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Do you hate electronic drums?


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Hmm, I don't really like them. Especially when it's the only thing being done to cover the lesser half of the rhythm section. I especially don't like then because that's pretty much all that's used in rap, and I don't like rap. But to use them sparingly, and in coordination with real drums would be ok, I guess. I do kinda like techno, sometimes, but those aren't even electronic drums...those are synths. I just hate seeing someone beating on something and not making any real sound come out of them...
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It depends on the genre... As much as I`m a guitar player, I also like good dance music. Some of my own music doesn`t have much guitar. In that case, I sometimes see rhythms that would be [i]physically impossible[/i] for a real drummer. Also, many drummers balk at the idea of playing a repeated rhythm for a long time even if that`s what the piece calls for. They are indeed a different instrument. That being said, it`s often the expense of setting up a real drummer in a studio that makes the imitation so tempting. That`s when the annoyance factor kicks in-this [i]should[/i] be done with real drums, but we`re hearing the imitation anyway. Gotta agree with Lee, though-for major label releases, there`s no excuse.
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[quote]Originally posted by KHANstantinople: [b]You forgot a few. 7. Never inspired 8. Never emotional 9. Never "in the pocket". 10. Never Grooving.[/b][/quote]Man. You just have know idea what is possible with these things... do you? "7. Never inspired" Your right. That is YOUR job Kahn. They don't play themselves. "8. Never emotional" Huh? Should they be? Do you really want a crying drum machine? Although it could go with your weeping guitars. ;) "9. Never "in the pocket" So how long have you not been able to program drums? Seriously if you know what you are doing they can yield results that kick total ass. They can be played from traditional drums with pickups or your keyboard. In fact you can do almost anything with them. They do not have to be step programmed nor quantized. You can play right along to a song without any meter at all if you like. If you can't get them in the pocket for your stuff perhaps you should learn how it can be done before flippantly writing something off that many people take pretty seriously. Additionally you don't have to limit yourself to some small pallet of sound... you can make them sound like almost anything if you spend some time at it. "10. Never Grooving" See my point above. [quote]Originally posted by Lee: [b]If you're convinced that electronic drums are good enough, you'll probably never know the joy of working with a great drummer.[/b][/quote]I think I addressed this earlier. It is not for lack of having access to drummers that some of us are choosing to experiment with these tools but because we believe in the pioneering spirit of music. Not the fudy dudy spirit that you guys are displaying here. What is that about?!?!? I think there are some grave misunderstandings about what is possible with these tools. I recommend more research on the part of the detractors and less putdowns. If you are content to live within the limits of music that you have set for yourself then they probably are not for you but that does not mean that they suck just because you don't see outside your box. And again: This is very important! There is probably more bad drum programming in the world than there is bad drumming! You may not have ever heard anything interesting due to a simple lack of exposure. - DJDM
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We use electronic drums exclusively ....live drums are not performed on---in any of our studios.... We use Fat Kat pads to a Kurzweil sampler ,,,the pads are recorded with for every performance/recording with our clients.....no ISO room required... no bleed..enables us to build a groove with the performer, just a few feet away CJoGo http://fp2k.redshift.com/cjogo/crystalrecording.htm
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[quote]Originally posted by DJDM: [b]I think there are some grave misunderstandings about what is possible with these tools. I recommend more research on the part of the detractors and less putdowns. If you are content to live within the limits of music that you have set for yourself then they probably are not for you but that does not mean that they suck just because you don't see outside your box. And again: This is very important! There is probably more bad drum programming in the world than there is bad drumming! You may not have ever heard anything interesting due to a simple lack of exposure. - DJDM[/b][/quote]EXACTLY. Thank you DJDMtown, the Jesustown sees that you clearly know whereof you speak.
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[quote]Originally posted by DJDM: [b]"7. Never inspired" Your right. That is YOUR job Kahn. They don't play themselves.[/b][/quote]Yeah, and personally, I don't want to have to be responsible for ALL the inspiration. I happen to be inspired by what great drummers do. [quote][b] "8. Never emotional" Huh? Should they be? Do you really want a crying drum machine?[/b][/quote]No, I want the visceral passion of a real human beating the crap out of a set of drums and moving air. [quote][b]It is not for lack of having access to drummers that some of us are choosing to experiment with these tools but because we believe in the pioneering spirit of music.[/b][/quote]Like I said a couple of times already, I respect that. Most of it just isn't to my personal taste. [quote][b]Not the fudy dudy spirit that you guys are displaying here. What is that about?!?!?[/b][/quote]I don't judge music by whether it's "pioneering" or "fuddy duddy" but by whether I'm moved by it. The fact is that I'm moved by a great deal of music that features great drummers, whereas I've been moved by very little that features electronic drums, even though I might find it interesting or creative in some way.
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You go girl!!!! :thu: [quote] So how long have you not been able to program drums? [/quote]For as long as I shall live. :D It has been said before, but when samples and drum machines are used to create the illusion of a live drummer, the results are usually lack luster to say the least. I'm not saying that I couldn't be fooled, or that I have never enjoyed music without a live drummer. It's just none of the music that I am drawn to does it that way.
So Many Drummers. So Little Time...
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[quote]Originally posted by DJDM: [b][QUOTE]some of us are choosing to experiment with these tools but because we believe in the pioneering spirit of music. Not the fudy dudy spirit that you guys are displaying here. What is that about?!?!? I think there are some grave misunderstandings about what is possible with these tools. I recommend more research on the part of the detractors and less putdowns. If you are content to live within the limits of music that you have set for yourself then they probably are not for you but that does not mean that they suck just because you don't see outside your box. - DJDM[/b][/quote]For what it's worth, I've done lots of research, lots of looping, lots of sampling, lots of programming, and all that crap, but when push comes to shove, 999,999 out of a million times, I prefer the sound of a real kit, even if it's recorded in a less than pristine way. Electronic drums, and most other variations on this so called "pioneering" technology, have been around for a long time, and it's been on so much music now, maybe the people using electronic drums should start thinking outside their fuddy duddy little box.
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I have neither drums nor a drum machine... yet, i've spent many a night [i] miking myself using bic pens and chop sticks to beat on a makeshift trap set made of a 5gal bucket (kick drum), soup cans (toms), a coffee can with beads strung under the lid by a rubber band (snare), a wooden stick with two hard drive platters (highhat) and a small piece of sheetmetal suspended from wire (crash/ride, depending on where you hit it).[/i] No i am [b] NOT [/b] making this shit up, and while we're on the subject all my `bass tracks' are really one of my guitars run through a cheesy Detuner. I feel rhythm but i have nothing, so i make do. Sure, it has that `live' quality to it, with all the appeal of a trash heap. I'd love to have an actual, real drum machine where i could hit REC on the 4-track and `play' the drum buttons for some realistic drum sounds, instead of this bullshit ghetto contraption that sounds just like what it is. I bet my neighbours would hate me less with a real drum set.

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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WWND?

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[quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b][QUOTE] ...I don't want to have to be responsible for ALL the inspiration. I happen to be inspired by what great drummers do. [/b][/quote]We are in complete agreement on this one! I just don't think that the use of programming and great drumming has to be mutually exclusive. [quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b][QUOTE] ... I want the visceral passion of a real human beating the crap out of a set of drums and moving air. [/b][/quote]Me too! Ever seen a drummer playing on Space Muffins? Or using a trigger pad that is attached to their acoustic kit to add additional FX sounds to their playing?! Very cool! Especially when you have a nice loud sound system. [quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b][QUOTE]I don't judge music by whether it's "pioneering" or "fuddy duddy" but by whether I'm moved by it. The fact is that I'm moved by a great deal of music that features great drummers, whereas I've been moved by very little that features electronic drums, even though I might find it interesting or creative in some way.[/b][/quote]OK. I totally respect that. I guess the point I am making is that the inside jabs that somehow try to make out that those of us who use electronics are only doing it because we either have to or we are somehow missing out is a little inflammatory and insulting. I for one can appreciate the drumming on Credence Clearwater's track "Who'll Stop The Rain" (very cool skinning) and then listen to some Amon Tobin with equal delight. I just simply think that they are different crafts. One is no less inspired and or exciting to me than the other. They are different. [quote]Originally posted by KHANstantinople: [b] It has been said before, but when samples and drum machines are used to create the illusion of a live drummer, the results are usually lack luster to say the least. [/b][/quote]I hate that too! Waste of some great technology and it never does sound quite like a live player. Unless it is done by a live player and his performance is captured via midi or on tape! Then it can sound really cool. But I agree that using standard sounds is a little boring on the whole. That’s what loops and acoustic drummers are for! ;) [quote]Originally posted by KHANstantinople: [b] I'm not saying that I couldn't be fooled, or that I have never enjoyed music without a live drummer. It's just none of the music that I am drawn to does it that way. [/b][/quote]OK. Can’t argue with a persons tastes. - DJDM
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[quote]Originally posted by zork: [b][QUOTE]For what it's worth, I've done lots of research, lots of looping, lots of sampling, lots of programming, and all that crap, but when push comes to shove, 999,999 out of a million times, I prefer the sound of a real kit, even if it's recorded in a less than pristine way. [/b][/quote]Oh. [quote]Originally posted by zork: [b][QUOTE] Electronic drums, and most other variations on this so called "pioneering" technology, have been around for a long time, and it's been on so much music now, maybe the people using electronic drums should start thinking outside their fuddy duddy little box.[/b][/quote]Where would you start? If we are to create new areas of sonic experience, what would you recommend? Should we all get a five piece kit and storm the new horizons of... of... what do we call your acoustic drum avant guard zork? While you are at it can you show me how to play dNb on an acoustic kit in real time without the use of samples or other effects? Thanks zork! You 'da man! :) - DJDM
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http://www.laketrout.com http://www.laketrout.com/media/kono.ram I hate real audio. These are my boys. Check out kono. Yes, it's mike playing jungle on drums and a real bass player

http://www.kennyruyter.com/old/cowmix.mp3 <- Cowbell fever REMIX oh damn!!!

 

http://www.eastcoastbands.com

 

aka: ECBRules . thisOLDdude . keny . Scooch

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[quote]Originally posted by thisOLDdude: [b] http://www.laketrout.com http://www.laketrout.com/media/kono.ram I hate real audio. These are my boys. Check out kono. Yes, it's mike playing jungle on drums and a real bass player[/b][/quote]Very cool track!! Cool band. I would love to hear a better version of the recording. They have MP3s up somewhere? He did that live? Nice stuff. Interestingly this track proves my point. Jungle and dNb were developed by programmers and loopers and then it comes full circle with a project like this being influenced by that sound. There is good stuff everywhere if you allow it to be there. I'll say it again: great track! - DJDM
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[quote]Originally posted by thisOLDdude: [b] http://www.laketrout.com http://www.laketrout.com/media/kono.ram I hate real audio. These are my boys. Check out kono. Yes, it's mike playing jungle on drums and a real bass player[/b][/quote]On a side note I have been to Gaithersburg! I went there when I was with DMX back in 2001. Lots of trees and I remember lots of assmunchers on motorcycles! Loud, crotch-rocket riders that did exceedingly stupid stuff in traffic. I couldn’t believe it. In the summer is it still like that? Is there some club for testosterone driven college students with two wheeled suicide notes? I really had never quite seen anything like it. Otherwise nice place! :) - DJDM
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[quote]Originally posted by DJDM: [b] [quote]Originally posted by zork: [b][QUOTE]For what it's worth, I've done lots of research, lots of looping, lots of sampling, lots of programming, and all that crap, but when push comes to shove, 999,999 out of a million times, I prefer the sound of a real kit, even if it's recorded in a less than pristine way. [/b][/quote]Oh. [quote]Originally posted by zork: [b][QUOTE] Electronic drums, and most other variations on this so called "pioneering" technology, have been around for a long time, and it's been on so much music now, maybe the people using electronic drums should start thinking outside their fuddy duddy little box.[/b][/quote]Where would you start? If we are to create new areas of sonic experience, what would you recommend? Should we all get a five piece kit and storm the new horizons of... of... what do we call your acoustic drum avant guard zork? While you are at it can you show me how to play dNb on an acoustic kit in real time without the use of samples or other effects? Thanks zork! You 'da man! :) - DJDM[/b][/quote]There are lots of drummers (and engineers) who created new sounds and styles and techniques with regular drums, aren't there? Look, I saw your comment above about feeling that the electronic drum dislikers were coming down on the electronic drum likers, and I certainly don't mean to do that. In fact, I thought the likers were coming down on the dislikers, and I was taking offense to the comments about being fuddy duddy and having a closed mind and all that.
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There used to be a big harley following around here, but with the growth of the suburbs, the official new two wheeled stereotype is the "Yucapuck", those asian people who drive the really fast imported bikes. The harley scene still exists, but it has migrated north to u guessed it, GermanTown and Fredrick (passionately referred to as fRedneck) Every once in a while they all come out the week just before bike week at daytona beach florida, and it looks like a mullets galore reunion. Don't get me wrong though, I have a lot of respect for the harley davidson owners in the area. The seasoned owners get the gold series bike, but some of the earlier models are still around. There is this one psycho paraplegic violin totin tatooed biker who had his bike modified with one wheel in front, two in back, just to keep his spirit alive. These are real honest to goodness down to earth people. K

http://www.kennyruyter.com/old/cowmix.mp3 <- Cowbell fever REMIX oh damn!!!

 

http://www.eastcoastbands.com

 

aka: ECBRules . thisOLDdude . keny . Scooch

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Oh wait a minute, now that I think about I see that you are talking about the fast bikers! I had two recent experiences with them I'd like to share: Last night I was overrun by about thirty police cars chasing this bike onto the freeway. OMG I almost s*** myself. A couple of weeks ago one of them passed me in the breakdown lane on a bridge at about 140. I pulled up to the stoplight next to him and said "What r u tryin to do, kill yourself?" and he went off! He followed me into the parking lot of this gas station yelling at me what he was going to do to me once he got off his bike, and I had to begin steering my vehicle into his bike before he said Oh $hit and sped off. I have to correct myself though because the ones with death wishes are usually white rednecks. Not that I have anything against rednecks or anything... (I even wrote a country song!) -

http://www.kennyruyter.com/old/cowmix.mp3 <- Cowbell fever REMIX oh damn!!!

 

http://www.eastcoastbands.com

 

aka: ECBRules . thisOLDdude . keny . Scooch

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[quote]Originally posted by zork: [b][QUOTE]There are lots of drummers (and engineers) who created new sounds and styles and techniques with regular drums, aren't there? [/b][/quote]Yep. [quote]Originally posted by zork: [b][QUOTE]Look, I saw your comment above about feeling that the electronic drum dislikers were coming down on the electronic drum likers, and I certainly don't mean to do that. In fact, I thought the likers were coming down on the dislikers, and I was taking offense to the comments about being fuddy duddy and having a closed mind and all that.[/b][/quote]Some of them are being both fuddy duddy and closed minded. I am not pointing any fingers but I will say that dismissing technology out of hand because you are happy in your own sonic realm is not really the mark of a true adventurer. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep your feet firmly planted on home soil. But that does not mean that the people getting into the ships are all fools. Conversely there is nothing wrong with creating new techniques of farming and the people enjoying bread at sea would wise to remember this. All I am saying is that acoustic and electronic instruments are all just tools for creating things. If you condemn one because it is "inferior" then what are you going to tell someone like Bobby McFerrin that could argue your "instrument" is ridiculous because it is not part of your body? "What. You had to create a device to pound rhythm on that is not part of your immediate body? How stupid is that!" Or how about the electronic versus acoustic wars. Symphony violinist versus electric guitarist. Violinist: Your instrument lacks any real subtly or immediate dynamic range and it sounds like a bag of burning cats. Electric guitarist: You so don't rock. And I can't hear you in the cheap seats unless you have your entire section playing. IMHO in this case condemnation is just another way of saying “I think I have heard it all” and I find that frustrating. I don’t hate any instrument or any discipline of playing to the best of my knowledge. Some I prefer to others and even that changes. If someone is trying to express something and they are saying it in a compelling manner I want to hear it. Not block it out because I think that I have it all figured out without the benefit of listening. That’s all. - DJDM
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One of my very best friends is the Drummer for the Temptations.(the real ones) He is a very talented drummer, keyboard player, composer and producer. He spends his days seqencing his projects, and his nights beating the skins in concert. I recently tried to give him a Yamaha DD50 drum interface as a gift, because I know that he seqences his drum parts on a keyboard. He didn't want it. He does it on a keyboard, and he is cool with that. His production skills have been showcased on the last 3 Temps records and he was the session drummer of choice for Don Was for a while. I tried to convince him how much better his drum parts would be if he used an interface, and he just played me a coulple of tracks and said; "Would it be better than that?" I got his point. There are as many ways to make music as there are people making it. No one way has a monopoly on what is valid. Whatever works for you is fine, and we should all be less judgemental about how people approach making their own music. It is all personal opinion and personal taste. Nothing more.

Jotown:)

 

"It's all good: Except when it's Great"

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DJDM, I essentially agree. I do think, though, that the thread question is "do you like them?", so certainly there are going to be people who say "no", and to generalize that those who say no are close minded is just as unfair, isn't it? I, for one, never said they were invalid, or the music made with them is invalid. Are there not any types of music, or particular sounds, that you don't like?
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[quote]Originally posted by Gulliver: [b]If they are programmed poorly and unimaginatively - I hate them. If they are programmed creatively using some cool sounds and rhythms - I love them.[/b][/quote]:thu: Technology doesn't make bad music. Bad musicians do.
So Many Drummers. So Little Time...
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All drums are electronic. At least on CD. I usually prefer acoustic drums live. I'd rather play with a drummer than a computer. I love jamming with multiple drummers or percussionists. Though sometimes you write better drum parts with a computer, just like scoring away from an instrument is a different way of writing than jamming. But I can't hate electronic drums. I love love 'em. I love music. Jerry
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I love being on stage with a set of electronic drums! Our stage volume is very tolerable, and, more importantly, our FOH mix is better as a result. We've been auditioning new drummers lately and have had a couple bring in real drums. What a difference! Now we can't hear each other, we leave practice with our ears ringing, throats hurting from pushing so hard, and actually getting less accomplished! That's why I love electronic drums from a performance aspect... Now, if we were always on a large stage with an acoustic shell around the drummer, I think I'd prefer real drums. Like an acoustic guitar or actual piano, there really is nothing like the sound generated from an acoustic instrument. But in the real world.... Rick
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Hey Rick, that's cool. :thu: Yeah, it helps keep the stage levels down don't it? What kinds of equipment are you using? Our usual set up is a Roland V-drums. Very capable, but not perfect. We use a shell when we have an acoustic set. But the monitor levels are a little higher regardless. Cheers, Jerry
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