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pete. pete. pete


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We've had the debate before. I say banned is banned. I could almost be talked into letting him in hhe hall, 'cause lord knows some of the other Gods in that Pantheon weren't no saints :freak: but he should never wear a uniform again.
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It's only a game, not a freakin' ethics contest. If he was truly one of the best in the game, he should be in the hall. Lots of unethical things happen in sports. Steroid use. Drug abuse. Rape. Crimes and coverups. Spousal abuse. Assault. Why Rose has to be singled out because he's not "Saint Peter" is beyond me.

 

It's only a game.

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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And gambling is an ADDICTION just like drugs or alcoholism. I think by that time it was not really a choice for him. He had to bet and baseball was just too close for his addiction to ignore. So despite his having the personality of a totally self centered but-hole, I think his stats are what counts. It is a baseball hall of fame.

 

Robert

This post edited for speling.
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Ok, here is my opinion:

 

gambling, is not wrong.

 

You are betting on winners and losers. If you win the bet, you win a prize: MONEY! PRINTED GREEN PAPER OR A FAT CHECK OR CREDIT!

 

What is SO WRONG about that?! I simply do not get it! Maybe I'm stupid, let's celebrate that then! But for the love of god what is so wrong?

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Put Pete in the Hall of Fame with a plaque that reflects his career achievements as a player, his time as a manager, his ban from the game and his gambling as documented by the Dowd Report. He should not be allowed to manage or participate in Major League Baseball in any way.
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Originally posted by Phait:

Ok, here is my opinion:

 

gambling, is not wrong.

 

You are betting on winners and losers. If you win the bet, you win a prize: MONEY! PRINTED GREEN PAPER OR A FAT CHECK OR CREDIT!

 

What is SO WRONG about that?! I simply do not get it! Maybe I'm stupid, let's celebrate that then! But for the love of god what is so wrong?

Gambling is not inherently wrong per se, but I'm sure you can understand the ramifications of gambling within a game where you have a modicum of control over what happens. Even though he claims never to have bet against the team he was managing, who knows? He also claimed for 14 years that he was innocent.

 

So his star pitcher is feeling bad that day, and he knows that if he puts him in, it will result in many runs for the other team. He calls his bookie, puts the pitcher in, makes a few bad decisions, and he wins. For a gambling addict, this is irresistable.

 

And that's the moral conflict here. I'm all for personal responsibility, but most gambling seems to target the people who can least afford to gamble: people with little expendable cash, desperate people, and people with addictive personalities. I've seen people lose their house, friends, family, jobs, and lives over gambling.

 

I could easily become a gambling addict. Everytime I'm in Vegas, I manage to inadvertantly pull at least one all-nighter at the blackjack table. And thank goodness that its such a pain to get in and out of Windsor, Canada. The saving grace for me is that I like the ambience of a swanky casino...I'd never go back to a casino boat or a dive to gamble.

 

Anyway, I say: Put him in the Hall of Fame, and let that be the closest he gets to a baseball for the rest of his life.

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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Originally posted by Dan South:

Should Kobe be left out of the basketball hall because he dorfed his concierge?

If he "dorfed" his concierge, he should not only get into the Hall of Fame...he should get a medal for pulling that off AND retaining his marriage.

 

But if he RAPED the concierge...I don't know. There is way more than a fine line between gambling and rape.

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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Pete Rose was too good to be left out of the hall. But there's no sign that he's ever stopped gambling, or that he feels that what he did was wrong, so there's no way he should be employed anywhere in baseball. Even if he only bet on his team to win, a game where he didn't place a bet is a clear sign. I was kind of receptive to his being fully reinstated, but I'm really suspicious of this play for sympathy he's making.
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In the hall, out of baseball.

 

I was a huge Pete Rose fan. This admission changes nothing about my opinion. The man was one of the greatest baseball players ever. Let his entrance into the hall be merited on that.

 

He also gambled on his own sport, perhaps on his own team. That is vile. The denial of it for all these years makes the matter worse. He has zero sympathy coming from me in that regard.

 

In the hall, out of baseball. It's the only thing that makes sense.

 

- Jeff

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Not only do the rules say you can't do it, but other people have done it, gotten caught, and been banned for life. Why is Pete any different? If baseball lets him back in, its saying that the rules are flexible, opening the door for anyone to bet on baseball.

 

What's disturbing to me is the reports that not only was he betting on baseball, but he was calling around the league talking to managers to inside scoops on pitchers and such. Not only that, but there is evidence that correlates his managing decisions to bets he had placed - using up his bullpen or hanging starters out to dry all based on what he had money on.

 

Even worse, he said the only reason he stopped betting on baseball wasn't because he ran out of money, but because he *ran out of bookies*. No one would take his bets because he owed so many people money. Not only is he a dirtbag baseball player/manager, but he's a dirtbag gambler.

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Talk about a coincidence - as I type this, I am listening to a live interview with Pete by Bill Cunningham at 700WLW in Cincinnati!! :)

 

The hall of fame honors the greatest players the game has ever known. Pete is the greatest hitter the game has ever known. He belongs in the hall of fame - PERIOD!!

 

By the way, did you know that Ty Cobb once pistol-whipped a man to death?!?!

 

Kirk

Reality is like the sun - you can block it out for a time but it ain't goin' away...
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Originally posted by b3keys:

The rules of the game state that you cannot gamble on baseball. Plus, he lied for 14 years.

The "rules of the game" in that regard cannot negate the fact that the man who is the all-time leader in hits is not in the freaking hall of fame!!!

 

If the rule infractions involved him cheating on playing, I'd have a better understanding of his ineligibility (although well-known cheaters like Gaylord Perry had no problem getting in). But gambling? I've already said he should never be directly involved in baseball again, but not putting him in the hall is a terrible omission from the history of the game.

 

It's ridiculous. Put him in the hall NOW. Don't wait and do it after he's dead, like I'm 100% sure would happen.

 

- Jeff

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If Shoeless Joe hasn't been put in after his death, neither will Pete. Why is it ok for some people to break the rules, and not others?

 

1. You must be in baseball to be in the hall - that's a rule.

2. If you gamble on baseball while you're in baseball, you're out of baseball - that's a rule.

 

Where is there a rule saying if you pistol whip someone, you're out of baseball? Where is there a rule saying if you write a book and admit you've been lying to everyone for 15 years that you're allowed back in?

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Originally posted by dabowsa:

Why is it ok for some people to break the rules, and not others?

Ask Gaylord Perry. Ask Phil Niekro. Ask any guy who ever really cheated by consistently using spitballs, nail files, cork and pine tar to artificially enhance player performance (much worse than gambling, IMHO). Or wait a few years and try and block Sosa or Bonds from getting into the hall based on their "errors in judgement". Wait until every steroid head is disqualified.

 

At that point, the argument that "cheaters don't belong in the hall" can be truly made. Until you set a common standard, I will believe that Rose is being held out of the HOF for reasons more political and personal than punitive.

 

He belongs in the Hall. End of story.

 

- Jeff

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