Help me figure this situation out!

[mound]

What would you all do in this situation? I'll try to recap this w/o rambling too much! I've been a bass player for 10 years or so. Since my last band broke up (an instrumental fusion trio), I was doing a lot of jamming bass/drums with this drummer friend, totally informal and lots of fun. I started studying classical piano over a year ago with a teacher and have been continuing jazz theory study on my own.) I'm not in this as a career, I'm doing it because I'm obsessed with learning. The drummer is in a pop/rock/groove band (all 3 chord songs in 4/4, simple cheezy but fun pop music with a hint of groove/improv "jamband") They lost their keyboard player, who didn't contribute much in the first place. Drummer asks me if I want to play keys with them (even though I've never played keys in a band before.) Thinking it'd be a good way to get some experience playing keys in a rock band, I decide sure, what the heck. Several months have gone by, a few gigs, some good, some not so good. There are several problems I have though.

 

1. The band is terribly unfocused.

 

2. The bass player lately has developed some kind of delusion of grandeur, and can't communicate. He's really not very good, about as good as one would get after 5 years of never practicing. He never trainwrecks or anything on stage, which is always good, he does lock with the drummer but he always over-plays. He doesn't practice at all, and says that until the rest of the band is blowing him away on stage (?@#$) he's not going to practice. "and what is there to practice anyway?" He gets defensive when anybody mentions to him that he should practice or get a teacher and has said that he simply doesn't have time. (which is valid, he has alot going on in his life.) He also believes the only reason to do this is to "get signed and play big stages", which, quite honestly with this band is laughable.

 

3. I'll admit I do have a bit more homework to put in to feel rock-solid on their tunes, and they are still getting used to a different sound, but my classical and jazz studies are my priorities. I practice 3 hours a day, but it's classical and jazz that I'm practicing. Which isn't really applying to this simple rock music, they want me to keep it very simple, and so I try to. They say "don't be a pianist, be a keyboardist" which I guess makes sense in context.

 

4. I think the name of the band is stupid, but they all believe that the name is great, and supposedly everybody tells them that (I've never heard such comments but whatever..) They believe that it is established, and that there is a fan base other than their immediate circle of friends (none of those beliefs is really true, but I don't want to hurt their feelings by pointing that out, as it really doesn't matter as long as they're having fun) and afterall, I still don't feel it's "my band" but they do feel that I'm every bit as much a part as them.

 

5. Every practice session forces me to subject my pink lungs to at least a pack's worth of second hand cigarette smoke, which leave me sick to my stomach with pain in my lungs when I get home, having to strip my clothes and throw them in the basement and leave my gear on the porch so my entire house doesn't stink..But who am I to tell 4 other guys not to chain smoke during practice? (in the unventilated practice space)

 

6. Everybody in the band is convinced that sooner than later, since I have much more experience in bands (first as a bass player) and tons more knowledge of theory than them, that I am going to be taking them in all new great directions with my keyboard playing as it develops. This may or may not materialize to be truth, but we'll see.

 

7. Lately, half the band doesn't show up to practices. The bass player being one of them, the lead guitar being the other, "car trouble" (which I guess has been an ongoing excuse for the entire 5 year existence of the band). As the newcomer, why should I be interested if they aren't?

 

Anyway - I'm finding more to be annoyed at with this whole situation than I am getting from it, but I know there will be hurt feelings if I bail on them. The drummer and the other guitar player (he's also the talented vocals) who are dedicated lately are also talking about this being a bad situation, but "the three of us could go on w/o them if we need to" The drummer even wants me to bring my bass and keys to the next practice, as he's pretty sure the bass player and guitar player won't show again. I'm not sure I even want to do anything with these two guys anymore as honestly it's distracting from my classical and jazz.

 

So, perfectly nice people, no personal issues with them at all. Musically, I am getting absolutely nothing from this situation except for a bit of practice rocking out my triad inversions and playing with various electric piano tones.. I don't want to let anybody down as they seem to be hoping that I'll be some kind of saving grace.. (well, the two who seem to care do at least.)

 

Geeze.. reading this back I think I've answered my own question but I'm curious of thoughts anyway.

 

(ps. I've cross posted this in keyboard and bass forum)

 

thanks!

[Dave Horne]

For starters, you'll just have to kill the bass player and make it look like an accident. For the rest, you know what you need to do.

[zeronyne]

Get out. Now. Do not even stop to think about it. Second hand smoke at practices and a bass player that thinks he's a gift from the gods? Why are you even hesitating?

 

Go! Be free! Run Forrest, Run!

[mound]

I guess the only reason is because I don't want to hurt my friends' feelings (the drummer)

 

you're right though..

[Song80s]

do you have any gigs ? If the band does, you should give them some notice. Tell them its not the right fit for you. They already know this anyway. Unless they are too self absorbed.

 

There isn't enough positive reason for you to hang on to this. Move on

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by zeronyne:

Get out. Now. Do not even stop to think about it. Second hand smoke at practices and a bass player that thinks he's a gift from the gods? Why are you even hesitating?

 

Go! Be free! Run Forrest, Run!

0-9 is right. What's in it for YOU? What about the future? Are their goals realistic? It sounds like you could spend your time in more productive ways. Don't let these guys bring you down. Believe it or not, there are some really good musicians who do have their act together and know where they want to go with their craft. Get out of this slacker band and use the time for your classical and jazz studies. If the group asks what happened simply tell them that you need more time for this. No hard feelings. Just get out. At a later date, try to find musicians who are more serious about their music. Life is short.

 

Good luck!

 

Tom

[Botch.]

I originally joined my current band about six years ago; I had about twenty years experience and two of them had 1-2 years, the third had NO experience in a band. I rehearsed with them for nine months, and finally bailed as we just weren't learning material fast enough.

You said "...but I know there will be hurt feelings if I bail on them." I felt exactly the same way, and was good friends with everyone in the band, but I just couldn't keep going.

My leaving them actually lit a bit of fire under them, and I heard them play about two years later. They had VERY much improved, and we eventually got back together again.

Six years ago I was easily the best musician in the band; now I'm just about at the bottom, and the fire's lit under me instead. I think this story may apply to your situation too, here it is for what its worth. Good luck, Mound.

[mound]

Yeah I hear what you all are saying.. No, there are no gigs booked.. They (see there, I never even refer to it as "we") tend to play 1 or 2 shows a month, pretty much at the same club.. This band, for all but me, has been their first musical experience. It's not even that they're bringing me down, it's just feeling like a waste of my time.

 

thanks!

-Paul

[Michelle ggurl]

Leave. But take the drummer with you in any future projects if you can. Hopefully you can gracefully bow out and keep the relationship with the drummer intact. He probably already knows this is going nowhere, especially if the bassist and guit. are slacking on even showing up. Where do you practice? If at the drummer's place or yours, you guys could easily start fresh ... new bassist/guitarist, new band name, new songs ...

[Dave Bryce]

I have a set of criteria that tells me clearly if I should be involved in a band/musical situation. I use the following indicators:

 

1) I love the music.

2) I can learn something/grow as a musician as a result of being involved in the project.

3) I'm getting well paid.

4) I'm doing a favor for a friend.

 

I need for at least two of those things to be true, otherwise I don't do it. The more of those things are true, the more I seek to be involved.

 

dB

[paully]

Moderator

Member # 7042

 

posted 09-28-2004 03:23 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a set of criteria that tells me clearly if I should be involved in a band/musical situation. I use the following indicators:

 

1) I love the music.

2) I can learn something/grow as a musician as a result of being involved in the project.

3) I'm getting well paid.

4) I'm doing a favor for a friend

========================================

 

If I might add...

5) and possibly the most important for a young musician(be honest folks): getting waffled! A couple nice, ripe groupies can make a bad situation work. If your still not satified, bail.

[mound]

1) I love the music.

2) I can learn something/grow as a musician as a result of being involved in the project.

3) I'm getting well paid.

4) I'm doing a favor for a friend.

yeah, at this point, only #4 is really true.

 

5) and possibly the most important for a young musician(be honest folks): getting waffled

hah! yeah, been there done that. I love my girl now

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by paully:

If I might add...

5) and possibly the most important for a young musician(be honest folks): getting waffled! A couple nice, ripe groupies can make a bad situation work.

Funny...but not necessarily true.

 

Unless it's incredible waffling, I've found that the shine comes off that apple pretty quick if the other factors in my equation aren't happening.

 

Originally posted by mound:

at this point, only #4 is really true.

You're outta there, bud...

 

dB

[marino]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

I have a set of criteria that tells me clearly if I should be involved in a band/musical situation. I use the following indicators:

 

1) I love the music.

2) I can learn something/grow as a musician as a result of being involved in the project.

3) I'm getting well paid.

4) I'm doing a favor for a friend.

 

I need for at least two of those things to be true, otherwise I don't do it. The more of those things are true, the more I seek to be involved.

 

dB

Telepathy...

I was about to post the same list of reasons, in the same order, using very similar words. Is this scary or not...

 

Mound, as a general advice, if I were you I wouldn't give up the bass - bass players are the most in demand musicians in bands. If you can double on keys, possibly playing synth bass too, it's a further plus. About your present situation, I'd say run away, fast.

[eric]

I totally agree with dB's list and would add two additional items that apply to a couple of things I do from time to time:

 

5) It is a fun gig, e.g. good food and drink

6) I have some "down time"

 

My main gig meets most of the criteria (other than favor for a friend and having down time) and I have a couple of other "pick-up" or "side" gigs that meet at least two of the criteria. I only invoke the "down time" criteria if I truly have a month off with no gigs and lacking home improvement diversions...then I'll go sit in with some bands that I like (meeting other criteria) but maybe don't pay as well.

 

Mound, for your situation - you should definitely cut your losses and distance yourself from this project.

 

Regards,

Eric

[Andre Lower]

It is a short life, Mound. If I do not get a kick out of it right away, I simply report it and leave, friends or not. And musicians tend to understand musicians. The people from the last band I bailed out on (2 years ago) are still good friends and even show support towards my current band, which reminds everybody that, after all, it is (or should be) all about being satisfied, right?

[Rockman59]

Geeze.. reading this back I think I've answered my own question but I'm curious of thoughts anyway.

_________________________________________________

This band is going nowhere....however you can use them to improve your keyboard skills until you can move on to a real band.

[Tusker]

One of the human motivators that ranks right up there is ... guilt. (And that's not always a bad thing.)

 

Thats you feel obliged for your friend is good. When you decide to move ... let me suggest that you come up with a project you can do together. (e.g. flesh out a demo for him) This will help you assuage any guilt you might have and it will also provide you a context to keep talking to him ... leaving the channels of communication open.

 

Jerry

[Reverend Rhythm]

I agree with Jerry... and all of the above. Guilt will cause resentment in the long run. I think you need to have a talk with your friend and then move on.

[mound]

Marino:

Mound, as a general advice, if I were you I wouldn't give up the bass - bass players are the most in demand musicians in bands. If you can double on keys, possibly playing synth bass too, it's a further plus. About your present situation, I'd say run away, fast.

Oh I haven't given up on bass, it's just that classical study on piano, and now jazz too has become an obsession.. it's the priority now, but I'll always be a bass player too! Too much history! I also have really begun to dig playing synth bass with my left hand, a split keys configuration, harmonizing with my right hand.. I think I'll have alot to offer as a keyboardist sooner rather than later if I keep studying/practicing like I have been. The bass is always on hand too though. I've become so much more interested in the bass playing from my left hand on a keyboard than I am in my bass playing on a bass. For some reason they are completely different beasts! I guess that's a good thing.

 

Well - anyway, I'm out. I laid everything out very clearly and compassionatly to the drummer, but rather than approaching it as a list of problems with them, I basically laid it out like "my musical goals lie elsewhere, and because of that, I'm not focusing on this band like I should be, which isn't fair to you guys, and so I'm a part of the problem, not a part of the solution."

 

No hard feelings, a bit of dissapointment perhaps, but whatever.. Perhaps the drummer and I will do something edgier in the future, but I told him I'm in "study mode" for a while. (he'll never be a jazz drummer, he's rock all the way) and of course if something else were to happen, I'd have to come right out and take a stand against the thick and constant second hand smoke thing.. I guess I got away without bringing that up.

 

thanks all

-Paul