Pitch and mod wheel technique

[Tusker]

I'm Jerry and I'm a Wheel failure.

 

The Roland thread got me thinking about the problems I've had using wheels. And then it struck me, maybe I just haven't been educated on the best ways to use pitch and mod wheels. So would you enlighten me?

 

So ...

 

What is the correct posture? Which fingers/thumb should you use for what purpose? What exercise would you suggest for somebody who wants to get a little better at this (i.e. what is the equivalent of scales and arpeggios for wheels)?

 

I usually use the thumb for the pitch wheel, grasping the edge of the keyboard to give me control. Is this the preferred technique? Trouble is the mod wheel is pretty much unreachable unless I let go of the keyboard to do it.

 

So should I use my 3rd finger for the pitch and the 2nd finger for the mod wheel? How do you accomplish simultaneous pitch and vibrato effects when one wheel is sprung and returns to center and the other is unsprung and returns to "bottom". Do you curve your fingers around the wheel, or insert the tips of your fingers into the little crevices?

 

I am truly interested in this. It's a shameful secret that I never figured out how to use these tools. How do you use them?

 

Jerry

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Tusker:

So should I use my 3rd finger for the pitch and the 2nd finger for the mod wheel?

That's how I do it. I rest my palm below the wheels, and use fingers 4 and 5 for support to the left of the pitch wheel.

 

How do you accomplish simultaneous pitch and vibrato effects when one wheel is sprung and returns to center and the other is unsprung and returns to "bottom". Do you curve your fingers around the wheel, or insert the tips of your fingers into the little crevices?

I curve my fingers and insert them into the indent, and then I just straighten my fingers out to move the wheels, rolling them across the surface of the wheel as it extends. This technique removes the fingertip from the indent when the wheel is extended, but I don't find that to be a problem at all.

 

dB

[Dave Pierce]

I sort of stumbled across a good way to practice using both wheels at the same time -- using a sax patch, try to replicate a sax lead line. You'll find that you need both, subtly, and often together.

 

--Dave

[Krakit]

I use my thumb, index, middle and ring fingers depending on the situation. I've also used my palm on both wheels, also depending on situation.

 

Sometimes, I curl my finger, move my whole arm or keep my arm stiff and lean back or forward on my hips.

 

It really depends on what I'm trying to do.

 

 

Carl

[Steve LeBlanc]

Honestly I never thought about it until reading the thread complaining about the Roland paddle...so I don't know...I just try to have as much control as possible...I guess with wheels I'm similar to DB but I can't say I'm consistent, I've used wheels a variety of ways depending on what I was playing.

 

I do remember something funny...one time in the studio I wanted to bend while playing with both hands for this one part...I'm often barefoot in the studio so I used my toe...took more than one take but I got the effect I wanted.

 

FWIW...I'm pretty sure wheels are better for Foot technique than paddles...HAHAHA

[Rod S]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

That's how I do it. I rest my palm below the wheels, and use fingers 4 and 5 for support to the left of the pitch wheel.

That's what I'm used to doing.. except that they put the ribbon on the cs6x under the wheels, so my palm triggers it.

 

I end up disabling the ribbon quite often for this reason.

[marino]

Originally posted by Tusker:

So should I use my 3rd finger for the pitch and the 2nd finger for the mod wheel?

I remember seeing a column on Keyboard magazine about 25 yers ago (!), teching this method. I also understand that many keyboardists use it.

 

I use a different approach: I tend to keep my index finger on the pitch wheel, and I use the thumb on the mod wheel. This way, when I don't need the mod wheel, I can use both the thumb and the index finger on the pitch, for maximum precision. In this case, I tend to keep the thumb on the indent at the center of the wheel and using that to move it upward, while the index is the driver for donward movements. BTW the two fingers together give me a nice, controlled balance.

When the thumb is busy with the mod wheel, I often keep the tip on the index finger on the indent of the pitch wheel, but I use the whole finger in a 'rolling' motion as I need it.

 

My advice: Use whatever approach comes natural to you. The important thing is to practice precision. Set the bend to your favorite range, then practice slow and fast moves, trying to hit specific intervals. Then try moving the wheel 'before' playing, and see if you have the interval right. Next, try to 'sound' the same note from two different keys, one with bending, one without. Etc, etc.

 

This is actually the first time that I try to explain wheel technique in such detail..!

 

Carlo

[Bunny Knutson]

I use the same technique as Marino. Index finger on the pitch bend, and thumb on the mod wheel. When the pitch bend needs more precision, I use both finger and thumb.

 

Incidentally, I prefer the kind of pitch bend controller that's on the Nord Leads. It moves side-to-side instead of front-to-back, which makes more sense to me, because low notes are on the left, and high on the right, so the controller follows logic. I'm not as skilled with a front-to-back wheel. Then again, I usually use the Nord for lead work, and the Kurzweil for two-handed chording where I only use the mod wheel.

[Superbobus]

Originally posted by Rod S:

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

That's how I do it. I rest my palm below the wheels, and use fingers 4 and 5 for support to the left of the pitch wheel.

That's what I'm used to doing.. except that they put the ribbon on the cs6x under the wheels, so my palm triggers it.

 

I end up disabling the ribbon quite often for this reason.

Just use your thumb for the ribbon. Do you have to use the mod, pitch and ribbon at the same time?

[Dave Pierce]

Originally posted by Stephen LeBlanc:

I do remember something funny...one time in the studio I wanted to bend while playing with both hands for this one part...I'm often barefoot in the studio so I used my toe...took more than one take but I got the effect I wanted.

 

FWIW...I'm pretty sure wheels are better for Foot technique than paddles...HAHAHA

Hmmm. Well, I often rehearse with just my RD-700 since it's my most versatile 'board. The B3 emulation basically sucks, but the Leslie sim is controlled by the stick thingie, and I use my foot on it all the time! Not only does it work, but it's pretty much guaranteed to cause our singer to laugh in the middle of a song. She has an infectuous laugh, so I do it a lot...

 

--Dave

[progfusion74]

This thread has already been super useful

 

prog

[Odyssian]

In most cases, I use my index finger on the pitch wheel and thumb on the mod wheel. I do have more details though that I would like to share below. I don't know of anyone else that uses this technique, but it works for me. Hopefully I can word it without being too confusing (sorry if I am).

 

Instead of using the center notch of the pitch wheel, I sometimes place my index finger halfway between the notch and the "full forward position" of the pitch wheel (closer to the synth's main control panel).

 

This allows me to to do very accurate half step upward bends since my finger will touch the panel at the wheel's midway point (my pitch wheels are all set to whole steps). The wheel's panel gives immediate tactile feedback at the wheel's midpoint position.

 

While you're at this half step upward bend, you also have the option of adding manual vibrato just by shaking your hand a little. As long as you don't lose your grip on the wheel, you can do a manual vibrato and still quickly find the half step up position. If you do lose your place on the wheel, you can always just let the wheel go (if it's spring loaded) and it will snap back to center pitch. Then continue playing like nothing happened.

 

If I do the upward half step bend as above, if I then want to increase the bend range to the full whole step, I continue to roll the wheel up by "flattening" my hand (fingers out straight) and using the area of my hand near the knuckle area.

 

This positioning of the hand also means that I can swoop down a full whole step from the original center pitch very quickly and accurately by rolling the wheel all the way back towards me. My index finger will still be fully on the wheel in that lowest wheel position.

 

Another plus side to this technique is that in all the above pitch wheel ranges, the thumb is always in a good position to work the mod wheel freely.

 

And that's my tip o' the day!

[Tusker]

Originally posted by marino:

My advice: Use whatever approach comes natural to you. The important thing is to practice precision. Set the bend to your favorite range, then practice slow and fast moves, trying to hit specific intervals. Then try moving the wheel 'before' playing, and see if you have the interval right. Next, try to 'sound' the same note from two different keys, one with bending, one without. Etc, etc.

Excellent insights from everybody. Thanks. Marino your practice advice is helpful for ribbons and sticks as well.

 

Personally I now have a rich set of different techniques to try out.

 

I haven't tried anything out yet, but based on my reading, I can imagine the trade-offs involved with reaching a particular solution. I wonder if wheels (and each particular technique) have their own identity ... in the sense that they facilitate particular forms of expression.

 

Best,

 

Jerry

[Analogaddict]

This may not be the optimal way when it comes to paying attention to cues, but I sometimes pitch bend with my nose. Modulation is even easier, since that wheel does not flip back to center. You yust have to watch out if you have a Nord, those pitch sticks can be really sharp! OTOH they fit the nose very well. The nose is also useful for laying drones and sniffing out food remains between the keys...

 

/J nas

[Tusker]

Originally posted by Analogaddict:

This may not be the optimal way when it comes to paying attention to cues, but I sometimes pitch bend with my nose. Modulation is even easier, since that wheel does not flip back to center. You yust have to watch out if you have a Nord, those pitch sticks can be really sharp!

LOL. Though probably not as painful as playing by ear.

 

Jerry

[Rod S]

Originally posted by Superbobus:

Just use your thumb for the ribbon. Do you have to use the mod, pitch and ribbon at the same time?

No, I don't need all 3 all the time, I touch the ribbon by accident. I'm used to resting my palm, and then suddently the sound changes out of nowhere That's why I've been disabling the ribbon unless I absolutely intend to use it.

[coyote]

Leslie sim should be controlled by buttons - an on/off, and a fast/slow. It surprises me that more synths don't have assignable buttons for such mod usage.

 

Originally posted by Dave Pierce:

The B3 emulation basically sucks, but the Leslie sim is controlled by the stick thingie,

--Dave

I do see the benefit of wheels for modulation, and I'm glad that between the JP8000 and the QS7.1 I have both the wheels and the paddle (as well as a ribbon).

[Dasher]

I'm Jerry and I'm a Wheel failure.

 

Hi, Jerry.

 

There is no one way that is best, or even proper, it's what works for you. The main 'trick' is... practice!

 

Think expressively, and you'll begin to play expressively. Think "I'm bending the pitch now," and you will bend pitch, not play an expressive bend.

 

Frankly, the really best solution, IMO, is the Kurzweil 2500/2600 small ribbon. You can bend and/or exactly produce real vibrato, but it takes even more practice than the wheel.

 

Good luck, and keep practicing - but don't go too deep -you might get the bends...

 

Dasher

[Analogaddict]

Originally posted by Tusker:

LOL. Though probably not as painful as playing by ear.

 

Jerry

LMAO!

No, and it can come in handy at times; I can smell an upcoming chord change for miles nowadays... thank goodness I´m not a bass player!

 

/J nas

[Bunny Knutson]

I love the "nose" technique. That's classic stuff!

[Yahoo]

Tusker, forget what everyone said, and do whatever is most comfortable and effecient for you.

 

I luckily have a Roland JP-8000 which has a joystick , much better than wheels in my opinion.

yeah, just do whatever works for you. That's what I did , and I created my own technique of tweaking. for example, I almost always tweak the filter by changing both the res and cut at the same time. The JP is easy to do this, kuz it has two little sliders right next to eachother, but I can still do this on like any board.

good luck..

also, yes the nose can come quite in handy (or nosey ) sometimes.

[Analogaddict]

... and I must add that although my hands love the Roland and Korg pitch sticks, my nose REALLY hates them!

 

/J nas

[Tusker]

Originally posted by Dasher:

There is no one way that is best, or even proper, it's what works for you. The main 'trick' is... practice!

 

Think expressively, and you'll begin to play expressively. Think "I'm bending the pitch now," and you will bend pitch, not play an expressive bend.

 

Frankly, the really best solution, IMO, is the Kurzweil 2500/2600 small ribbon. You can bend and/or exactly produce real vibrato, but it takes even more practice than the wheel.

 

Good luck, and keep practicing - but don't go too deep -you might get the bends...

 

Dasher

Thanks Dasher.

 

I don't think I gave wheels much of a chance. So as you point out, it really is a question of lack of practice. I have never used the Kurzweil small ribbon, but the ribbon on the An1X is what I like most for bends and vibrato. Since I have access to ribbons and sticks, I have even more of a reason to avoid wheels.

 

Trying to bust out of the self-reinforcing loop here. Bad at wheels. => Avoid wheels. => Bad at wheels.

 

I think some of it is a question of self-confidence too. As you point out, it's more a question of doing what you can imagine musically rather than knowing what Jan Hammer's moves are.

 

Jerry

[coyote]

There is some measure of truth to this. Yet, what do we do by taking lessons other than cop the techniques of past masters, and then learn how to apply them to our own situation? Wouldn't learning JanHammer's moves give us a few more tools in our toolbox? Most times you only need a slotted or Philips screwdriver - but sometimes you need that Torx driver. It helps to have as many tools available as possible.

 

Originally posted by Tusker:

As you point out, it's more a question of doing what you can imagine musically rather than knowing what Jan Hammer's moves are.

Jerry

[Postman]

I've always wanted a synth where changes to the pitchbend are ignored when the amp envelope is in the release stage. Has that ever been done?

[Odyssian]

That's an interesting question, Postman. I can't think of any conventional synths that can do this, but it could be done on most well-equipped modular synths.

 

How would one make use of this feature in their playing?

[Analogaddict]

Imagine playing pedal steel licks, only bending the note(s) of choice, or setting your pitch controller of chiose to affect more parameters. That way you wouldn´t have to move your hand quite as often. Or to be able to affect a sound at the ADS stages, or perhaps only the stage of your choise! I love the thought, and I´m sure it could be done on modulars - maybe the nord modular or the Arturia Moog modular?

 

/J nas

[coyote]

Hmmm, how about aftertouch modulated by the pitch-bend? That way you hold down a chord and move the bender - and the only notes which bend are the ones to which you apply some extra pressure.

 

Originally posted by Analogaddict:

Imagine playing pedal steel licks, only bending the note(s) of choice, or setting your pitch controller of chiose to affect more parameters. That way you wouldn´t have to move your hand quite as often. Or to be able to affect a sound at the ADS stages, or perhaps only the stage of your choise! I love the thought, and I´m sure it could be done on modulars - maybe the nord modular or the Arturia Moog modular?

 

/J nas

[progfusion74]

Originally posted by coyote:

Hmmm, how about aftertouch modulated by the pitch-bend? That way you hold down a chord and move the bender - and the only notes which bend are the ones to which you apply some extra pressure.

 

Originally posted by Analogaddict:

Imagine playing pedal steel licks, only bending the note(s) of choice, or setting your pitch controller of chiose to affect more parameters. That way you wouldn´t have to move your hand quite as often. Or to be able to affect a sound at the ADS stages, or perhaps only the stage of your choise! I love the thought, and I´m sure it could be done on modulars - maybe the nord modular or the Arturia Moog modular?

 

/J nas

That's probably best handled at the patch level using a mod matrix

[Mike Martin]

Some products (Ensoniq and Kurzweil) allow you to do pitch bending of notes that are held. So you can play a chord and sustain it using a pedal, but then bend the notes that you continue to hold. This is at the top of my feature list for future Yamaha products.

 

I'm a big fan of ribbon controllers too so I'm very happy that there is a ribbon on the Motif ES, but I also have the large ribbon from the Kurzweil ExpressionMate hooked up to the Motif ES as well...very cool.