameters in groups of 10. for example first group could be cutoff and resonance for both filters, filt env ammount, attack, decay..

 

or better yet let the user freedom to make his own 'personalized' sets of 10 parameters

 

a bit larger display - no graphic yet, but lot more characters. jump to coresponding page/param when touching knob - like A6 has.

 

polyphony - at least six, preferably eight. I know P5 was and is a legend, but five must be the most impractical polyphony ever. you can't even switch between two 3-part chords without cutting voice release. you gotta have even number for voices. six is mucho better. eight is ideal.

 

its dimensions should be somewhat like pro-one but longer - tilted knob board. sexy. design is helluva important for a new synth. could you imagine Nords looking like Roland XP series? for polyevolver keyboard to succeed it must appeal to much more people than our forum community.

 

USB perhaps - for MIDI and cc/sysex editing commands. not really necessary but could be nice.

 

street price for six voice could be $1900-2000, or eight voice $2200-2300. i'm saying ideally, i dunno if this price point is physically possible at all..

 

my $0.02

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by clusterchord:

dB, about PolyEvolver Keyboard suggestions for polyphony and UI, if i may:

Delighted to get your input, brother Tom...

 

knob per function is overkill and waste of money.

This coming from an Andromeda owner?

 

polyphony - at least six, preferably eight. I know P5 was and is a legend, but five must be the most impractical polyphony ever.

You know, I asked Dave why he did five voices in the P5...he said he did it just to be different.

 

Ya gotta love the guy...

 

you gotta have even number for voices. six is mucho better. eight is ideal.

Yeah, but at what price?

 

If we were to do a keyboard, wouldn't the most important thing be making it affordable? Especially when you take this into account:

 

All Evolver voices are actually discrete monophonic Evolvers...so, since a four-voice Poly rack is $1495 MSRP, then an eight voice unit with keys, knobs etc. would probably need to cost cost between $3-$4k, right? That's a lotta coin to lay out...

 

You said :

 

street price for six voice could be $1900-2000, or eight voice $2200-2300. i'm saying ideally, i dunno if this price point is physically possible at all.

As you can see above, it's not, really.

 

Now, let's factor in this:

 

The Polys are chainable - not just the MIDI/voice chaining aspect, they also have audio thru jacks so you can cascade their audio as well so that you don't need two new mixer inputs every time you add a unit.

 

The above points being true, if we were going to do a keyboard, wouldn't it make more sense to make a unit with lesser polyphony so it'd be affordable; then, if someone wants more polyphony, they can just add as much as they want/need via Poly module expansion?

 

Then, the people who don't want lots of voices don't need to pay for it...

 

Does that sound like a sensible philosophy?

 

BTW - this doesn't really portend anything as far as a potential keyboard instrument from us goes - this is the same logic we used to determine the polyphony of the Poly rack. There are some folks who say that four voices on the rack is not enough...well, if they want an eight voice Poly Evolver, they can certainly have one for pretty much exactly what it would have cost if we had built a dedicated eight voice unit ourselves. Everybody wins...

 

dB

DSI

[MikeT156]

Edit: Dave, I was posting the same time you were, so I deleted what I wrote. Yep, it needs to be functional and affordable. Expansion for more voices later is a better option.

 

Mike T.

[clusterchord]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

knob per function is overkill and waste of money.

This coming from an Andromeda owner?

but of course, i'm nuts about lotsa knobs - i just meant, i'd be willing to work with a G2 style compromise if this would allow for some savings in the production, and eventually lead to more voices/per buck. altough, i haven't the slightest idea what percentage of synth cost usually goes on knobs, i trust it wasn't cheap on Andy? i was just guessing..

..Then, the people who don't want lots of voices don't need to pay for it...

 

Does that sound like a sensible philosophy?

yes definetely. but, you could also look at it this way, people who don't need more poly already have PE and EVO available. There's always a certain appeal of getting a new product that is somehow 'better' than what was before. maybe a six voice kbd with a few more knobs (reassignable) could be that something extra. either a six voice, or four voice with empty socket for another four voice expansion board ?? since each voice is discrete, dunno is this possible. Clavia and Waldorf did this, but it was easy - just adding more Motorolas.

 

at least in theory, this could provide both objectives: make initial model as affordable as it can be (a PE with small KBD and KNOBS), and leave the option for people who want more voices(and are willing to pay more) to do so. besides, and expansion board would surely come out costing a bit less than a full PE rack. and everything would still be in a single box.

[MikeT156]

Macbeth has a nice small modular design that sells for 1995 Sterling, no KB of course. I wonder just how much incorporating a good quality keybed into something along the lines of a MacBeth size wise (I don't know about the "old fashion" patch cable design)would end up costing? From what I've read, the ION costs between 100 to 200.00 to build. However, its not discreet circuitry, has a cheap keybed, and plastic ends caps. Wtth a quality KB, say 4 voice expandable POLY with somewhat less front panel controls, and a good user interface MIGHT put it in the price ball park, even with discreet circuitry.

 

The other consideration would be to skip the KB as CAP said, and just do a table top unit with adeqaute knobs and switches to get maximum control, and possibly a UI similar to the ION for additional parameters might kept the cost down enough to make it marketable and affordable.

 

I think that anything that sells for over 2k becomes a serious investment for a pro/semi pro player. Whether DSI can build something we can afford to buy and he can make profitably is the key. It might be we're trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole analog synth.

 

Mike T.

[Squids]

Originally posted by steadyb:

Originally posted by Squids:

Oh, I did want to make an announcement about a group buy deal we're having right now but the manufacturer's announcement thread has no actual announcements from manufacturers and has already been sabatoged by people who probably DON'T want to hear from manufacturers. That makes it kind of useless but if no one else cares to do anything about it being that uninviting then it really doesn't matter I guess. Oh well.

 

Thanks if you were open minded to what I have to say about it even though it is different.

Squids (Aka: Dave from Sonic Reality), since you were the one who started all this by the fact that most of your posts are some kind of announcement of your products you have for sale, the least you could do is contribute a post or two to the thread that was created mostly due to your complaining.

 

The thread hasn't been sabotaged, just ignored thus far by the guy who whined it into existence... you.

 

If you've actually got something to announce, then do it already.

 

This is the thread for it.

ok. But, thanks for the compliment about our sounds in your next post.

 

Incidentally, not all of my posts are announcements about our sounds. I've talked about music, gigs, other products and have had a lot of nice discussions here with people. If that was never the case I wouldn't even still be around. I also enjoy reading many of your posts Steadyb. I don't dislike this forum. I just feel like it's only part of the big Keyboard magazine picture that's all. But, I've already said that a million times so... you get the point!

 

here check this out:

 

(URL deleted by moderator)

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Squids:

here check this out:

 

Hey, Dave -

 

What's your relationship with esoundz?

 

dB

[Squids]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Originally posted by Squids:

here check this out:

 

Hey, Dave -

 

What's your relationship with esoundz?

 

dB

Sonic Reality started esoundz in 2001 to have an outlet for sound products, particularly ones that didn't have distribution or any retail outlet. Since then some investment partners who wanted to turn it into a full retail web store centered around sounds helped it be what is is today. We share resources which makes it possible for myself and other Sonic Reality people to help with esoundz customer service and to ensure that people get the correct information about SR and related products (such as the samplers we support, which is most of them).

 

BTW, thanks for the last comments you made in the other thread DB. Also, mojazz made a good point too. I guess I am talking about more casual announcements like the two I just made as opposed to full on PRs... which by the way I don't get to do so much because we have distributors that do them and they are usually more "official" big announcements... I might like to say I did a demo or posted a list or something but... I won't be doing that here unless someone else wants to bring it up I guess. Maybe someone who sees it on KVR will kindly share with others since I can't.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Squids:

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Originally posted by Squids:

here check this out:

 

Hey, Dave -

 

What's your relationship with esoundz?

Sonic Reality started esoundz in 2001 to have an outlet for sound products, particularly ones that didn't have distribution or any retail outlet.

Looking at the site, it seems as if only Sonic Reality's sound sets are offered there, and the only other software that I can find is the IK Multimedia stuff. Am I missing something?

 

Do either of those companies not have distribution or any retail outlet?

 

Since then some investment partners who wanted to turn it into a full retail web store centered around sounds helped it be what is is today. We share resources which makes it possible for myself and other Sonic Reality people to help with esoundz customer service and to ensure that people get the correct information about SR and related products (such as the samplers we support, which is most of them).

So that means that not only are you the manufacturer, but you're also the retailer? Don't you think that it's as important to disclose that information as it is to disclose that you're the manufacturer of the sounds in question?

 

Your signature clearly states:

 

Aka: Dave from Sonic Reality

http://www.sonicreality.com

 

Why doesn't it contain the esoundz information?

 

This is a bit odd, Dave, and it puts me in a very uncomfortable position. It's one thing for you to post as a manufacturer, but if you are allowed to post stuff like this as a retailer, then why can't Sweetwater (or any other retailer who participates in this forum) post specials that they're having?

 

Was it not made clear in the other thread that solicitations by retailers are unwanted here? I'm sure that you understand why that has to be the case, right?

 

Have I mentioned that I hate having to be the forum police?

 

dB

[Squids]

I don't have that in my signature because I am not here representing esoundz. I also don't list all of the companies we work with either which are quite a few.

 

As a manufacturer, Sonic Reality made a custom product that is a drum library/module for only a limited time availability and there's an exclusive group buy on that SR product that is only available on esoundz.com. So, if someone wants to hear about it that is the only way they can know about it. The group buy thread on the Quantum Leap Orchestral Gold is exclusively on Sounds On Line. That is East West's on line outlet for sounds. They also sell other some company's products too. It's pretty similar in fact.

 

I guess the thing for me is to just speak when someone brings it up. It seems the only way to fit in with your rules. So, that's what I'll do if I am going to post here.

 

As for wondering which products don't have distribution, OmniSoundz and Sonic Station as well as other sound products and certain custom products that have come and gone over the years did not. Plus, it can be tough going on sound sales and the only way to stick around for this long is to have an outlet that you know will represent every last important detail about your products.

 

So, that's all I want to say. If you have a problem with it then go ahead and delete it then. Do what you feel you must. I will as well.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Squids:

I don't have that in my signature because I am not here representing esoundz.

You're not? It appears to me as if you said a few posts back that Sonic Reality (your company, right?) started esoundz; and, while you did mention other investors, I didn't see you say anywhere that you're no longer affiliated with it.

 

You're also the one posting about the group buy through esoundz, right? So, how are you not representing them here?

 

If I've misunderstood this situation somehow, please feel free to clarify...

 

I also don't list all of the companies we work with either which are quite a few.

I'm unclear on this. As I understand it, you have more than just a working relationship with esoundz, don't you? Are you saying that you started the company, but now don't have any interest in it at all?

 

Do you "share resources" with all of the other companies with which you work?

 

I guess the thing for me is to just speak when someone brings it up. It seems the only way to fit in with your rules. So, that's what I'll do if I am going to post here.

I think that's best. News of your last group buy made it here without you having to post it...

 

If you have a problem with it then go ahead and delete it then. Do what you feel you must. I will as well.

Based on your answer, I don't see that I have any choice, Dave. We tried to find a way to make it work for you as a manufacturer, but I just can't see any way to make it work for you as a retailer without being unfair to any other retailer that wants to post special buy information here, not to mention all of the forum members who have clearly stated that they do not want to be pitched to by retailers here.

 

Sorry...we tried.

 

dB

[Squids]

Okay. eSoundz is to Sonic Reality as Sounds On Line is to East West. I hope that gives enough of an idea of what it is. Sound companies tend to have on line stores and some are more elaborate than others. I am still affiliated with it openly and part owner. I use the web info on my KVR sig because I represent SR and esoundz there and they also don't mind. Here, I know that people mind which is why I don't. However, the only way for me to announce the group buy on an SR manufactured product is to say where it is which happens to be the only place where it could be a transaction for us and that's esoundz. (Sonic Reality.com has no way of selling a product otherwise... a group "buy" is about selling a product)

 

If East West came on this manufacturer's thread to announce their EWQL Gold group buy exclusively available from soundsonline.com would they also get deleted? How is it different from Sweetwater? These companies are different than massive retailers of everything under the sun. It's heavily affiliated with the manufacturer.

 

But, anyway, it doesn't matter. I am tired of questioning your rules to you. As I said, to get out of any "hate to be police" situations I will just post as I normally do but just after someone else here invites it from their side. I'll do that until I hear that it's okay to just share information because it is perhaps not that big a deal after all. Either/or.

 

I think we should leave it at that. As I said before, I don't think we want to start comparing who has conflicts of interest in which ways because we both know that debate could get real ugly and we can predict what it would be like too. Let's spare ourselves anymore wasted time and energy here.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Squids:

If East West came on this manufacturer's thread to announce their EWQL Gold group buy exclusively available from soundsonline.com would they also get deleted?

Definitely.

 

As a matter of fact, they'd get deleted faster because (as far as I know) they're not participating members of this forum.

 

As I said, to get out of any "hate to be police" situations I will just post as I normally do but just after someone else here invites it from their side. I'll do that until I hear that it's okay to just share information because it is perhaps not that big a deal after all.

Thanks.

 

I think we should leave it at that. As I said before, I don't think we want to start comparing who has conflicts of interest in which ways because we both know that debate could get real ugly and we can predict what it would be like too. Let's spare ourselves anymore wasted time and energy here.

Again, thanks.

 

dB

[Array]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Originally posted by Squids:

If East West came on this manufacturer's thread to announce their EWQL Gold group buy exclusively available from soundsonline.com would they also get deleted?

Definitely.

 

As a matter of fact, they'd get deleted faster because (as far as I know) they're not participating members of this forum.

 

As I said, to get out of any "hate to be police" situations I will just post as I normally do but just after someone else here invites it from their side. I'll do that until I hear that it's okay to just share information because it is perhaps not that big a deal after all.

Thanks.

 

I think we should leave it at that. As I said before, I don't think we want to start comparing who has conflicts of interest in which ways because we both know that debate could get real ugly and we can predict what it would be like too. Let's spare ourselves anymore wasted time and energy here.

Again, thanks.

 

dB

Dave, please check your private messages.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Array:

Dave, please check your private messages.

Back atcha.

 

dB

[Markyboard]

Wo there young moderator (that's you DB). Before you close this thread let me anounce my company's special group buy:

 

Boeing Group Buy Special

 

1-10: $140,000,000

11-40: $160,000,000

50-250: $180,000,000

 

A problem you say? - Welcome to my world.

[steadyb]

Buy a Mac.