There oughta be a law...

[Dave Bryce]

Okay, here's a thread to give you a chance to get some things off your chest.

 

Let's hear about something that really bugs you - it can be related to music, gear, retailers, manufacturers, or anything else that you wish.

 

This thread doesn't exist just to start trouble - we've had a bit of that around here already recently. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif

 

I started this thread more because I have found that shedding light on stuff sometimes makes things better, and that discussing things with others may bring up other points of perspective that help you deal, or maybe show you something in the process that you hadn't previously seen. Or, conversely, it can make you feel better when you find out that you're not the only one who is bugged by something.

 

So, what's your beef?

 

dB

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

Every digital piano should make the velocitiy sensitivity very adjustable. I have arthritis and most digital pianos are too hard on my wrists. They should be as adjustable as any sampler, because that's what they are.

[Dave Bryce]

I agree with you, Steve. I have a similar peeve about aftertouch curves...I was spoiled by the Roland A80 and my Kurzweil keyboards, which provide this ability in spades. It really bums me out when I can't adjust it . I think it's just bad product development - there's no excuse for it.

 

dB

[guestuserguestuser.com]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

So, what's your beef?

dB

 

My beef is that synths are too complicated. I'm sick of spending time futzing around with synth programming, when what I really want to do is be making music. I'm seriously considering selling all my stuff and starting again, with simpler instruments.

 

I realize that not every instrument is meant for performing, but those that are meant for performing should have more thought put into the performing aspect. For instance, global controls for things like reverb. Why not have one knob that can be assigned to control reverb on every single patch? And when I switch patches, I shouldn't have to move the knob to make it take effect. For instance, I owned a Korg Triton for a while. Most patches have too much reverb. If I want to reduce the amount of reverb on every patch in the machine, I have to edit every single godam patch! Grrr!

 

One of my big beefs is with velocity-switching. I'm a piano player, and I used to own a Rhodes, so I know what they sound like. There's no velocity switching on a Rhodes, I can tell you. You hit the keys harder, the timbre changes, yes, but it doesn't instantly switch from one timbre to another. What a horrible, non-musical concept that is. Manufacturers, please stop doing this! I especially hate it on preset patches that I can't change. What's more infuriating is that this seems to be accepted as the normal way of programming a Rhodes patch on a synth. Yech.

 

The stereo / mono thing is a huge problem, and it's getting worse, because now synth makers are starting to use stereo samples. If I'm playing a gig, the p.a. in most cases is going to be mono. So, what do I do? Most synths sum the L and R to mono on the L output. This is ok, but it doesn't sound as good as stereo. So why make a synth that doesn't sound good when used on stage? And what if I want to use stereo for my stage monitor setup and send mono to the P.A.? What do I do then? IMHO, every stereo synth should have both stereo and mono outs. The mono out should be not just a sum of the L and R outputs, but a real mono signal. Maybe a better solution is to make mono samples the norm, and stereo samples an option.

 

I could go on and on. I really like synths, but the design limitations are exteremely frustrating at times.

 

I own a Roland A50 controller keyboard. Let me tell you, they really got it right with that controller. For performing, it does everything just right. I'm talking about the design of how it works. I realize the keybed isn't the greatest, and the display's not backlit properly, and all that kind of stuff. But as far as the way it functions, it's the best I've seen so far. The Kurzweil PC2 also looks like they got it right, but I've only played it for a few hours in the store, so I don't know what its limitations are. But I know the A50 inside and out.

[Dan Worley]

I'll tell you what boils my blood, and that's companies who hype and promote products, but when the product is released (a year later) it only has two-thirds of the features that they claimed it was going to have in the promotional material--and some of those features don't get added until six months after the release date.

 

I really do feel that something will be (and should be) done about this. I have found many instances in print advertising where companies have listed features for a particular product that I know aren't supported--no disclaimers, no fine print, no nothing, just out-and-out lying.

 

Firstly, they should be as ashamed of themselves; secondly, we shouldn't purchase their products and should report them to who?

 

Regards,

 

Dan Worley

[Dave Bryce]

Vaporware in general sucks big cheese, period.

 

There should DEFINITELY be a big, hairy, nasty law that strictly prohibits companies from talking about or showing products until they are in boxes and ready to ship; or, at the very least, in final beta. I mean, it's one thing if you want to show a product behind closed doors under non-disclosure to collect some market feedback, but public announcements that treat the vaporware as if it is a real product in order to keep people from buying something else should be right out.

 

I have been in the position of having to be the one promoting the premature product, and then having to make excuses, regurgitate the company's line (two more weeks - really!), and then take the flak when it doesn't happen (no, two MORE weeks - I promise this time!!!). Frankly, that sucks. I had to do it for three products at the same time once. It just did wonders for my personal credibility, and what made it worse was that I wasn't the one making the decisions.

 

I actually had to talk about a product for quite some time that never made it to market. This product had quite a big demand built up for it. Then, when it turned out that we just couldn't make it work, the company put out an announcement saying that it had been shelved due to lack of demand. People went nuts, and guess who got to handle that rancor? Your humble narrator. http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/angry/icon202.gif

 

Never again... http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/angry/nono.gif

 

dB

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Vaporware in general sucks big cheese, period.

 

Sure does, my brother.

 

But you know the drill all too well. The vicious circle of vaporware generally goes something like this: the engineering group tells the sales and marketing group that they can make product "x" for price "y". How many will it sell? The sales group starts talking to their dealers to get an idea of sales projections. The dealers get excited and want to start promoting the product right away to bring customers in. Sales gets an initial ship date, based on an ideal world where nothing goes wrong in product development, and asks marketing to produce some preliminary info pieces on the non-existant product. Marketing, in their infinte wisdom, realizes that an ad for the product needs to be done about three months in advance of the ad coming out in a magazine.

 

So they do the ad and place it before the engineers realize that they can't do the product in the time frame they said, or the manufacturing guys find out that a crucial off-the-shelf part has been discontinued and that developing one of your own will take another six months.

 

Anyway, long story long...the ads come out, the hype begins, the product still isn't ready and won't be for some time, and you have...VAPORWARE! The nastiest word in music and audio and technology in general.

 

There should DEFINITELY be a big, hairy, nasty law that strictly prohibits companies from talking about or showing products until they are in boxes and ready to ship; or, at the very least, in final beta.

 

Ya really think so? Is this possible to avoid based on the above? I don't know, but I'm not seeing how from my perspective.

 

It sucks for the customers, it sucks for everyone at the manufacturers, it sucks for the dealers. But I don't see it going away anytime soon, and as the demand for faster turns in technology grows more pressure-packed every passing year, it'll be worse before it gets better.

 

- Jeff

[Sergievsky]

Isn't this vaporware false advertising. Can't we sue them for that shit? Or report them to the better business bureau (or whatever it's called). Just to put a stop to all that nonsense.

 

Raul

[Lee Flier]

Well... having worked as a software engineer, I hate to say it but I kinda agree with Jeff. A lot of times there is simply no way to both do adequate research and marketing AND ship on time.

 

Also, when I was in the market for a personal DAW, my only choices at the time were the Roland VS-1680, the Korg D-16, and later the Akai DPS-16. However, because the Yamaha AW4416 was announced well in advance of its release, it seemed like it was going to be enough of a leap over its competitors to wait around for it. It was a frustrating wait - it didn't ship until like 9 months after they said it would - but I'm glad I waited because the machine really does do most of what they advertised and I feel it aces the competition.

 

The only thing I think is really heinous is if, as a couple of other people have said, a product never actually comes out, or it comes out with severely crippled features. That starts to border on false advertising. If a company is honest about the fact that a product isn't actually shipping, and then they actually build the product as they promised, it's not so bad. In the computer era we have all become used to "I want what I want and I want it now", and sometimes when it comes to gear, a little patience pays off.

 

--Lee

[Dave Bryce]

Hmmmm...

 

Maybe I'm just still bloody from being the guy having taken the flak for a bunch of years, but I wanna believe that there's a way that it can be done without playing the vaporware game.

 

I understand Jeff's points - really I do - however, I've watched a few good products lose a ton of momentum because they took so long to come to market, and then trickled out when they first shipped because the company was in such a hurry to get 'em out because of the pressure being put on them by the public. It's a vicious cycle...

 

Sales gets an initial ship date, based on an ideal world where nothing goes wrong in product development

 

This is the first mistake. When you ask an engineer how quickly they can do something, they answer you exactly as you asked the question - without calculating in the x factor. Big no-no. Sales and marketing guys need to learn to either ask correct questions; or, if they can't, to leave the engineers alone.

 

and asks marketing to produce some preliminary info pieces on the non-existant product. Marketing, in their infinte wisdom, realizes that an ad for the product needs to be done about three months in advance of the ad coming out in a magazine.

 

Beta testing typically takes more than a few months, which is certainly more than enough lead time for the magazines to get the ads...and, if it isn't, then the things are already in stores ready to purchase when the ads do hit. It's not written in stone that the ads have to be in magazines the day that the products ship. There are a variety of information channels that can be employed to inform the public about products. we're currently using one of the most powerful ones right now...

 

So they do the ad and place it before the engineers realize that they can't do the product in the time frame they said, or the manufacturing guys find out that a crucial off-the-shelf part has been discontinued and that developing one of your own will take another six months.

 

Not every company works this way. I can cite quite a few examples of ones who don't. In certain cases, S&M are not permitted to talk to engineering until there is a "real" product to speak of.

 

What tends to hose many manufacturers is trade shows. They tend to use these as milestones, and it gets them into lots of trouble. I am guilty of this, so is Jeff, so are a bunch of others that we know.

 

I have just completed a short stint with a company that refused to show a "finished" product until it was in boxes and ready to ship - it was actually quite refreshing, and showed me that it can be done differently.

 

dB

[Steve44]

I was going to chime in on the vaporware discussion (my favorite example being Layla) but then realized that this threead was about somethign else and I did want to flame about something I absolutely hate.

 

MAP pricing. Yuck! Stupid! It works ass-backwards and that really pisses me off. as far as I know the point of MAP pricing is to stop the big chains from closing out all competition by pricing an item really low and then getting all the business. A parallel of that is that a big chain would advertise a price really low and then everybody else in the business would have to sell it that low or else they wouldn't get any.

 

But what really happens is that the big chains never advertise items and different prices at all so their customers assume their prices are fixed and buy gear at these ridiculously high prices. But then the smaller stores feel the need to really drop their prices in order to sell anything, not to mention to build a customer base. But these are the stores that need the higher margins the most! And meanwhile the large chains are selling MAP'd items by the dozen at the highest margin with no discount. The rich get richer and the small guys get screwed.

 

I think they really need to have a suggested advertised price, but allow the smaller stores to advertise prices beneath those of the large chains, because that's the only way they can get attention. It's unlikely that a large chain is ever really going to drop prices that much on any item, because despite the fact that they sell in high numbers of merchandise they are still greedy thieves! (maybe I should take that back as I'm about to become a salesman again...)

 

 

Anyways, this stuff really pisses me off. The real problem is that the whole game changes once you step foot inside a store and aren't bound by the rules made by some legal team at a big manufacturer. But most consumers don't recognize that at all because the advertisements suggest that there isn't any flexibility in prices on keyboards. Thus the pricing atmosphere at a small stores is much more rigorous than at a large store, because the customers don't think they have a chance to get a better deal at a large store and just end up paying MAP price. But those that go to a small story really feel like they can haggle there.

[murph]

Steve44, you make a good argument for MAP, and I need to butt in:

 

I worked for years at one of the big retail chains. Before MAP pricing, we would price the gear where we thought it should be. Then, a local competitor would always price the gear of a certain manufacturer or two right at cost. Because of our price guarantee, we would have to match it. When too many people would bring us this price, we would have to chage our signs and sell the stuff too cheap. As a salesperson, realize that I need to make some money too, and selling stuff at cost doesn't accomplish this. How do we counter this? Sometimes we were instructed to take the gear off the floor. Let's pretend we ran out. Totally dishonest. Push the keyboards that are similar and make money off of those. Not dishonest, but slimy, and creating the ugly salesperson that nobody likes. Sell the gear at the price, sell accessories to make money, bite the bullet, and hope that the competition goes out of business. That's eventually what happened --- three years later. MAP might've helped the little guy stay in business. I certainly wanted to make some money to sell stuff. I thought that's what I was supposed to do.

 

Now for my rant:

During the stint at the retailer, I was subjected to several items that were advertised months before they came out, due to the manufacturer promising shipment by the time the advertising hit the customers. Not only did I not have anything to sell, but now I have an angry customer who blames me for what my employer does. Gee, thanks! There OUGHT to be a law! Thankfully I'm out of the retail sector!

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

One more note on the vaporware topic (and a thumbs-up to both Lee's and Dave's subsequent posts)...

 

There is a big difference between companies that purposefully promote products they know to be a long way from ship time in order to freeze the market from buying available competing products, and those that make honest mistakes about how long it takes to bring a particular product to market, thereby inadvertently promoting vaporware by taking reasonable means to alert the public about its impending availability.

 

And Dave's right...trade shows are the biggest culprit.

 

- Jeff

[Lee Flier]

Dave wrote:

This is the first mistake. When you ask an engineer how quickly they can do something, they answer you exactly as you asked the question - without calculating in the x factor. Big no-no. Sales and marketing guys need to learn to either ask correct questions; or, if they can't, to leave the engineers alone.

 

I agree. In practice, this basically never happens. In fact, what a lot of sales guys do is ask you for a time frame, then when you try to give them an honest one they say "Oh, that's too long, it will have to be done much faster than that". Then they go to the vice president of development and say "Can't you hire more programmers/engineers? Can't people work overtime? What do they mean it will take a year to do this?" Inevitably the development manager then tells the sales weasel something that will make him go away, which means a deadline that he already knows he can't possibly meet.

 

Also, a lot of companies use consultants and if you're a consultant bidding on a project, you have to underbid your competitors, which generally means lying about time frames. If you tell the truth, somebody else won't, and they'll get the gig, not you.

 

I wish as much as anybody that something could be done about it, because I hate working under those kinds of conditions. But it's "the way things are done" these days. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/frown.gif

 

Another pet peeve of mine is being an unpaid and un-notified beta tester. I don't mind beta testing someone's product if they tell me that's what I'm doing. If they release something and it's still full of bugs, that bugs. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I've pretty much come to expect, though, that any new digital product is going to have bugs when it first comes out. So I either wait till it's been out for awhile, or I just buy it and don't do anything critical with it until there've been a few software upgrades.

 

--Lee

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

I agree. In practice, this basically never happens. In fact, what a lot of sales guys do is ask you for a time frame, then when you try to give them an honest one they say "Oh, that's too long, it will have to be done much faster than that". Then they go to the vice president of development and say "Can't you hire more programmers/engineers? Can't people work overtime? What do they mean it will take a year to do this?" Inevitably the development manager then tells the sales weasel something that will make him go away, which means a deadline that he already knows he can't possibly meet.

 

Hmmm - how much more accurate could you be here, Lee? I'm thinking...(Nigel Tufnel voice) none more accurate. Damn - that is SO right on...the engineer almost oughta say, "I'll tell you what - why don't you just tell ME what my answer is going to be before we start - it'll save us both a lot of time". http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Another pet peeve of mine is being an unpaid and un-notified beta tester. I don't mind beta testing someone's product if they tell me that's what I'm doing. If they release something and it's still full of bugs, that bugs. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I've pretty much come to expect, though, that any new digital product is going to have bugs when it first comes out. So I either wait till it's been out for awhile, or I just buy it and don't do anything critical with it until there've been a few software upgrades.

Ahhh, yes - companies who use the general public to beta test their products...always a fave... http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/otn/violent/splat.gif

 

I've heard that one justified in the following manner - "Well, there's obviously no way that we can try this thing out in all the possible configurations with which it could be used, so we'll just release it and see what happens". Sometimes, they even warn the tech support guys... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

 

These are usually the brainiacs that let the engineers who made the product in the first place do the "beta testing"...sheer brilliance. They DO need to let SOME actual end-users do the beta; however, as Lee observed, these people deserve to KNOW that they're doing the beta...

 

...and either pay them, or give them the gear for free.

 

dB

[Guest Room Warrior]

I think Jeff's comments on vaporware are exactly right: most of it is due to the pressures of the marketplace as he describes, and an evil few examples are a cynical attempt to freeze the marketplace.

 

But what if you decided you weren't going to play? Let's say one intrepid manufacturer makes it their Unique Selling Proposition that they will NOT announce/advertise/ultrahype a new piece of gear or software until the working prototypes have been beta-tested and the tooling is place. They would hammer this concept in their advertising: "We're the company that cares enough about you and your music that we're not going to blow vapor up your skirt," or words to that effect.

 

I'm curious about opinions on this from a marketing perspective. Would this pitch endear you to customers to the point where they would respond to ads for vaporware by saying, "I don't care what these other guys are promising, I'm going to wait and see what my Good Friends at TascGeneMack (the company that cares) are going to come up with in this category BECAUSE I KNOW IT WILL WORK?" In effect, is this another way to freeze the dollars in the pool?

 

- Jim Bordner

 

This message has been edited by Guest Room Warrior on 04-30-2001 at 09:34 AM

[Lee Flier]

Jim,

 

I've often thought the same thing. It would require a huge commitment by the company from top to bottom, but I do believe it would work.

 

Then again, some people tried it in the software industry 10 years ago and it didn't work. Even Microsoft back then used to be one of the "good guys" whose stuff you could always rely on when it came out, but within a couple of years they became one of the worst offenders in terms of marketing hype and releasing stuff before it is ready.

 

Still, customers are more savvy as well than they were 10 years ago. We used to tell our clients not to upgrade to the next OS or software version until it was stable, but they would never listen - they wanted the latest and greatest and that would often cause US problems as developers. Now, most of them already know without being told that they probably shouldn't bother with new software for six months to a year.

 

Hopefully, audio folks are learning the same lesson, and maybe sluggish sales during the first months of a product's release will lead manufacturers to create better beta testing programs, etc. Asking potential customers to be beta testers and then giving them a big discount on the final product is a way to turn a disgruntled customer into a huge ally.

 

Just an example, again regarding the Yamaha AW4416: this machine WAS released with a few bugs and a couple of obviously left out features. Yamaha has been very forthcoming with OS updates to correct this, which is good. However, their tech support people have often been rude and not very sympathetic in dealing with customers' problems. They have had NO communication with the AW4416 user group. I am personally not terribly upset because none of the bugs are destructive to data and I figured that if I was an "early adopter" a few of these kinds of things would turn up. But a lot of people ARE upset, and after reading our comments on the user group they either don't buy an AW yet or they become very pissed off if they do own one.

 

Then it was announced that Waves would be releasing an effects card for the AW. Within a few weeks of its announcement at the trade shows, a representative from Waves got on the AW user group and asked if anyone would care to be a beta tester, and what our qualifications would be for being one. Everyone who was interested emailed him and he responded to each of us personally. The product is still not in beta yet, but this Waves rep has hung around on the user group and has always quickly and honestly answered any of our questions. It is obvious that they won't release this thing until it is right and that they want to engage actual users in the process of making it right. I can't imagine that anybody has anything other than a stellar opinion of Waves as a company, and a feeling that if there are complaints they will be listened to and taken care of.

 

Seems to me that the difference between companies is nothing but ATTITUDE and commitment to the customer. Geez, people, you'd think it wouldn't take THAT much to keep your web site updated, have an official user community frequented by a company rep, have tech support training that teaches support reps to be responsive and polite, and have a comprehensive beta testing program involving REAL USERS that proves your commitment to quality. Usually, staying involved with customers is all it takes, and the Internet makes that REALLY easy. If you don't think your customers are worth that, you're pretty sorry!

 

That's my flame of the day! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

--Lee

 

This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 04-30-2001 at 11:04 AM

[Guest Room Warrior]

Lee: I think it would work, too (obviously). But you'd have to stick to your guns for while until the market caught on.

 

Of course, my evidence that this would be an effective approach is purely anecdotal, and it's all about me (because what else do I know?). I've been a stalwart, hardcore, no-nonsense, evangelical user of a particular piece of MIDI/audio software for all the years I've been producing. I love everything about it... the interface, the feature list, on and on.

 

The ONLY time I have ever considered jumping ship for another program is when an upgrade came through that introduced more bugs than it fixed. The buzz in the user's groups (and I agree that sincere participation in those groups is essential for the manufacturers) was that the upgrade had been rushed, the company didn't love us anymore, they were using us as unpaid beta testers, etc. The combination of the problems I faced in my studio, the on-line buzz and the tech support guys seeming inability to solve these problems undermined my confidence in a program I had a 7-year relationship with.

 

Now, from a marketing stand-point, that's pretty serious stuff. When a true believer like me starts wondering if maybe the grass isn't greener, then you've made a mistake.

 

What stopped me was dropping in for a few weeks on Brand B's user boards and reading the headaches THOSE guys were going through and the flames they were shooting at their manufacturer. Made my tiny problems seem... well, tiny by comparison.

 

Anyway, my point is that if I KNEW beyond a shadow (because of the manufacturers stance they will sell no line before its time) that the next upgrade was going to beta tested nigh unto death and delivered as bug free as humanly possible, my confidence would be pretty much unshakable.

 

Now, getting the users to understand that spoftware is never "finished," that's another story.

 

- Jim Bordner

[murph]

Let's also realize that you probably can't effectively have beta testers and keep products a secret. "I'll let you try the software out, but don't you tell anyone about it," won't cut it. And beta testing in-house has it's own share of problems, as the engineers/designers/sales department will never be able to try it in all of the possible real-world applications. Audio cards were subject to this years ago when they would work with Pentium and Celeron chips but not Athlon, as an example. Or if you had a certain video card. Or if you live in the Mountain time zone. Or if you middle name was Frank. You get my drift...

So how do you try everything in everyone's 'real-world' without the general public knowing about it?

[Dan Worley]

I wouldn't mind if companies announced and promoted "actual working products" that are in "actual beta testing"...but that's not what's happening these days.

 

Here's what I imagine, and I don't think I'm too far off the mark: Some sycophantic R&D people have a few too many beers at their manager's pool party and scratch out an idea on a paper plate to impress their boss; a month later we're hearing about this wonderful black box with all these wonderful features that we can't live without.

 

And guess what? A lot of us (me included) are stupid enough to whip out our credit cards and put in an advance order. That's why it's still happening.

 

There ought to be a law!!!

 

Regards,

 

Dan Worley

[jarrell]

I play left hand bass, and wish 76 note keyboards started on C, or A, but not E. I guess low E was chosen years ago because that is what a Rhoades has, but - E to G? Why not A to C, like a piano?

 

It would also be nice to have a synth that has a way to layer and mix sounds dynamically, with one button press or fader move. You know, like a mixing board. Only a few synths have this ability, the trend in the last few years has been more knobs but less faders, and several button presses to get from volume to on/off settings for each sound in a performance (the JV-90 General Music Equinox are two of the few synths that do this).

 

- jarrell

[Michael Jones]

Here one for the piss-me-off pile....

 

Pathetic LED screens on keyboards. Premier instruments costing thousands of dollars have this little assinine LED screen for programming. Thats ridculous!

 

I am an avid Kurzweiler. I love the possibilities of the VAST engine.

 

However.....

 

Someone from Young Chang should explain why a board of the quality of the Kurz (other manufacturers as well!) do not incorporate into their boards the ability to attach a monitor and mouse. I realize there are editor/librarians, but they are midi interfaces and way to slow for real time programming. Midi is a solid protocol for what it is intended to do. Synth programming isn't one of them. With gigabyte processors and ram up the wazoo, it seems to me that a good computer (serial?) interface on these highly configurable boards is what is needed.

 

I would have no problem in paying extra for such much needed tool.

 

Anyone from Young Chang listening?

 

Now that I am totally pissed off I am going to go watch my Karma video that came with my latest issue of Keyboard.

 

Remember the Music!

 

Michael

 

This message has been edited by midirat on 04-30-2001 at 05:07 PM

[Guest]

mike said < remember the music>

weeeeellllll!!!!! don't that say it all?

When I first found this forum I had some tech questions and it was very helpful. But, it just seems like most folks are plain caught up in the gottahavecuzi'mneversatisfiedforlongwithwhatIgot syndrome. Maybe out in SoCal ya jess' gotst ta have the latest stuff to compete, but I'm glad as hell I'm not there. I got some great sounding gear and sometimes it sounds like hell just because of low or high voltage, the weather, or I'm in a lousy mood. When that happens i get up and walk away for a while or, if I must, I tough it out.

 

Sometimes my Triton piano sounds seem better than my QS8 piano and vice versa. A friend of mine warmed up for our band the other night. He has a 2500 kurz. I've always thought the action was better than my QS8 and that it's piano sounded better than the one on my Triton. But, it sounded really bad the other night. And the action didn't impress me all that much when I was messing around with it. I could go play it tonight and might think it's a great board again.

 

What bugs me is that we all (myself included) seem to get caught up in what's good and what's bad and what we gotta have and there just seems to be little interest in actual playing. When I gig I play organ, piano and a rhodes sound....out of approximately 4500 possibilities!!! And we are in big demand in our region. I get lots of complements, we sell a bunch of cds, get good press and not one of those fans, critics or press people could give a rats ass what my piano sounds like. And I guess that as long as it sounds well enough for me to play it with inspiration that is all that really matters to me as well.

 

Thanks again, Mike,I just realized that I can make do just fine with what I have until it breaks. The music, after all, not yet another new sample, is what it's all about.

[Dan Worley]

b3wiz said: >But, it just seems like most folks are plain caught up in the gottahavecuzi'mneversatisfiedforlongwithwhatIgot syndrome.<

 

It's called G.A.S. - Gear Acquisition Syndrom

 

As in, I'm having a major G.A.S. attack.

 

Regards,

 

Dan Worley

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by Dave Bryce:

Let's hear about something that really bugs you - it can be related to music, gear, retailers, manufacturers, or anything else that you wish.

 

So, what's your beef?

 

1) The most of the "Owner's Manuals".

2) Incompatibility of KORG sounds from newest machines with the older ones.

3) The best synths coming from Overseas

4) The fact REAKTOR does NOT process Audio Inputs LIVE (or am I wrong?)

5) How do you have to beg to A&R executives to listen your material; then asking them what they think about it...

6) Those thousands of windows you have to deal while working in CUBASE.

7) The fight between mLAN, USB, Firewire... Gentlemen, MIDI has been a Standard for 20 years now. It's amazing you can not take a similar decision right now about the new Audio/Midi standard... in the meantime, MIDI still rules...

8) Chicks in the audience coming with their boyfriends

 

... I feel better now http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Gustavo G Lozada

[marino]

My humble entry...

 

Maybe a law isn't necessary, but I would really like some manufacturer to come up with something like the following:

 

A master keyboard, fully weighted, 76 keys or so, wheels above low keys to keep it short and light (no joysticks or paddles). A few sliders, maybe a ribbon, a decent MIDI implementation (8 zones, velocity and AT curves, a MIDI in with merge, a couple of outs etc.), a display to show program names.

And the most important: not heavier than about 12 kgs (about 27 lbs). Yamaha's P80 digital piano has 88 weighted keys and is about 16kgs, so with a little further effort it should be possible.

 

Why am I asking it? I developed serious back problems. I can't carry around my Fatar Studio 2001 anymore without help, and I don't always have it. I hate to play on unweighted keys, for certain gigs more than for others. The masters actually in production are either too heavy or have a ridicolous MIDI (two/three zones, no display, no curves etc.). I would even be satisfied with decent "half-weighted" keys...

I'd be glad to pay Kurzweil-like prices for it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

marino

 

-still no spellcheck-

[SlopHappy]

My turn! This is what makes SlopHappy SlopPostal:

 

1. Sample CD-Rom pricing and licensing, specifically Ilio. Let me get this straight...I pay you $300 for a license to use your guitar/whatever sounds. I can't do anything with the CD but use it, or ship it back to Ilio. I can't give to anyone else or sell to anyone once I'm through with it. If I use your sounds on a recording I may have to credit Ilio, etc... I can see who all of this benefits, and it ain't me. I'm sure Ilio isn't the only publisher doing this, but I find this completely unacceptable and I refuse to throw my money away. I will own none of these disks. Of course, I could buy them mail order, not register my purchase, and play frisbee with them if I wanted! And how much money am I going to have tied up in these disks? What a screwfest!

 

2. Kurzweil Kx00 pricing. Oh sure, they make great products, and I own them too. But...when they come out with that (mythical) K3000XS priced at $7700, I guarantee I'm not going to buy it. Enough is enough YC. Quit gouging your faithful customers. Those "special" prices made your products finally reasonably priced. They competed with Korg, Roland, and other manufacturer's products. I see now the prices are going back up, and I think they are back to being unreasonable. And your "upgrade" prices are totally ridiculous! $380 for an 8-meg orchestral rom for the K2600 that was sampled in what 1990? Please... Kurzweil I want to hate you in the worst way.

 

3. Religious books masquerading as trade magazines. I'm talking Korg and Roland now... I trust nothing I read in these things. But, hey, wait a minute, I've never been able to stomach reading one completely! Never mind.

 

 

Ok folks, what do you say to that?!

[SolipsismX]

I totally agree that keyboards are too complicated. A lot of them have tons of options, but an option or action that seems like it should be simple never is. This goes for a lot of software too. Pro tools has a bunch of little annoyances that add up to one big nightmare. I still haven't found a great midi and notation program. I've used finale and digital performer (and took some classes on them) and I still have some problems using them. The problem is because they think I'm going to dedicate 2 weeks traight on just learning every single shortcut key and hidden option, but they don't realize I have a bunch of other synths and software to deal with. I'd love to buy a modular type keyboard like the nord (or a moog if i could find one and afford it) but I don't have the time to learn it.

As for vaporware, I don't mind when a company hypes a product. In fact I rather enjoy knowing when a new product comes out ahead of time. I bought a k2500XS the 3rd quarter of 1999 and just a few months later they announced and released the 2600. I'm sure there are a ton of BBS's and magazines, but it's hard to keep up. I just wish they'd put out realistic release dates ON THE OFFICIAL SITE and release the synth with the full version. I DON'T MIND WAITING FOR A SYNTH THAT WORKS!!!

[dansouth]

I've covered this in another thread, so I'll just touch on it here. Wimpy, compressed, stretched samples. I know it's difficult to record quality, chromatic samples at multiple dynamic levels that blend together well in multiple contexts, but it's no more difficult than trying to make a good sounding, virtual acoustic recording with teeny-weeny samples. I want every note sampled twice, at p, mp, mf, and f, with a generous helping of special effects sounds. Plus I want a sample that will only load the notes I need.

 

In the future, I want a sampler that will permit me to choose from a variety of vary attacks and samples for any given note to make it sound more like a real player, rather than the same copy of an Ab over and over again.

 

The vaporware issues is a complex one. If you don't announce early enough, consumers will hold out for that inferior, super-hyped product that's seen in all of those nifty vapor ads. Darla and Layla come to mind. Nobody would buy a sound card, because they were all holding out for the mythical Layla. When the vapor sisters finally came to market, MOTU was poised to kick their tushes with the 2408. That made me very happy.

 

I want to know what's coming down the pike. On the other hand, I don't want to be promised something that can't be delivered. And I also don't want to see manufacturers lose their competitive edge by having to announce breakthroughs too early in the development stage. As a rule of thumb, if you can deliver it within six months, go ahead and start advertising it.

[lrossmusic]

I have to agree with GusTraX.

 

My #1 biggest complaint of all time:

 

OWNER'S MANUALS

 

Even if companies offered well thought out manuals as an optional accessory, I would be more than happy to pay the additional cost. Nothing has been more frustrating over the years, believe me. One of my older buddies called me with the same problem once. He was so frustrated that he was about to throw the keyboard or whatever it was off the balcony. )