Which synth for dance music?

[bg]

Ok, I'm late to the party on this. Here in Miami, the classical station switched format to dance music. I've been listening and I like it, but I don't understand a particular VA effect. I hear rhythmically triggered chords that sound gated, like a MIDI arpeggiator. But instead of pitches cycling sequentially, the whole chord turns on and off rapidly and rhythmically. I don't know how to get this effect with what I have (K2k, P2k, Oasys, DP). Is this effect standard operating procedure on a Virus or Waldorf synth?

[Intheether]

That could be the KARMA. What was the song/artist? ~nel

[RABid]

Two suggestions here. Quick and easy way, if it gives you the sound you want. Use the LFO on a square wave to drive the amp. The LFO needs to be clocked to MIDI to get timming right. If you have the option to add slew (spelling?) rate to the LFO then you can take a bit of edge off of the sutter. You can do this with the Nord Modular but I am not sure about the synths you mentioned. Oh. edit note: The Nord Modular can be used to either play cords of this style, or process an audio signal to give it this effect.

 

Kord Electribe R or A. They allow external audio to be processed through them and will create the studder effect. This was mentioned in the Keyboard Mag review of these boxes as one of the cool uses. It is not available on the more recent Electribe boxes to get the R or A.

 

Robert

 

[ 02-08-2002: Message edited by: Rabid ]

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by bg:

But instead of pitches cycling sequentially, the whole chord turns on and off rapidly and rhythmically. I don't know how to get this effect with what I have (K2k, P2k, Oasys, DP). Is this effect standard operating procedure on a Virus or Waldorf synth?

 

Sounds like you are describing what the nice folks at Roland call a Beat Slicer effect - it basically gates the amplitude of a patch rhythmically - you set the note value, and the velocity (0-127). The ones that I have played with have allowed you to set separate velocities for 16 steps.

 

This actually duplicates something that you can do with an old analog step sequencer...one of the rows of Andromeda's step sequencer has this capability as well.

 

Dunno for sure what other synths have this and which don't. I imagine those who do have their own names for it...

 

dB

[jdonnici]

It's also something you can do with a gate... run a synth pad or long chord through it, but trigger the gate from a rhythmic source. For example, you could have a snare drum track that has the rhythm you want to use... run that into the gate as the trigger and set it so the gate opens for the synth track when it gets a signal from the snare track.

 

In Cakewalk/Sonar, I wrote a CAL script to do this. You tell it the rhythm track to use and it essentially goes through that track and looks at the Note On, Note Off, and Velocity data. You can choose a Midi CC number and it writes out a separate track with CC data based on your choices. For example, you could choose #7 (volume) and tell it to create a CC value of 127 where all Note Ons occur and 0 where all Note Offs occur (based on Note On plus Duration). Optionally, have the CC value equal the Velocity of the note.

 

Once you have that MIDI CC track, you can apply it to synth pads, comp tracks, etc and it's basically a MIDI gate of the snare trick I mentioned above. I'm sure you can do similar things in other sequencers (maybe even natively without having to do any kind of tweaking/programming).

 

Lots of fun uses for that effect...

 

-- jeff

[realtrance]

You've already had a number of interesting answers. I would just add that what was called "slew rate" can also be controlled with what some manufacturers call a "lag processor," or "smoother." As already stated, easy to put together on the Nord Modular.

 

The beat-slicing thing is a blast with the Roland SP-808 and SP-808EX models, that's a very popular phrase-sampler for synth dance music (as opposed to polka). Also available on the D2 and of course MC-505.

 

The Waldorf Q's built-in step sequencer can do this and a heck of a lot more, providing both the gating effect, the smoothing mentioned and beyond that transposition of notes in real-time, making for some truly awesome patterns.

 

Finally, and not least, E-Mu's models and E4XT all have almost the capacity of a modular in their "patchcord" system and you can do a lot of the slicing/gating stuff through that, using lag processors and more as well (you've really got to learn what to do but once you do, incredibly flexible instruments). The latest E-Mu "grooveboxes" (XP-7 and XL-7) growing out of the Planet Phat and Audity modules probably provide extensive capability along these lines, with massive improvement in real-time interface control over their sound module ancestors.

 

rt

[aeon]

So basically, there are many, many ways to skin this cat.

 

One of my favorite ways to do gating effects is to use the freeform modifier in the t.c. FireworX as a modulation signal to simultaneously control a gate as well as a couple more parameters such that the effect is not just a static on/off, but a rhythmic stutter with some additional color.

[RABid]

And no one even mentioned the possibilities of recording to file and pulling it into an editor to do chopping.

 

A few things I forgot to point out on the Nord Modular: you can use one of the sequencer or rhythm pattern modules to give the gate effect a pattern of your choice, you can set up controlled panning along with the rhythmic chopping, it is easy to use the sequencer and pattern modules to control both the chop pattern and dynamics, and you can do all of this either before or after the effects.

 

Robert

[bg]

th-th-thanks for all the good info!

[Mark Zeger]

For $30 you can get this effect for any synth with Twiddly Bits Programmers Toolkit. Includes many "gate effects" as standard MIDI file sequences, also arpeggios, drum patterns, plenty of dance-oriented MIDI files.

[Rod S]

Originally posted by mzeger:

For $30 you can get this effect for any synth with Twiddly Bits Programmers Toolkit. Includes many "gate effects" as standard MIDI file sequences, also arpeggios, drum patterns, plenty of dance-oriented MIDI files.

 

tried ordering from 3 online dealers, plus checked a couple of stores.. never in stock. Gotta try to pick one up next time I'm in the US, since nobody around here has heard of them The general instruments had some pattern - all pretty cool, which made me want to get this set.

[realtrance]

The only risk in skinning this cat is that -- with so many ways to do it, and with the "effect" becoming pretty popular these days, you're at risk of (if you think of it in those terms) musical cliche pursuing the stutter sound (some people would argue that cliche=$$$).

 

On the other hand it's a useful exercise, maybe while learning it you'll come upon something else entirely new and wonderful.

 

And then again, filter sweeps could be considered a cliche too yet they've been around for 30 years or so now......

 

rt

[Bobro]

Originally posted by realtrance:

The only risk in skinning this cat is that -- with so many ways to do it, and with the "effect" becoming pretty popular these days, you're at risk of (if you think of it in those terms) musical cliche pursuing the stutter sound (some people would argue that cliche=$$$).

 

On the other hand it's a useful exercise, maybe while learning it you'll come upon something else entirely new and wonderful.

 

And then again, filter sweeps could be considered a cliche too yet they've been around for 30 years or so now......

 

rt

 

Filter sweeps rule.

 

-CB

[bg]

Originally posted by nelz:

That could be the KARMA. What was the song/artist? ~nel

 

I had to sleuth because the station doesn't announce *anything*. (I guess if you have to ask, you're hopeless.)

 

Anyway, the song is "It's Love (Trippin')" by Goldtrix and Andrea Brown. Though not the best example of the rhythmic gating I asked about, it caught my ear for another reason: The singer's vibrato sounds like a blues guitar player. I don't know if the vibrato is manufactured, but it sounds cool.

 

Hear a snippet.

 

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: bg ]

[Mark Zeger]

Originally posted by Rod CA:

 

tried ordering from 3 online dealers, plus checked a couple of stores.. never in stock. Gotta try to pick one up next time I'm in the US, since nobody around here has heard of them The general instruments had some pattern - all pretty cool, which made me want to get this set.

 

Have you tried www.keyfax.com? You should be able to order directly from there. There once was a deal on multiple volumes, something like "buy 3, get the 4th free", so it's worth ordering more than just Programmers Toolkit. Either of the guitar volumes are worth having for strums, finger picking patterns, etc.

[Peake]

Create a synth pad with no attack or release, and full sustain. Enter the chords by hand in your sequencer using notes of pre-determined and equal "on" times. Paste the chords around. Karma and Andromeda have "sequencers" in them which can allow the creation of a repeating pattern of gates around which you can play the chords you wish to hear in real time.

 

One of the earliest examples of running a keyboard through an analog synth and gating the audio with a square wave while playing chords is the Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again" (organ and EMS VCS-3 "Putney"). Drawmer gates are also killer for this, as you can run any pad through them and use a drum machine sound to trigger them (I've read that the Drawmer is especially good for this, as I believe someone also posted in this thread).

[marino]

Ehi, that's interesting - nobody mentioned that in the old days, this type of effect was often done with a vocoder! You use a drum machine as a modulator input, and set the thing to sound only when modulation input is present. Then, you play chords on the keyboard. If you have a vocal-type sound as the carrier, it's even more distinctive.

[G. Ratte]

you're at risk of (if you think of it in those terms) musical cliche pursuing the stutter sound

 

Yeah, but it's always fun. In dance/urban music, it's usually called a "transformer" effect, after the transformer scratch that DJ Jazzy Jeff originated (as in, back when Will Smith was a bad rapper). He'd cut the volume fader up and down fast on 8th notes usually.

 

I do 'em manually in Cubase, cutting the part into bits and muting a pattern out. Works best on dry pads, 'cuz reverb'll screw it all up.

[RABid]

Guitarists get this effect by using the pickup switch. I wonder? If I flip the power switch of my keyboard on and off real fast....EEEEEEEEEEEKKKKK!