Do you hate electronic drums?

[Rikia]

Hey! Well, I've been thinking about this. Do you hate music which contain electronic drums? I think there are some.... I'd like to know why you don't like electronic/programmed drums. What makes you avoid listening to the kind of music? Out of my curiosity.

[not Cereal]

i like both real and non real drums.

[Duhduh]

Electronic drums are fine. Its electronically simulated acoustic drums that I hate.

[Midimonk]

electronic drums are very important in the industrial music field so i like'm alot.programmed drums are boring sometimes but,i always tend to think like a sound designer and use different elements(instead of the typical 808 kicks, i use anvils for snares..etc) to create my beats. midimonk

[The T Dot]

I think the biggest problem with electronic drums are the people who take a 1 or 2 bar drum loop and let it run the entire length of the song. It becomes too repetitive and has no "feel". There are some great artists that treat each measure differently, add flams, change sounds and time signatures, and create interesting fills. They know how to push and pull the feel of the song, and they "play" the sequencer in the same way a great drummer plays his kit. Obviously this won't suit every song, but it certainly keeps the drum track alive and interesting.

[freddynl]

No I don't hate them, I love them :D 1. Never too late 2. Never too loud or too soft 3. Never discussions about too slowly 4. Never discussions about too fast 5. Never drunk 6. Never missing any break and most important! 7. Can be turned off if neccessary Sorry, you asked for it.. ;)

[Lee Flier]

Yes, for the most part I hate electronic drums, as most people here know. :D Why? I suppose the main reason is that I love the sound and depth and feel of acoustic drums (played in real time, not sampled) so much that anything else seems like little more than a piss poor substitute. There've been individual records I've enjoyed that feature electronic drums, but even in most of those cases I feel that real drums or percussion would have made it even better. More often than not, I feel like the use of electronic or sampled drums compromises the recording - at best, I feel neutral about it. I can probably count the times on one hand where I've heard a record that I actually feel was better for having used electronic drums than it would have been otherwise. Yes, I know there are people who use them very creatively, and in their case I do respect what they do as being "legitimate" art and not just "artistic laziness" (which is responsible for a lot of the decisions to use electronic or sampled drums), but it just doesn't usually move me much, personally.

[Hippie]

I'm 'old school' so my preference is to use real drums but I can't always get... (I hate saying, 'my')...'the' drummer over the house at every stroke of inspiration; electronic drums is often the only way to go. I've been using 'Fruity Loops 3' with my own samples or other recorded samples and it's amazing how much one can do with this crazy program ..and I haven't even tried any of the 'toned' instruments yet. If you hate drum machines, try this out; it ain't bad. Matt

[Kaz]

Hate is a bit strong. I don't like them, very tired of them, would think they'd be horribly out of style, like spandex pants.

[DJDM]

Strangely, I have never thought about it either way. People express strong opinions about this all of the time. Having worked with real drummers I find the most exciting thing is when drum machines and samples loops are used in conjunction with real drums. Very rich texturally complex music seems to result. I am a big sucker for rich sounding recordings and while someone can get amazing results with just a kit and some brushes it is equally possible to create compelling sound with a combination of sound sources. It's all good. Just so long as it is stimulating to you. Isn’t that the important part of aural pleasure? The music feels intriguing to your ears/brain/heart? But to be clear: there is nothing quite as annoying as uninspired programmed drums. This is as bad as or worse than bad drumming! “Boom tink boom boom tink” is not a solution that anyone with any creative juice what so ever should be satisfied with. My $.02, - DJDM

[Meriphew_dup1]

I like a mix of both a real acoustic set/percussion, and electro drums - of course it all depends upon the style of music as well.

[Jeebus]

The Jeebus is dissapointed in all the so-called purists who would rather be unknowingly bound by the limitations of primitive instrument technology than open their ears to all the wonderful possibilities that electronic instruments bring. It is very ignorant and close-minded. This reminds The Jeebus of people who say: "We're REAL musicians, we don't use technology. We only play REAL instruments, man." Well, then you might want to unplug your ELECTRIC guitar, and get rid of that B3. :rolleyes:

[KHAN]

[quote]Originally posted by freddynl: [b]No I don't hate them, I love them :D 1. Never too late 2. Never too loud or too soft 3. Never discussions about too slowly 4. Never discussions about too fast 5. Never drunk 6. Never missing any break [/b][/quote]You forgot a few. 7. Never inspired 8. Never emotional 9. Never "in the pocket". 10. Never Grooving.

[Kaz]

[quote]Originally posted by The Jeebus: [b]The Jeebus is dissapointed in all the so-called purists who would rather be unknowingly bound by the limitations of primitive instrument technology than open their ears to all the wonderful possibilities that electronic instruments bring. It is very ignorant and close-minded. This reminds The Jeebus of people who say: "We're REAL musicians, we don't use technology. We only play REAL instruments, man." Well, then you might want to unplug your ELECTRIC guitar, and get rid of that B3. :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]Don't know if the The Jeebus is referring to The Zork at all, but The Zork is not a purist, is not ignorant, and is not close-minded. The Zork just doesn't like the sound of electronic drums. Just The Zork's opinion, and that's okay to have, isn't it? Try opening your mind to that.

[Jeebus]

The Jeebus is not referring directly to The Zork, merely criticizing the attitude he has received from many people in person. The Jeebus wonders if many of the dismissers of sequenced and sampled drums realize how much of the music they listen to uses it, even if they think they're hearing a live drummer.

[Lee Flier]

Yes, I'm quite well aware of how much music I hear uses samples and sequenced drums, and as I said, I don't think most of said music is any better for it, [i]especially[/i] not in the cases where they're trying to fool people into thinking it's a real drummer. I have much more respect for people who are actually being creative with programmed drum sounds/samples than those who are trying to imitate real drums. I understand that some people are recording in apartments and use loops/samples to sound like drums just because they can't record real drums, but on a major label release there's no excuse for it. Yet these phoned-in sounds are all over the radio. Blah.

[Jeebus]

[quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]I have much more respect for people who are actually being creative with programmed drum sounds/samples than those who are trying to imitate real drums. I understand that some people are recording in apartments and use loops/samples to sound like drums just because they can't record real drums, but on a major label release there's no excuse for it.[/b][/quote]The Jeebus will agree with this, assuming the major release is not attempting anything that can't easily be done on an acoustic kit. In many cases, sequencing provides sound options that are not possible from simply 'playing the drums'.

[GY]

I use some modules and personally recorded samples for snare, kick, toms, etc. I record real cymbals and hi hats. No one can ever tell what's real and what's not. To me, the first clue that drums are electronic is the way they are programmed.

[Lee Flier]

[quote]Originally posted by KHANstantinople: [b]You forgot a few. 7. Never inspired 8. Never emotional 9. Never "in the pocket". 10. Never Grooving.[/b][/quote]LOL... no doubt! And freddy, our drummer doesn't drink, rush, drag, or forget breaks anyhow. :D He usually understands how the dynamics are supposed to be without having to be "programmed" too :) , but if not, a simple "Let's bring it down here" or "let's build it up there" does the trick. If you're convinced that electronic drums are good enough, you'll probably never know the joy of working with a great drummer. :p

[Kaz]

Okay The Jeebus, if people are bugging you, I can understand how you would be annoyed. Name a song that has electronic sounds that you think we wouldn't realize, I'm curious as to what that would be. I agree about major labels. Seems crazy to record with excellent drummers, perfect kits, the best mics, in the best rooms, with the best engineers, and then replace and fix all the drums. But, I think that's the "sound". If it became "in", and profitable, to have the drums sound like cardboard boxes, then that's what we'd hear all the time. The White Stripes have a different sort of drum sound.

[mark_dog]

:p

[Salyphus]

Seems there are two different questions here: 1. sequenced or looped drums (which could be a pristine recording of acoustic drums) 2. electronically generated drum sounds (which could be played by an excellent live drummer) 1. is a question of feel and responsiveness to the music, and 2. is more a matter of sound quality and 'authenticity'. Personally I think whatever suits the arrangement is best. For example I'm not too interetested in hearing electronic drums in most types of jazz, but then again Future Man from the Flecktones seemed to do a pretty good job. And electronic drums seem well suited to music like Squarepusher, though I'm sure live drums would sound great if someone could play actually like that.

[mark_dog]

Burning Bush [b]DON'T BURN OUR PLANETS BUSHES![/b] There could be a bird's nest or some other animals home!

[Salyphus]

Ranger, I can assure you that all Brocks™ Crystal Palace Fireworks meet or exceed all local and international standards for forest safety. So you can go bang your [b]drum[/b] somewhere else buddy ;)

[Super 8]

[quote]Originally posted by Rikia: [b]Do you hate electronic drums?[/b][/quote]NO! NO! A THOUSEND TIMES NO!!! Hating electronic drums is like hating telecasters! Electronic drums have never competed with acoustics; in my mind. They are a different instrument and need to be treated as such. They can sound much like acoustics, but that is not their grand purpose as an instrument. Just as you wouldn't probably use a telecaster in a situation which called for an acoustic guitar, I think the same holds true for electronic and acoustic drums. Just the same, there are areas where the two can safely overlap. I always liked the interview with Bill Bruford in Modern Drummer in 1987 (I think) when the first Earthworks album was released. He had some cool things to say, but one thing sticks in my mind in particular. He said that "Electronic drums are just a different shovel used to dig the same hole". His philosophy helped me get over any puritan attitudes I -or people I was confronted with- might have had about electronics.

[MattC]

Has anybody seen the Trans-Siberian Orchestra? THe drummer for the easters tour company, Jeff Plate, used a Massive electric kit on stage (with acoustic cymbals) and it sounded excellent! Synth companies have really gone far with the technology. All they need to do is work on the price. I'd love a good set, but I've got better things to spend $5000 on.

[Nraki]

I agree with Lee Flier. I like electronic drums. I program drums as creatively as I can. I try not to imitate real drums and try to take advantage of the electronic drums, but once I hear my friend (who's a wonderful drumer) replacing the my phrases with real drums, I come to think. Wow!! This is better!! But, good drumers are few, you know.... I think we will hear electronic drums more and more in songs. Reason!!

[progfusion74]

I think electronic drums in itself a vague word and mean a number of things. Some of the tastiest percussion I have heard recently was in Chroma Key's "You go now" album, which was all programmed, albeit mostly acoustic drums. There are a number of records with use samples or something like a 909, or as someone mentioned earlier, Bruford's stuff which is quite good. On the flip side, I can't get enough of Terry Bozzio or a Virgil Donati. There is no substitute for a good drummer. But it has to be in context. I recently tried recording a long spacey passage with acoustic drums, but they just sounded bad and out of place. I finally, for the first time in my life, used a 909-style kit and that sounded just right. prog

[Jotown]

I do not hate electronic drums. I am not so crazy about bad sequencers who do not understand drums or rhythm in general. When budget permits and I can go into a great room with great mic's and board, with a great engineer that actually knows how to record great drum sounds being played by a great drummer, with a great properly tuned kit, thats what I do. When I can't, I program drum parts using whatever tools I have at my disposal, and I make it work, cause in the end, it's all about the song. Sometimes digital drums work fine.

[Jotown]

One other thought. Would "Sexual Healing" by Marvin Gaye, or "Thats just The way it is" by Bruce Hornsby, have been better with real drums? Different for sure, but better? I doubt it. Marvin was a drummer first, and he made music with that Roland 808. Bruce Horsby recorded that whole album secretly, away from his band,(and his drummer). "Thats just The way it is", and "Mandolin Rain" are great songs, and a real drummer would have made them different, but not neccessarily better. Just my opinion.