Get out of Classic ....

[Filipe]

I've been in classical music since i was seven. I can play Beethoven, Chopin, Bach, but i feel like in desert. When i see a keyboard player improvising and playing all different chords it's like watching a B/W over a Color one.

How can i improve into Jazz, Blues, R/B? Which would be the best way to make the change? A Teacher, Books, Tapes?

I live in Miami and if anyone knows something around here, please.

I need your help,

Thanks,

Filipe

[mwisniewski]

Well here's what kicked me out that rut, might be different for you, but it might help too.

 

1. I learned some music theory on the side - a book or a class would be good, if your teachers were like mine, they just taught sight reading and technique, music theory fills in the gaps so you can improvise.

 

2. Learn some basic chord progressions, lots of books on that, if you listen carefully you can also pick up chord progressions from songs you hear. Start with a book/CD first though.

 

3. This book worked really well for me: Improvising Blues Piano by Martan Mann. The music on the CD is easy to jam with, learn some of the exercises and play over the CD. I like this book because the music is actually listenable vs. the usual plinkaty plink beginner fair.

 

4. Try improvising with the songs you already know, slow it down, speed it up, change tempo, try different chords, play the song to a different beat etc. I like to take 2 or 3 favorite measures out of the classical songs I know and just mix up the chord structures and change the beat etc. to see what happens.

[Steve LeBlanc]

Good advice from mwisniewski...I don't really have anything to add...maybe I'll think of something later. Learn a lot of chords and how they relate to each other.

 

But mostly, listen to what others do and copy it to start.

[mojosaur]

Besides the rest of the advice already given, one very good piece of advice LOL learn to play some drums and impovise rhythmically......learning how to vary rhythms is a very cool way of improvising and somewhat underappreciated at least in books etc......if you can learn how drums work the rest of your job will be easier.

 

Also, go to a club to hear a good band and dance like you are insane.....which of course you must be if you are involved in music anyway. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

 

 

This message has been edited by mojosaur on 07-27-2001 at 11:57 PM

[sudeep]

yup great advice...only other thing i could add is find a book on jazz patterns (jerry coker) or jazz runs (andy laverne i think)...learn them and the chord progressions they are over..and use them note for note...after a while youll start modifying them and changing bits and before you know it youre improving...great start anyway!

[Filipe]

Thanks for the advise, i've bought two books on jazz improvising and already started doing whta you've told me. If any other ideas comes to your mind i would appreciate your help. By the way, as a classical pianist that i am, i were used to practise lots of scales. Do you know any book with scales for jazz or phrasing?

 

Thank you so much for your help.

 

Filipe

[lrossmusic]

Hello Filipe,

 

My name is Lincoln and I am a trombonist who plays piano as a second instrument. Looking at transcriptions of even some relatively easy classical pieces scares me to death. I would say that with the technique and reading skills you have already developed in studying the classical masterpieces you may be in a better position to learn other genres than say I might be to attempt the reverse. Although I have learned some of Mozart's Sonata # 1 after many years of intermittent practicing I have yet to be able to play through the whole thing with out messing up somewhere.

 

I would suggest like others above that you begin by listening to recordings of players you like. With your background you probably can imitate a lot of what you hear by just repeated listening. Now a days you also may find lots of transcriptions of jazz solos so you can listen and follow along. Keep in mind that improvisation on a level of say an Art Tatum (who was almost totally blind) is something that probably cannot be taught. I say that to say that in my humble opinion fluent improvisational ability is more like athletic talent and cannot really be learned from a book or a teacher. It's something that one has a gift for or not. Even with the natural talent though one still needs as much technique as they can get from practicing the scales, exercises, etc.

 

My 2 cents

 

Lincoln

[Blues Disciple]

When I was in junior high school I joined the jazz band in my school as a keyboard player. Prior to that all I ever did was take lessons for about ten years. It was a struggle to break free from the sheet music and just jam. It took time and I learned a little. Then I joined my first band, and threw everything into learning how to improvise, solo, and pick up things off the record. Learned a great deal.. This continued for many years until it was almost second nature. Its very hard to break away from a sheet music oriented approach and develop your own style.

 

In addition to all the other great ideas, I would suggest that you take a leap of faith and find one or more other patient and understanding musicians to jam with---be they a guitar player, bassist, or drummer or all of them. In my mind, the best way to learn is by doing it and the only way to to learn rock, jazz, and blues keyboard is to play rock, jazz and blues keyboard.

 

Also, listen, listen, and then listen some more to a variety of keyboardists and styles. Determine which are your favorite then practice picking off the chord progressions and later, the solos from the CD's. You will have to fine tune and develop your ear along with your chops.

 

Just my two cents!

 

BD

[Guest]

You learn to improvise the way a child learns to speak.

 

Learn to improvise over the blues first.

 

Initially mimic gestures and don't worry too much about what notes, worry about what you want to hear. Mimic like a baby mimics talking. Go for it. You're just starting.

 

Improvisation is gestural first and notes second.

 

You'll find that jazz and blues improvisations sometimes confound theoretical expectations but work, because they embody a vocabulary of phrases .

 

Learn licks or phrases and practice them in every key.

 

You need to listen to a style frequently. You should try to sing instrumental parts.

 

You should transcribe solos by ear. Use a tape recorder to play at half speed if you need to or a DAW. Play up to a note that you're having trouble hearing and sing that note. Transcribing solos is the best way to further your improvisational skills.

 

Scales are just one tool for improvising. Another tool is approach notes to chord tones, both diatonic and chromatic. You'll find that transcribed solos might confound scalar analysis but make sense when looked at as various approaches to chord tones.

 

A teacher will really be helpful.

 

Go to live performances often.

 

Joe

[humannoyed]

Filipe,

Check these two great resources:

homespuntapes.com (I have the Doctor John and David Cohen)

pgmusic.com (pianist series- I have the New Orleans Pianist as well as the classical disks)

These are great for developing American styles- blues/jazz/gospel/country chops. For European heritage classical improv, you are on your own...You know teacher don't allow! (even though all the composers you mentioned improvised)

You can get much better pricing by buying from someone like Interstate Music instead of buying direct.

 

By the way who is the recording pianist that can improvise in baroque styles? I think the word "water" is somewhere in his last name.

hum