wilpye Posted June 16, 2001 Author Share Posted June 16, 2001 Tedster... Thanx but your advice is a little late. My big response to you just went kaplooie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFTurner Posted June 16, 2001 Share Posted June 16, 2001 Yeah you might want to work the long stuff from an editor and paste it in or at least copy your text before you hit submit reply... I've had the system just go kaphooey at times and lost a lot of typing and the train of thought that went with it. Very frustrating. Still mullin and here just for a moment. Doing the grandson and wife on vacation thing today. I'll have more time come Monday. ------------------ William F. Turner Songwriter turnermusic William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 17, 2001 Author Share Posted June 17, 2001 WF, I say kaplooie! you say kaphooey! I say tomahto, You say tomayto... Monday it is! Zap. If you like I'll send my E-mail address to you (thru your site) & you can fire back to me a MIDI file of your choosing (a general MIDI is best, other wise create a track list so I know what's what). I'll split that one song into a MIDI file with enharmonic tracks properly separated and ready to play back (with instructions how to tune the user table values). Tah-dah. Then you'll soon have the 2 sets of stereo digital tracks ready to mix down to a final true stereo file. You can also detect from what I did how the wolf rules are observed. (i.e. When do you want a 294 to sound versus the 306?) That would help get you over the time hump..... Any audio files (if any) added later would naturally need to be running in congress, and would have to be AutoTuned to match the bed of MIDI instruments (but you knew that...) This message has been edited by wilpye on 06-17-2001 at 04:39 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 17, 2001 Share Posted June 17, 2001 Originally posted by Tedster: Mr. Wil... Whatever you do, don't forget to enter your name and password before writing one of those lo-ooong posts. Double, no, triple check, even. This message board will send your prose off to the Bermuda Triangle if you do forget...and after typing a heee-YOOOGE post, it would be disastrous. Just a word of caution from someone who's been there... I've been there too! For some reason, the reply sheet automatically puts my email address instead of my UserName. I don't know why this happened. It wasn't that way originally. The weird part is, for some reason I was unable to enter the forums in the IE stand alone program for a while. I could still enter through my AOL account's embedded IE. The reason I mention it is, when I goofed up in AOL IE, I WAS able to back up without losing the original text! Can anyone explain this, so we all can take advantage without being in AOL? Wilpye, thanks for including me. I certainly don't want you to risk any unprotected property, so I will be patient. (I will be patient, I will be patient! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif ) I can't wait to see them, so I'll be experimenting with the E chord you wrote out, to hear the sound of the Bytone major chord. Have you contacted Lightwave about the feasability of your program on a daughterboard? Am I asking questions too close to endangering your property? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif I'm sure you'll let me know. ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 17, 2001 Author Share Posted June 17, 2001 Fantasticsound. In real parlance, the mother patent actually shows the instruments (they do work) that a person needs to see to reproduce the 'art' behind the invention. At the time, I was busy working out prototypes for the instruments of the orchestra more so than the modern rock band's big two: Guitars & Keyboards. So I filed the mother patent and THEN really began souping up these latter two. I eventually went beyond the embodiments described and the new ones are not public yet. But it's no big deal. In the patent I show a pudding, the newer instruments in patents to follow will show a pudding with whipped cream on top. Tinker, tinker, toil & trouble... And no, the lightwave concepts we discussed on the forum are not patentable. This is what is called utilization of a prior art. Using the lightwave pickups (a prior art) to produce Bytone soundwaves organized to the particulars of the mother patent (which itself now is a prior art) will not necessarily lead to lawsuits in and of itself. It's the soundwaves produced (however produced) that would potentially infringe. Anyone who buys and uses AutoTune to crank out the Bytone soundwaves and wants to make money off these waves without fairly dealing with IBICC will unleash that pack of lawyers I'm always chattering about. All we did in the thread was figure out another way to produce the same bunch of specialized soundwaves that an AutoTune program (another prior art) would spit out at a computer; but following YOUR lead, we can also move the process to the guitar to increase efficiency. In other words, the protected soundwaves already existed before the forum, and figuring out that a great way to initiate them was to use AutoTune (which can do many other things than generate Bytone scales) certainly causes no liability to Antares. And the hoped for success of Bytone will lift Antares's and IBICC's boats together. We in effect will love each other like kissin cousins. Communication with Lightwave (who I repeat I never knew from kokomo before the forum) of course is a natural. IBICC's technology, together with Lightwave's patents & technology, will do both sides a lot of good. Another case of kissin cousins. If they are selling stock, buy a little now.. Or at least first thing Monday morning. However, it would be inappropriate for me not to do something nice back for those who do something nice for the IBICC membership and our goals. One day they might have a big screen version playing about all this. Hey buddy! I'm talking history. And you'll have more to look back on than just saying "So & so played me in the movie!" Can I leave it at that? Otherwise I'd be posturing... Besides, the world may decide it wants to stick 100% with equal temperament another few hundred years. And you can tell YOUR grandkids what could have been. I honor the tale of the little red hen. Those who join in as time tumbles along to help bake the IBICC cake will naturally sit at the table to eat it; shoulder to shoulder with their sisters and brothers. More business 101... I hope most of you understand when I ramble on like this. This message has been edited by wilpye on 06-17-2001 at 03:17 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 17, 2001 Author Share Posted June 17, 2001 Zap! I have totally updated and revised my response to you posted 06-16-2001 02:27 PM. Please read it again unless you have seen the revisions. (To not bog down general readers I avoided being too technical, and that was not good enough to convey the intended issues.) I join your three sons in wishing you a Happy Father's Day! This message has been edited by wilpye on 06-17-2001 at 04:31 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Did it AGAIN!!! AUUUUGGHHH! (Not in AOL!) As I said a moment ago... Happy Father's Day! (Although I'm late!) My question referred to the feasiblility of a Lightwave pickup/ Bytone auto-tuning daughterboard. Have you actually put the notion to them. I'd love to hear their response, given the unique ability of the Lightwave pickup system to incorporate your ideas, and the out of the box thinking that went into their own product. Like you said, kissin' cousins! I hope you move quickly, as I've been offered a road gig with a nat'l country act. I'll be around for the next 2 weeks, but after that it will be difficult to access the net. Good luck! ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 18, 2001 Author Share Posted June 18, 2001 fantasticsound. Whew! Holidays are tuff. My better half & I were blessed with 7 offspring, so I've had a busy day. The Huns descend on Rome... >>>I hope you move quickly<<< After this thread winds down, which I expect to be soon, I doubt there will be much IBICC gossip going on. Myself & crew will have sleeves up & will be in the trenches. This will change when we actually begin to toot our cannons publicly. A long way away..... For a response from Lightwave, I'm afraid I can't throw much out to the forum. I can say that I myself (and/or IBICC reps) expect to meet with the founder of Lightwave Chris Wilcox by July to at least have a set of common goals clarified. To move it forward, it will be up to IBICC to select and engage one of the various tuning companies (to port a streamlined version of their code over to the proposed daughterboard) to handle the on the fly (realtime) conversions. Although I constantly mention AutoTune, keep in mind that Intonator from TC Electronics, Arboretum's Harmony, and Pitchdoctor from Wavemechanics ultimately may be the most suitable program. So there's a lot of side issues to be resolved before Lightwave can even begin to sink their teeth into R&D for the daughterboard. Obviously it will be many months before the first proto guitars are available. IBICC's only hassle will be in finding beta-testers to really give these first guitars a spankin'. (Hey, maybe you'll be back off the road by then...?) >>>I can't wait to see them, so I'll be experimenting with the E chord you wrote out, to hear the sound of the Bytone major chord.<<< Well, you're still with us, so I take it you did hear something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBP Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Yo, I'd love a shot at one of those guitars. My real interest though is to get one of those in a bass configuration. The Light Wave system sounds awesome. PS I'm looking over my ASCAP contracts, any suggestions? kboyproductions@hotmail.com KBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Fantastic Neil said... >>>>I've been there too! For some reason, the reply sheet automatically puts my email address instead of my UserName. I don't know why this happened. It wasn't that way originally. The weird part is, for some reason I was unable to enter the forums in the IE stand alone program for a while. I could still enter through my AOL account's embedded IE. The reason I mention it is, when I goofed up in AOL IE, I WAS able to back up without losing the original text! Can anyone explain this, so we all can take advantage without being in AOL? It's one of those stupid "cookie" things...somewhere, somehow, you inadvertently told it to remember your email (which was probably your first username before you changed it). If you're logging on to the musicplayer.com page when you enter (in order to autolog in for the contests) that will do it, too... I guess you have to "Delete Cookies" and start again. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Wilpye: Will all due respect, I fail to see how you are going to take an alternate tuning method and a couple of patents for instruments that utilize said tunings and turn that around and into a performance rights type of scenario. I'll freely admit that I am "late to the party" here and that I read through all of these posts rather quickly (hey, it's now 5:25 AM and I have not been to bed yet...) AND that I have not gone and checked all of the hyperlinks... Could you please, in as concise a manner as possible (and people said *I* wrote long posts! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif ) explain that aspect of what you are proposing? If you can give that much to me in "abstract" format, I promise I'll attempt to read all of the material more completly over the next couple of days - deal? Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html pokeefe777@msn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Originally posted by Tedster: Fantastic Neil said... >>>>I've been there too! For some reason, the reply sheet automatically puts my email address instead of my UserName. I don't know why this happened. It wasn't that way originally. The weird part is, for some reason I was unable to enter the forums in the IE stand alone program for a while. I could still enter through my AOL account's embedded IE. The reason I mention it is, when I goofed up in AOL IE, I WAS able to back up without losing the original text! Can anyone explain this, so we all can take advantage without being in AOL? It's one of those stupid "cookie" things...somewhere, somehow, you inadvertently told it to remember your email (which was probably your first username before you changed it). If you're logging on to the musicplayer.com page when you enter (in order to autolog in for the contests) that will do it, too... I guess you have to "Delete Cookies" and start again. Thanks Ted. I see your point. Question is.. can I remember my name and password after bein' lazy and letting the computer remember for me! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudyba Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 I've been there too! For some reason, the reply sheet automatically puts my email address instead of my UserName. I don't know why this happened. It wasn't that way originally. The weird part is, for some reason I was unable to enter the forums in the IE stand alone program for a while. I could still enter through my AOL account's embedded IE. The reason I mention it is, when I goofed up in AOL IE, I WAS able to back up without losing the original text! Can anyone explain this, so we all can take advantage without being in AOL? IE (and hence AOL) recalls what was typed when clicking the Back button. Netscape does not (intentionally). To get rid of your email address from appearing in the Forum UserName box, clear your cookies by clicking on the "preferences" link (at the top middle) or click HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Originally posted by pokeefe777@msn.com: Wilpye: Will all due respect, I fail to see how you are going to take an alternate tuning method and a couple of patents for instruments that utilize said tunings and turn that around and into a performance rights type of scenario. I'll freely admit that I am "late to the party" here and that I read through all of these posts rather quickly (hey, it's now 5:25 AM and I have not been to bed yet...) AND that I have not gone and checked all of the hyperlinks... Could you please, in as concise a manner as possible (and people said *I* wrote long posts! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif ) explain that aspect of what you are proposing? If you can give that much to me in "abstract" format, I promise I'll attempt to read all of the material more completly over the next couple of days - deal? Phil O'Keefe If I may... and you won't hurt my feelings Wil if you must correct any of this. Phil, the mother patent covers the tuning method Wil calls the Bytone scale. (As well as some real instrument construction and use.) Because the scale itself is Wil's intellectual property, any incorporation or use of it within commercially available music must have permission to use it. This is true whether an instrument on the recording uses bytone, or we run a completed master through a Bytone re-tuning box similar to using an Antares, TC Intonator, etc. But Wil isn't interested in taking our money to use his tuning. Quite the opposite. He wants radio, TV, etc. to pay money to the creator of each and EVERY song they play. With the incorporation of: digital watermarking any Bytone altered releasesinsisting that radio, TV, etc. utilize a watermark recognition program to identify actual plays of these releases Wil's Bytone organization can pay out a royalty to the creators directly. No more hoping your song (which you may have heard on radio.) is picked up by the PRO's radar (As Wil puts it, ASCAP, BMI, etc.) to get compensated. The beauty is, this scenario doesn't interfere with the PRO's from continuing to gather and disperse royalties their way, to those who would get it anyway. This seems to be a viable way to include the MP3.com crowd in performance royalties, in a fair and consistant manner. All you have to do is use Bytone with the watermarking in your master, and the elements are in place for you to reap the rewards, so long as the patent rights belong to Wil's organization. I believe he mentioned 2020 as the expiration on the mother patent. Does this clarify the business reasons for Wil's idea? Have I done justice to your ideas and implementation, Wil? Let me know boys. ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Originally posted by wilpye: fantasticsound. Whew! Holidays are tuff. My better half & I were blessed with 7 offspring, so I've had a busy day. The Huns descend on Rome... ...Obviously it will be many months before the first proto guitars are available. IBICC's only hassle will be in finding beta-testers to really give these first guitars a spankin'. (Hey, maybe you'll be back off the road by then...?) I'd love to put them to a few guitarists, bassists, and keyboard players I know in Nashville, and of course I'd love to experiment with one! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif >>>I can't wait to see them, so I'll be experimenting with the E chord you wrote out, to hear the sound of the Bytone major chord.<<< Well, you're still with us, so I take it you did hear something? Sorry!!! I can't comment. I've been sick as a dog the past few days. I ended up in the ER, Friday night. My back was not happy, so playing guitar was not at the top of my list! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I'll check the tuning out today and write back. ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Originally posted by kudyba: IE (and hence AOL) recalls what was typed when clicking the Back button. Netscape does not (intentionally). Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, IE does NOT recall on it's own. That is what has me confused. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif Only the embedded IE within AOL remembers with the back button. I haven't a clue why. Thanks again. Sorry to send this thread into the nether world, Wil. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Oh, I'm sorry, we were already in the nether world, according to some! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFTurner Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 OK Wilpye, I guess to start out with I have one question, hope it don't seem too stupid. Take the progression: C\C\E\E7\Am\Am\F\G7\C\C\D\D7\F\G7\C The progression is in C major but goes to E major to E dominant 7th and later to D major to D dominat 7th. How will the ByTone System work with those changes? I think technically, if you embrace music theory in a very academic and scholarly fashion those are considered modulations. Will the Bytone System treat them as such? If so, and I'm playing a Chet Atkins, Merle Travis finger picking, ragtime type of guitar over that progression, how will a Bytone instrument trigger those type of scale changes.... in realtime? Personally I look at them in a simpler way... rather than thinking in terms of modulation I just look at them as part of the realm of possibility's while I'm playing in the key of C major.... the scale notes of C major and the other (black key) notes that make up the 12 tones available. In the regular tuning I now am used to, the simpler outlook works just fine. If I keep my simple man's outlook in the Bytone System will those formations sound pukey? Further more in dealing with modulations, consider the original progression: C\C\E\E7\Am\Am\F\G7\C\C\D\D7\F\G7\C And add the following, a modulation to D major: A7\D\D\G\G\A\A7\D And then another modulation to E major: B7\E\E\A\A\F#\F#7\B finally a two measure modulation: D7\G7 back to the original: C\C\E\E7\Am\AM\F\G7\C\C\D\D7\F\G7\C How do I and the Bytone instrument deal with this all in realtime? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ------------------ William F. Turner Songwriter turnermusic This message has been edited by WFTurner on 06-18-2001 at 01:53 PM William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 18, 2001 Author Share Posted June 18, 2001 KBP. Your wish is my command. I've entered your address on the comp list for the baddest Lightwave bass w/Bytone that will be available. (IBICC will consult with you later for what Model/Manufacturer you want the system on.) Hey, it'll still do equal temperament so you'll have both worlds at your fingertips. Congrats, you've earned it! (And a little more. Later.) WF! Take your time & keep thinkin'. Whenever you report back in with feedback is cool. Keep relaxin & your noggin in gear. Wil (Alert!) Goodness. I posted the above without seeing all the responses that have come in today. We're into a second page. WF, I'll read your post & all the rest on the chopper. Gotta go... (Back online in a few hours to respond to everyone.) This message has been edited by wilpye on 06-18-2001 at 02:47 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecreationalThinker Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Hey Wilpye, How about a ByTone saxophone while you're at it? I'm not a "people" person, I'm a "thing" person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 18, 2001 Author Share Posted June 18, 2001 RecreationalThinker. Saxophone? But of course! Check out the ferocious, hard-to-read patent for details on how to build one. Bytone is for every instrument that is "fixed' pitch. I Must, Must, Must go.. This message has been edited by wilpye on 06-18-2001 at 06:57 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted June 18, 2001 Share Posted June 18, 2001 Fantastic, Thanks - that's exactly what I was looking for. Phil O'Keefe Sound Sanctuary Recording Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html pokeefe777@msn.com Originally posted by fantasticsound: If I may... and you won't hurt my feelings Wil if you must correct any of this. Phil, the mother patent covers the tuning method Wil calls the Bytone scale. (As well as some real instrument construction and use.) Because the scale itself is Wil's intellectual property, any incorporation or use of it within commercially available music must have permission to use it. This is true whether an instrument on the recording uses bytone, or we run a completed master through a Bytone re-tuning box similar to using an Antares, TC Intonator, etc. But Wil isn't interested in taking our money to use his tuning. Quite the opposite. He wants radio, TV, etc. to pay money to the creator of each and EVERY song they play. With the incorporation of: digital watermarking any Bytone altered releasesinsisting that radio, TV, etc. utilize a watermark recognition program to identify actual plays of these releases Wil's Bytone organization can pay out a royalty to the creators directly. No more hoping your song (which you may have heard on radio.) is picked up by the PRO's radar (As Wil puts it, ASCAP, BMI, etc.) to get compensated. The beauty is, this scenario doesn't interfere with the PRO's from continuing to gather and disperse royalties their way, to those who would get it anyway. This seems to be a viable way to include the MP3.com crowd in performance royalties, in a fair and consistant manner. All you have to do is use Bytone with the watermarking in your master, and the elements are in place for you to reap the rewards, so long as the patent rights belong to Wil's organization. I believe he mentioned 2020 as the expiration on the mother patent. Does this clarify the business reasons for Wil's idea? Have I done justice to your ideas and implementation, Wil? Let me know boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 fantasticsound seems to have answered Phil to his satisfaction so I'll move on, but the answer says >>>insisting that radio, TV, etc. utilize a watermark recognition program to identify actual plays of these releases<<< Correction: We don't need to insist the broadcasters do this, because the watermark is there already. Our submarines are ALWAYS trolling off their port bow using sonar to track every time one of the membership's songs are broadcast ANYWHERE. A record of this is on the home IBICC network for members to peruse even before the broadcaster gets their billing statement. I again refer everyone to the Verance webpage if you don't understand this. >>>we were already in the nether world, according to some!<<< Yes we are, but what a wonderful world it is, fantasticsound... (Once again I must refer everyone to Fig 1 of the mother patent if you choose to follow this message to WF.) Attention! Despite how complicated this seems at 1st peek, if you play guitar already, a person playing a typical three chord song C, F, & G rarely ever taps a single pedal. WF asks >>>C\C\E\E7\Am\Am\F\G7\C\C\D\D7\F\G7\C The progression is in C major but goes to E major to E dominant 7th and later to D major to D dominat 7th. How do I and the Bytone instrument deal with this all in realtime?<<< WF. With a chromatic (12 pitch only) guitar there has to be an operator introduced signal to 'tell' the guitar to change it's tuning basis. I've already listed earlier the 12 pitches of the Bytone C & F# straight (major) scale. In Nashville numbers your progression is: 1, 1, 2, 2(7), 6-.6-,4,5(7),1, 1, 2, 2(7), 4, 5(7), 1 (Really, a 2(7) is just written '27' but I'm trying to keep it simple.) ((Alert! WF, I'm weary. This is a later correction. Your progression was for an E chord (a '3' in Nashville Numbers) and I misread it as a '2') Hopefully you can see that to have gone to a 3 major the pedal you would tap would be the third from the right (and then to the 6 root 894!that it wants to hear) on the next rightmost pedal)) There are eight! (don't freak out) core footpedals you will need to tap to TOTALLY correct the straight major to adjust for fringe notes that alter. ((There are a few rules to cover usage of the TWO types of D pitches (204 & 192) and the reflective pitches (804 & 792) but I won't go there.)) A seventh special pedal 'bar' runs along above the primary eight pedals that 'flips' the output to the tall minor scale. If you shift your foot enough to tap both the C pedal and the bar above it, the 12 pitches the guitar delivers are the tall minor collection using the C or F# as the root. One last thing, unless you need the usually obscure fringe notes, most times you won't even bother tapping a pedal when you change chords. So don't think (based on what you just read) you've GOT to constantly tap pedals. NO NO NO. But to go to one of the few 'wolf' centers, like D, you DO have to tap it in. The pedals read left to right in Nashville Numbers: ((flatted b3 & 6)) wolf (2 & b6) (b2 & 5) (1 & b5) (4 & 7) (3 & b7) (b3 & 6) wolf ((2 & b6)) Before the song starts you tap in the key signature to the guitar and that becomes the '1'. Since you're in C you set it up that way. WF, your progression calls for a wolf right away, (the 2) so tap it in (next to last pedal on the left) and that D chord will sound GRRRRReat. The guitar is all set for that 7th note in the next measure so no need to worry there. Your next change is the 6-, and the wolf rule is go to the 6 that the 204 wants to hear (906) so your pedal tap is to the far left (Also include the minor 'bar' when you make that tap to kick things up to the tall minor.) Next you want to go to the 4 chord F, so if you need a fringe note in your voicing tap the 4 pedal 'without the bar', (to disengage the minor scale), otherwise most savvy players will simply return to the 1 pedal. Why? Because almost everything you do on the 1, 4, & 5 is correct when the 1 pedal is lit up & controlling the scale. So next you go to a 5 in your progression, which you COULD tap in with the 5 pedal, (but if you'd gone to the 1 pedal earlier with your savvy maneuver, it would let you strum or pick out your 5 voicing without hassle most of the time.) YOU WILL QUICKLY LEARN when a pedal flip is needed. This is not weeks of effort. Your ears will quickly teach you the particular voicings that might produce a wolf (ouch!) and before long everything you're doing sings... And I'll stop there. No matter how complicated your song is, you can work it out in your mind in real time with a little reinforcement from the wolves. No way do I recommend the Bytone guitar for beginners. This is for serious musicians looking to take it to a higher level. Learn to play a guitar, THEN reverently approach Bytone (and it will smile back at you). ((Postscript! Crafty realtime players will soon discover that the straight major scale is designed for (in your example) a C or F# chord (major) voicing, but also is already correct 'as is' for the any E & bB chord voicings using the tall minor scale. NO footshifting required.)) This message has been edited by wilpye on 06-18-2001 at 09:27 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudyba Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 Originally posted by fantasticsound: Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, IE does NOT recall on it's own. That is what has me confused. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/confused.gif Only the embedded IE within AOL remembers with the back button. I haven't a clue why. Thanks again. Sorry to send this thread into the nether world, Wil. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Oh, I'm sorry, we were already in the nether world, according to some! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Rats you're right. Check out THIS THREAD that includes some quotes and references to the Microsoft Knowlege Base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 WF. You have challenged the modulation laws in a clever way. Never attempt to pass yourself off as a 'JoeGoSlow' again. (I'm wise to you!) If this was Just Intonation (which Bytone is not) the tuning would have ensnared itself. I finally had the time to examine the rest of your changes & saw the sneaky trap you were setting up: >>>And then another modulation to E major: B7\E\E\A\A\F#\F#7\B finally a two measure modulation: D7\G7<<< What saves the day for Bytone is when you reach the F#, you are pulled back by a force of nature (like going over a waterfall) back to the 1 pedal. Because unlike in just intonation (where the two wolf F#'s are two of the most 'distant' modulation centers), with Bytone whenever the score attempts a disconnection of this nature tonality is re-established. This is one of the coolest, deepest, and beneficial aspects of Bytone. You can't dance away from your partner, the key signature, unless of course you just decide to pedal away to the extremes and keep going (just to be ornery). In theory the strings of perfect fifths of Bytone reach to infinity. But in actual practice, like the planets revolving around the sun, the TWO tonics (in your example C AND F#) keep each other in check. (Remember that's why we call it BY-TONE, there's 2 tonics.) The solution to your progression is from the B7 (pedal IV, or 4 & 7) to the E (pedal III, or 3 & b7) to the A (pedal VI, or b3 & 6) to the F# (pedal I, or 1 & b5) to the B back to (pedal IV, or 4 & 7) on to D7 (pedal II, or 2 & b6) and concluding with G7 (pedal V, or b2 & 5). Child's play for Bytone. Keep your music focused on the tonic pair, observe the wolf rules, and it will all become second nature for you in no time. Most players would & will play equal temperament & let the engineers 'fix it in the mix'. I believe I see now that your pride would never settle for that... This message has been edited by wilpye on 06-19-2001 at 05:58 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFTurner Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 >>Most players would & will play equal temperament & let the engineers 'fix it in the mix'. I believe I see now that your pride would never settle for that...<< No that's not really so at this point of the discussion. In the first thread, which started seeming about someone with perfect pitch wanting to tune my out of tune guitar's, sure I'd never settle for that. But after hearing the rest of the story... ie... the Bytone System... I'm very open minded, though yes I certainly have enough pride that I want to be able to play the instrument. If you're gonna have a CD of Bytone music you have to be able to support it... in my book. Thanks for the answers, which will now return me to mulling mode for a bit. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ------------------ William F. Turner Songwriter turnermusic William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFTurner Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 >>I finally had the time to examine the rest of your changes & saw the sneaky trap you were setting up:<< Not really a trap so to speak. My songwriting, lyrical based music, I use modulation in a simple and general and much like other songwriters do sense. My instrumental music, likewise upon a listen comes off as a somewhat simple work but under it all I use a much more complex style of modulation. So the progression I offered you is very much how I approach instrumental music. ------------------ William F. Turner Songwriter turnermusic William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 WF says >>>My instrumental music, likewise upon a listen comes off as a somewhat simple work but under it all I use a much more complex style of modulation.<<< You're not kidding about a complex style of modulation. That example had shivers of fear running up my back.... Keep in mind that in my last post when I said go to pedals B7 (pedal IV) to the E (pedal III) to the A (pedal VI): The crafty player with forsight sees that these three pedals are adjacent, & usually only has to tap the centermost one (in this case the III) to handle all three chord changes (the B chord, the E chord, & the A chord.) Not as complicated as all that. WF, you continue to push those mental gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Poff Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 apology accepted This message has been edited by Jason Poff on 06-19-2001 at 05:52 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilpye Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 Jason. I'm serious. I would NEVER have put that in there as an insult. I admire anybody who sticks to his guns. I hoped you would have a good laugh, & I was only ribbing you with affection. You seemed to be in the guns & roses mold & what the heck's wrong with that? I have nothing good to say about close minded people. How far would IBICC get if all we can talk to is close minded people? I really hope one day you & I get on the same wavelength... Anyway, I'm extending a formal apology to you right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasticsound Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 Originally posted by kudyba: Rats you're right. Check out THIS THREAD that includes some quotes and references to the Microsoft Knowlege Base. Thanks, I'll check it out. I think you were right the first time. Erase any musicplayer cookies and start over. I finally remember to change it (This only happens on the first post of a session.) so it may be easier to live with it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif ------------------ Neil Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity. It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman Soundclick fntstcsnd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.