paulisdead Posted February 23, 2004 Author Share Posted February 23, 2004 Originally posted by Lee Flier: Probably by sticking a couple of mics in front of Keith Moon who had a drum kit that sounded like that. So, Keith's drum kit is tuned like that. If so then how come on some of the Kinks early recordings with Shel Talmy, they have a similiar drum sound? Did Shel get his drummers to tune thier drums like that? I can hear a lot of compression on the kit also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atatdotdot Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Hello everyone, this is my first post. Just about to construct a temporary bedroom studio in a couple of weeks to do an EP with my band, Free Flights Up. Seeing discussion on here about using a AT4033 on kick drum got me interested; I have this mic available but would never have thought of using it on a kick drum! Surely you wouldn't put this delicate mic inside or up against the drum? I know it can handle 145dB SPL but this is at 1kHz; would the huge wafts of air coming from a kick not surely damage it? Are those who talk about using a condenser like this on kick drum talking about using it as a second mic, a number of feet in front of the drum? What is the principle with this technique? As an aside, for overheads would AKG C1000s be preferable to AT4033s? I have a pair of each available. Thanks all! Andy http://www.freeflightsup.org.uk/ http://www.buchanans.org.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Welcome adatdotdot. I don't know if I'd put a 4033 inside of a kick drum. Although some condensors can handle it just fine, usually they are used at least a couple of feet OUTside of the drum. And definitely I'd use the 4033's as overheads, they're WAY superior to the C1000's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atatdotdot Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Originally posted by Lee Flier: Welcome adatdotdot. I don't know if I'd put a 4033 inside of a kick drum. Although some condensors can handle it just fine, usually they are used at least a couple of feet OUTside of the drum. And definitely I'd use the 4033's as overheads, they're WAY superior to the C1000's.Thanks for your quick reply! "ADAT.." is quite amusing actually ;-) I know that the 4033 ought to be in principle a better mic than the C1000, but the reason I ask is because I've done two projects before, one with AT33as and other with AT4033s. I know it could have been down to all manner of things like room (they were different rooms), mic positioning (they weren't identical) and the drums and cymbals themselves, but I felt that the 33as gave an overall better sound. The 4033s were certainly "clearer" and "airier", but the 33as seemed to have more bite to them and made the cymbals sound more alive. This made me think that it was something to do with small vs. large diaphragm condenser which is why I was considering using the C1000s. I've also read elsewhere on this forum that small diaphragm is generally preferred for overheads and large diaphragm for room mics (I wouldn't have room mics, though). Sorry for the muddled mess of thoughts! What do you reckon about any or all of that? Cheers! Andy http://www.freeflightsup.org.uk/ http://www.buchanans.org.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Originally posted by Lee Flier: OK, I think we've made it clear that most people do use condensers on drums. Now to answer the question....heheh. Hey Paulisdead, yes, most of the 60's drums were recorded using only 2 or 3 mics. Ribbon mics like the Coles 4038 were very popular, and I still think ribbons sound great on drums - I have a Beyer M160 which is cheaper than the Coles, but sounds great... I mean hey, Led Zep's "When The Levee Breaks" used two of these on the drums, and nothing else. Nuff said. Most of the studio shots I've seen of Ringo show one mic at about his ear level, centered over the snare more or less, and the other out in the room a bit. Glyn Johns recorded Keith Moon with 3 mics, 2 of them more or less overhead and one room mic out a few feet in front of the kick. Really the best way to get the sounds is to walk around with a mic while the drummer plays and listen until you end up with it in a good spot. Sometimes even a few inches can make all the difference. Also, the drum kit itself is really important in getting that sound. Gotta have smaller drums with fresh heads and no muffling, and know how to tune them right. And of course, the right drummer is very key also! The Who and a lot of the other 60's bands also used a ton of plate reverb and compressed the crap out of it. That's such an exciting sound! You can check out my band's web site if you want, there are a lot of MP3's on there and we go for a very 60's sound. Good luck!Let's encourage Lee to do some freelance work for UEM publications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 Originally posted by atatdotdot: Thanks for your quick reply! "ADAT.." is quite amusing actually ;-)LOL yeah that IS a pretty amusing typo! I know that the 4033 ought to be in principle a better mic than the C1000, but the reason I ask is because I've done two projects before, one with AT33as and other with AT4033s. I know it could have been down to all manner of things like room (they were different rooms), mic positioning (they weren't identical) and the drums and cymbals themselves, but I felt that the 33as gave an overall better sound. The 4033s were certainly "clearer" and "airier", but the 33as seemed to have more bite to them and made the cymbals sound more alive. This made me think that it was something to do with small vs. large diaphragm condenser which is why I was considering using the C1000s. I've also read elsewhere on this forum that small diaphragm is generally preferred for overheads and large diaphragm for room mics (I wouldn't have room mics, though). Sorry for the muddled mess of thoughts! What do you reckon about any or all of that? Well, you're right that small diaphragms are commonly used for overheads, however that's by no means a hard and fast rule. LOTS of people use LD's, it really just depends on the sound you're going for. That having been said... even if you prefer to use small diaphragms for OH, you would be shooting yourself in the foot to choose a crappy small diaphragm mic over a better large diaphragm. And in my opinion, the C1000 just ain't a good mic for overheads, in fact I've not found them to be much use for anything. I think you will find them very brittle and thin sounding compared to the 4033's. If you're looking for a pair of dirt cheap small diaphragm mics that would be more suitable for overheads, you might look at a pair of Oktava MC012's. Or you might save your money for a pair of really nice SD's, and use the 4033's in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 me thinks paul played the kit on back in the ussr as well... -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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