Super JX’s don’t age …

[Sundown]

Hey all,

 

I visited a Guitar Center the other day after a very long hiatus (~8 years or more), and they had a used Roland Super JX on sale for just short of $1,200. It didn’t have the Vecoven firmware upgrade or the new bright, flashy LCD you can get, but it was in pretty good shape.

 

What blew me away was the keyboard action … Here’s a ~1986 instrument with an action that feels like it’s brand new. Roland would not disappoint any synth owners by resurrecting that JX-10/A-50 action on a modern instrument. It has a very distinct, comfortable, professional feel that I’m accustomed to. 

 

Not bad for an instrument that is close to 40 years-old.

 

Todd

[Stokely]

Man....

I had a Super JX for years in the mid 80s through the 90s.

I loved the action, but I had a problem with a number of keys going out.  My best guess was that the contact strip under the keys got damaged or some dust got in there.   Granted I did not do a very good job of covering it/keeping dust out of it, but I recall this was a particular problem of some of the Rolands of that time.   I never did take it in to get repaired.   I paired it with a Kawai and then  ith an e-mu Proteus which handled the pianos/organ sounds and that was a pretty nice rig for a few years.

That's amazing to see one in good shape in the wild like that.  It was quite a versatile keyboard, it could a passable piano or ep and even organ, and of course "analog" sounds.   I frankly admit to over-using patch C-5 "poly synth" on many a song.....

Not surprisingly, on my current Fantom I'm gravitating toward using the JX8 and JX3p models.   

[Jim Alfredson]

The current state of synth actions compared to the 80s is pretty sad. 

[analogika]

I loved the action on my JX10. The synth itself wasn't quite as bloody useless after I installed the Vecoven upgrade, either. 

 

It was stolen a few years ago, sadly. 

[J.F.N.]

They didn't cut corners in the same way back then... I have a KingKORG, the black one, and I love what you can do with it soundwise, it's my "Analog Substitute" goto, but the problem is the keybed, it's really shit to express it mildly, why on earth make a performance synth (which it was marketed as) for players, and equip it with what I assume is the cheapest keybed you can find!

 

 

[analogika]

11 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

They didn't cut corners in the same way back then...

 

On the hardware, maybe. The software was utterly broken for thirty years, and when it was finally fixed, it was not fixed by Roland. MIDI, patch dumps, SysEx — just unusable beyond basic note on/off. 

I suppose that wasn't "cutting corners" in a sense, though, rather than just not finishing the work once it became clear that, as Roland's last analog synth, the machine was largely irrelevant for a market that had just gone entirely digital in a hurry. 

[J.F.N.]

1 hour ago, analogika said:

 

On the hardware, maybe. The software was utterly broken for thirty years, and when it was finally fixed, it was not fixed by Roland. MIDI, patch dumps, SysEx — just unusable beyond basic note on/off. 

I suppose that wasn't "cutting corners" in a sense, though, rather than just not finishing the work once it became clear that, as Roland's last analog synth, the machine was largely irrelevant for a market that had just gone entirely digital in a hurry. 

 

Yeah, I can imagine software development wasn't as well evolved in general back then compared to today's standards.

 

If i remember correct both the JX boards and the D50 are useless as MIDI boards introducing latency way out of normal measures.

[ProfD]

7 hours ago, Sundown said:

...used Roland Super JX on sale for just short of $1,200.

A 40 year old, used synth on sale.🤣

 

Again, one could buy a brand new Roland capable of covering those sounds and more for about the same price.

 

Nostalgia has to be the only reason folks are paying new gear prices for old KBs. It definitely has nothing to do with making music or sound design.😎

[analogika]

37 minutes ago, ProfD said:

A 40 year old, used synth on sale.🤣

 

Again, one could buy a brand new Roland capable of covering those sounds and more for about the same price.

 

Nostalgia has to be the only reason folks are paying new gear prices for old KBs. It definitely has nothing to do with making music or sound design.😎

 

Dude. Why the fuck would anybody buy a brand new Roland keyboard, given that any entry-level laptop is capable of covering those sounds and more for about the same price? 

[Stokely]

In my case, gigging.  I love soft synths at home but don't want to gig with a laptop.  But point taken.

I would agree that softsynths or probably the Jx08 or my Fantom do a really nice job with the sounds from the Jx10, or at least get a similar thing.   Maybe there are nuances that it had that I'm not remembering, most of my sounds were pretty simple.   Also keep in mind that without the pg800 (and maybe that one comes with it), editing sounds on it was not fun.

[analogika]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

But point taken.

Appreciated. 

 

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

Also keep in mind that without the pg800 (and maybe that one comes with it), editing sounds on it was not fun.

Even WITH the PG-800 (I have two, had a JX-10 and two MKS-70 — one has recently been recovered by police after having been stolen with much of my gear three years ago), it's not fun, because the PG will only edit one of the two tones at a time, and when you switch to the other, the settings of the second one don't reflect the faders and switches on the PG — which is great when you're switching back and forth to tweak and match parameters. 

Also, I never got the hang of having the two tones to a program, and knowing that editing a program meant editing the tones, which would then affect all programs that happened to use that tone… not that I didn't understand that, but… I invariably ended up preferring the JX-8P with its single layer = PG-800 editor interface, and multitracking it when I needed more. 

It somehow doesn't sound as "glittery" as the JX10, despite the latter being ostensibly the same as 2 8P's (and, since Vecoven, actually eating JX-8P patches 1:1), but the direct correlation with the PG and a kind of "oiliness" to the sound meant that the 8P was not in storage when that was plundered by thieves — because I was using it. 

[J.F.N.]

1 hour ago, analogika said:

 

Dude. Why the fuck would anybody buy a brand new Roland keyboard, given that any entry-level laptop is capable of covering those sounds and more for about the same price? 

 

The good thing with Roland's offer is that one can actually choose, computer or not, or both...

 

[brenner13]

Super JX10 was my first real synth, a floor model I had played several times per week on the way home from school for over a year while saving up all of my allowance, grass-mowing, leaf-raking, and snow shoveling funds. I was tempted by a Juno Alpha during the time, but it just didn’t have the mojo that the JX did. So glad I waited for the one I really wanted. Still have it and love it. The slow filter sweeps on this thing are golden. Yep, still have the C5 Poly Synth patch…tweaked a little but still a fave.

I also eventually had some keys go wonky. Back when Roland sold their parts to the general public, I was able to replace a few of the little rubber strips myself and they still work to this day. I scored a PG800 in the 90’s for dirt cheap. Boy that really opened up the programming on the thing, but upgraded with the Vecoven chips so it now responds to SYSEX from the iPad PG800 app. This works so well that I sold the hardware PG800 for the nutty prices they’re getting these days to help fund more gear.

 

I pre-ordered the JX08 soon as it was announced. Love that thing too, and it gets me giddy for those sounds again, and is way easier to program and tweak, but there’s just something about the original that the replicas don’t quite capture. Girth and oomph are descriptives that come to mind. 
 

I never got into VST’s on computers and laptops; the excessive latency of the early years turned me off and I hated the mouse-screen-interface. The iPad finally got me using software. I have a disturbing amount of synth apps and have made some great music with the iPad, but still have not tried any PC or laptop synth set ups. So I’m missing what’s been going on there. Omnisphere has me intrigued where I might give it a go…someday, maybe.

Yes it is nostalgic to wax on about vintage synths, but I love gear. Hardware is my drug of choice.

[marino]

I had mine restored a couple of years ago. Keyboard rebushed (if that's a word), PSU recapped, Vecoven 4.0 installed, PWM cards connected, new batteries for synth and cartridge. It's in fabulous shape now, but sadly, I haven't had the time to play it like it deserves, so I'm going to sell it, as I need both the space and the money.

Curiously, the market for the JX10 seems to be quite slow, here in Italy at least, and sometimes you even see the JX8p at higher prices, which is bizarre.

[YashN]

I got a pristine version of the little brother, the JX-8P. The previous owner kept it well and was looking for a MIDI keyboard, so I exchanged mine for his JX-8P and a small amount of cash.

 

The JX-8P works by default with the iPad controller, the iPad being detected by the iMac via Wi-Fi, and the latter wired by MIDI to the synth.

 

The fun thing with the JX-8P is that there is a fundamental hardware flaw. This is related to how the Oscillators are produced and causes some odd  phasing or cancellation issues from note to note.

 

This flaw is, however, a positive for great pad sounds because of the movement it induces chord to chord.

 

The flaw also prevents the synth to be able to make the same character of bass sound note-to-note (that's a negative here).

 

I keep it just for those dreamy pads. Synth brasses are great too.

 

IIRC the filter chip has an unused output. The synth could be hacked to allow this as well.

[AROIOS]

7 hours ago, ProfD said:

...Nostalgia has to be the only reason folks are paying new gear prices for old KBs. It definitely has nothing to do with making music or sound design.😎

Especially when a great JX-8P emulation is available for free. Layer a few of these and we have a SuperDuperUltraUber JX/MKS stack.

 

[MorayM]

I love PG8X! Simple, lightweight, and it's so hard to make it sound bad.

 

And the JX-8P may have a great action but terrible MIDI, but the A-50 exists and is a MIDI powerhouse!

[Matthiola]

I've owned a JX-10. Sure, it's very limited compared to modern synths and plug-ins. But... that sound. If you ever have the chance to play a super JX, dial in the 'Breathing Brass' patch and play some nice extended chords. It's so lush, warm, organic, I've never heard anything like that again in any modern synth. My Fantom 7 EX has a decent JX8p emulation but it is nowhere near the creaminess of the JX10. I believe a large part of its magic is in the analog chorus. 

[dazzjazz]

Here’s a vote for the action on the Yamaha KX76, probably the same as the original DX7. 

[JoJoB3]

On 9/15/2024 at 2:20 AM, Jim Alfredson said:

The current state of synth actions compared to the 80s is pretty sad. 

Very!

 

(and **** Fatar)

[Mike Martin]

7 hours ago, Matthiola said:

I've owned a JX-10. Sure, it's very limited compared to modern synths and plug-ins. But... that sound. If you ever have the chance to play a super JX, dial in the 'Breathing Brass' patch and play some nice extended chords. It's so lush, warm, organic, I've never heard anything like that again in any modern synth.

 

I sold my MKS-70 a few years ago. One of the few pieces I truly regret selling. I used it for a couple of presets which I deeply sampled. In the process of doing that I learned more about using it than I ever did in the 20+ years I owned it. It had such great character and of course that lovely chorus.

That being said - the PG-8X plug-in is about 97% there - https://sites.google.com/site/mlvst0/

Side by side with all of the recordings I made, it is challenging to tell the difference. 

 

 

[kpl1228]

On 9/15/2024 at 8:46 AM, Stokely said:

In my case, gigging.  I love soft synths at home but don't want to gig with a laptop.  But point taken.

AMEN.

"All these sounds are on my phone and laptop." Well, yeah, kinda. But after staring at a laptop and phone all day, the last thing I want to do is "get away from the day job" by staring at a laptop or phone at a gig.

There's a lot of people that still swear by the action (weighted or unweighted) of many Roland keyboards, even from 30-35 years ago, and still gig with them as controllers. I would also imagine that the actions that are currently good are on big-buck roadworthy keyboards, but yes, even those have seemed to have slipped.

[kpl1228]

7 hours ago, dazzjazz said:

Here’s a vote for the action on the Yamaha KX76, probably the same as the original DX7. 

Had both the 88 and the 76. Both beasts, and both great live keyboards for the ease of selecting presets, and that indestructible action live.

[AROIOS]

12 hours ago, Matthiola said:

...If you ever have the chance to play a super JX, dial in the 'Breathing Brass' patch and play some nice extended chords. It's so lush, warm, organic, I've never heard anything like that again in any modern synth...

"Dancing Flutes" is another great orchestral patch. Yellowjackets used it on their excellent Pop Jazz tune "Mile High".
 

 

[Matthiola]

Eric Persing was responsible for sound design and co-created the factory set of the JX-10. The programming was simply genius.

[Mr -G-]

41 minutes ago, Matthiola said:

Eric Persing was responsible for sound design and co-created the factory set of the JX-10. The programming was simply genius.

And the JX8P too, if I recall correctly there is a "Thanks Eric Persing" message when setting the keyboard in test mode. The "Soundtrack", "Voices" and "Brass" patches in the JX8P are excellent.

 

[J.F.N.]

You can still get this, now with more stability and modern features...

 

(and up to 20 voices...)

 

https://www.roland.com/global/products/jx-08/

[YashN]

12 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

You can still get this, now with more stability and modern features...

https://www.roland.com/global/products/jx-08/

 

They made this one so stable that the particular flaw that makes the original so special seems to have been erased...

[J.F.N.]

11 hours ago, YashN said:

 

They made this one so stable that the particular flaw that makes the original so special seems to have been erased...

 

It's too bad the controllers are so small that I would need chop sticks to use it... (bought a D-05, and sold it after a few months again for this very reeason, the screen was so tiny I needed a loupe to see anything...).

 

[brenner13]

1 hour ago, YashN said:

 

They made this one so stable that the particular flaw that makes the original so special seems to have been erased...

There are menu parameters to simulate analog fluctuations. Smaller settings bring the JX08 to life with beautiful nuance. High settings make it sound in desperate need of calibration that would never actually happen with DCO’s.