Death of Finale: Long live Dorico?

[cedar]

Just got an email from FInale, indicating that the program is being discontinued.  No more updates, but program supposed to continue to work.  And they are offering discount for Dorico - a program I've never heard of before.

 

Not looking forward to getting accustomed to a new notation program.

 

Oh well.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

That’s a shame for Finale users who of course have spent decades using the tool and know it inside and out.  Thankfully it runs today, just use it on a pc/mac and hold onto that hardware for Finale. 
 

Dorico is Steinberg’s Notation software developed by the Sibelius team from the UK after Avid acquired Sibelius.  Dorico specializes in the best looking printed or pdf exported sheet music available.  And they incorporated a lot of features and functions the team was never able to implement in Sibelius.  
 

All can try it for free before deciding if it’s for them.  https://www.steinberg.net/dorico/

[Mighty Motif Max]

Oh man, this is horrible news. I've been a hardcore Finale user since the 2014 edition, but used lighter-featured versions previously from 2010-then. I quite literally use it for everything, and it took a long time to get that comfortable with it. I despise Sibelius and don't get along with MuseScore...Dorico isn't something I ever looked at very seriously, but looks like I will have to check it out now.

 

Never thought that Finale would go down - it seemed to be the "industry standard" for pretty much every musician and music educator/faculty I've known over the past 15 years.

[JoJoB3]

Still reluctantly on Sibelius 7 only because I know it. I do want to try Dorico but videos aren't showing me much and user reviews are all over the place.  That and not a huge fan of today's steinberg.

[ElmerJFudd]

48 minutes ago, JoJoB3 said:

Still reluctantly on Sibelius 7 only because I know it. I do want to try Dorico but videos aren't showing me much and user reviews are all over the place.  That and not a huge fan of today's steinberg.

Fiddle with the free version of Dorico.   I’m a long time Sibelius user as well, they’ve snagged a lot of Finale’s users since the mid 2000s.   
 

As a side note - browser based notation software (lite/free versions and subscriptions) like noteflight.com and flat.io have come a long way and are good enough for many tasks. 

[Bobadohshe]

I have used this program for over 2 decades and can crank out whatever I need lickity split. I use it almost every day. I am BUMMED.

[Mark Schmieder]

Yep, I'm further down the alphabet so my notice just arrived. Good thing I got a head start by evolving most of my notation work to Dorico late last year, as I found it better for jazz lead sheets, but it isn't yet as good for classical stuff and recent updates have been more focused on auto-rendering of pop material. We shall see how this progresses.

 

----------

 

Today, we have important news to share with you regarding the future of Finale. Effective immediately, we are announcing these changes to the Finale software:

There will be no further development on Finale, or any of its associated tools (PrintMusic, Notepad, Songwriter)

 

It is no longer possible to purchase or upgrade Finale in the MakeMusic eStore

 

Finale will continue to work on devices where it is currently installed (barring OS changes)

 

For over four decades, our engineers and product teams have passionately crafted what would quickly become the gold standard for music notation. However, as technology stacks have changed, and millions of lines of Finale code have added up, delivering incremental value for our customers has become exponentially harder over time. Instead of releasing new versions of Finale that would offer only marginal value to our users, we've made the decision to end its development.

We want to sincerely express our warm and deep gratitude to all of our loyal and passionate users. While Finale development has come to an end, we know your musical journey has not. 

 

To ensure that you continue to have access to high-quality notation software, we have partnered with Steinberg, the creators of Dorico, to offer exclusive discount pricing on Dorico Pro for all Finale and PrintMusic users. 

 

We truly believe Dorico is the best home for Finale users looking for a new music notation tool to continue the amazing work they are doing. 

 

 

 

[CHarrell]

Allow me to take the opportunity to say that Dorico is immensely badass and the consistent rate of intuitive, time-saving new features is extremely appreciated and exciting. I've been using it consistently since 2019 and it just keeps getting better and better with a very active and tuned-in development team. 

[Mark Schmieder]

I just learned from another source that Hal Leonard bought MuseScore in December 2023 (I did not know this) and as a result they think it will become the new standard, maybe starting with the upcoming v5, which apparently promises to finally deliver a pro-level app (MuseScore v4 and earlier versions, is seriously flawed in basic ways).

 

I find Dorico excellent for jazz lead sheets but inferior to Finale for classical scoring. As the latest version focused on auto-rendering of pop scores, it made me nervous about the future, as I was an early adopter of Notion and it sort of went a similar route (though focused more on school/university needs, which is admirable) regarding DAW capabilities (especially integrated into StudioOne after PreSonus bought them).

 

I would have preferred that MOTU had migrated Mosaic to OSX and beyond, but that was not to be. The notation part of Digital Performer is still about the most advanced of any DAW, but one still needs to go to a dedicated notation app for a lot of aspects of scoring, even if not for mock-ups per se.

[Brad Kaenel]

Forced myself to switch from Finale to Dorico two years ago. It’s a tall learning curve to climb, but so was Finale (as is any non-trivial software app, to be sure). My biggest challenge is remembering what I’ve learned, since I don’t use it everyday; when I sit down to do a project the first day is just re-reading the basic docs. 

 

Music notation apps are incredibly complex beasts, and a couple of decades of incremental mods will eventually topple most code under its own weight — all you can do is let it collapse and then go build something else.

 

Perhaps the Finale folks will opt to release the last version of the code under an open-source license; that would be pretty cool.

Sidebar: If you’re the nerdy type who enjoys reading technical material, definitely put this book on your Christmas list: “Behind Bars”, by Elaine Gould

The definitive reference manual on music notation practices and conventions, and the “bible” (so I’ve read) that guides the Dorico development project.

 

[dazzjazz]

After using Finale for 20 years, I switched to Dorico about 4 years ago. 
The difference is night and day - finale was always buggy for me and some instructions in the manual would always render the exact opposite of what it promised. Dorico is intuitive and joy to use in comparison.

 

One thing I did while I still had a functioning version of Finale was to export Music XML files. Obviously, I had a lot of files but now I have access to everything I’ve ever notated on computer. 
 

My recommendation is to make the switch to Dorico. It’s a fantastic application and the support at the Steinberg forum is top-notch. In my experience. The lead developer. Daniel Spreadbury will often chime in. There’s not many places you get that.

[tfort]

The Dorico Pro crossgrade offer is a fantastic deal. 
 

Dorico plus El Gato Streamdeck XL plus Notation Express XL Dorico Profile is the way. 
 

https://www.notationcentral.com/product/notation-express-xl-stream-deck-profile-for-dorico/

https://www.elgato.com/us/en/p/stream-deck-xl

 

El Gato usually has decent Black Friday sales, FYI. 

[cedar]

I am encouraged by those who say Dorico is good for jazz lead sheets, which is really my main use for transcription software. I wonder whether the free, lighter version will suffice.  Guess I'll investigate.

 

One question for those who migrated from Finale to Dorico: is there any conversion process I should use now on my existing FInale files to make sure I have access to them in Dorico? Or is that even possible? 

[ElmerJFudd]

Music xml export

Or MIDI

 

[Brad Kaenel]

8 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Music xml export

Or MIDI

 

Yes, MusicXML is the way forward for migration of notation.  With any non-trivial chart you may need to do some cleanup, but the spec has been around long enough that you should get good results. And, of course, Dorico needs to be great at importing Finale docs in order to get new customers to migrate.

[CHarrell]

3 hours ago, Mark Schmieder said:

I just learned from another source that Hal Leonard bought MuseScore in December 2023 (I did not know this) and as a result they think it will become the new standard, maybe starting with the upcoming v5, which apparently promises to finally deliver a pro-level app (MuseScore v4 and earlier versions, is seriously flawed in basic ways).

 

It'd be a tough thing for people to digest if HL takes Musescore out if open-source, I still remember downloading that first alpha back in 09...it's come a long way!

 

4 hours ago, Mark Schmieder said:

regarding DAW capabilities (especially integrated into StudioOne after PreSonus bought them).

 

Still waiting on Cubase integration, one of the reasons I went with Dorico 5 years ago. 😭

[obxa]

2 hours ago, Brad Kaenel said:

, Dorico needs to be great at importing Finale docs in order to get new customers to migrate.

27 year  weekly user of Finale.  I wish they had at least decided to make it open source and the let the web fix it like Bandlab-Cakewalk.   My Church gig will probably pay the crossgrade,  but I'll  have to pony up for my personal copy.   Might consider Dorico Elements as it seems to cover mostly everything. 

 

I've had varying success with XML import export between Musescore, Finale, Sibelius.   To the point where it's almost easier to recreate the song on some files.  If I could get Finale to reliably  import into Dorico at about 90% I'd be happy.   I like that Finale fonts can be used in Dorico.

 

After initially being  gloomy upon the news,  took a deep dive into Dorico videos and I'm impressed.   Will have to try the demo tonight.  I've long  endured too many workarounds and bugs, with streamate and Keyboard maestro hacks to do the simplest of things in Finale, so perhaps I'm overdue.  Though switching notation is almost more arduous than switching Daws. 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

6 minutes ago, obxa said:

27 year  weekly user of Finale.  I wish they had at least decided to make it open source and the let the web fix it like Bandlab-Cakewalk.   My Church gig will probably pay the crossgrade,  but I'll  have to pony up for my personal copy.   Might consider Dorico Elements as it seems to cover mostly everything. 

 

I've had varying success with XML import export between Musescore, Finale, Sibelius.   To the point where it's almost easier to recreate the song on some files.  If I could get Finale to reliably  import into Dorico at about 90% I'd be happy.   I like that Finale fonts can be used in Dorico.

 

After initially being  gloomy upon the news,  took a deep dive into Dorico videos and I'm impressed.   Will have to try the demo tonight.  I've long  endured too many workarounds and bugs, with streamate and Keyboard maestro hacks to do the simplest of things in Finale, so perhaps I'm overdue.  Though switching notation is almost more arduous than switching Daws. 

 

I’d say many times, due to speed developed on whatever notation software you’ve trained on, it’s easier to just create a score than correct from a scan.  But with music xml or even MIDI, it definitely saves some time.  So worth the conversion.  

[Brad Kaenel]

Dorico has a short 4-episode series on YT that may help those who are considering making the jump from Finale:

 

Switching from Finale to Dorico

[Brad Kaenel]

10 hours ago, cedar said:

they are offering discount for Dorico

 

That is a fabulous discount.  The semi-pro "Elements" edition of Dorico is already $100 bucks, and I had to throttle back to the free "SE" edition when Version 5 came out. So now for another $50 I get to go all the way to Pro? -- it's a no-brainer upgrade for me!

[Brad Kaenel]

2 hours ago, obxa said:

If I could get Finale to reliably import into Dorico at about 90% I'd be happy.

 

If you have simple charts, download the free Dorico SE edition and try importing MusicXML from Finale.  My migration experience was 99% accurate, but I'm just doing "fake book" charts, and the occasional SATB choral piece. I think SE allows only six staves, so if you have something quite orchestral it won't be a good test.

 

If you have something complex you'd like me to try for you, happy to do so. Export to MusicXML from Finale, and email me the file (brad@harambemusic.com). I'll import it into Dorico Pro and send you a PDF of what I get. 

[Reezekeys]

Seems like a lot of you are talking (er, typing) like Finale will suddenly stop working very soon. Always good to plan for the future I suppose, but what's not to say the current version won't continue to work for a few more OS upgrades? Who knows, there might be a few years of use left - was Finale updated for the latest OSes? (I have no idea myself).

 

If it were me I would stick with Finale as long as possible. Notation software is by far the hardest to master for folks like me that don't do this full-time; I find myself spending almost as much time going to the manual to reacquaint myself with features, procedures, and key commands as I do working on the chart itself (unless it's a simple lead sheet, those I can do pretty quick).

[ElmerJFudd]

11 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Seems like a lot of you are talking (er, typing) like Finale will suddenly stop working very soon. Always good to plan for the future I suppose, but what's not to say the current version won't continue to work for a few more OS upgrades? Who knows, there might be a few years of use left - was Finale updated for the latest OSes? (I have no idea myself).

 

If it were me I would stick with Finale as long as possible. Notation software is by far the hardest to master for folks like me that don't do this full-time; I find myself spending almost as much time going to the manual to reacquaint myself with features, procedures, and key commands as I do working on the chart itself (unless it's a simple lead sheet, those I can do pretty quick).

Definitely.  It takes a long time to break an application on Windows.  There’s still people running Windows 7.  I’m on macOS Big Sur.   And  that’s how it will stay until it’s time to replace the hardware.  

[Tom Williams]

Well, Finale has finally entered its Coda.

 

Darn it, I've got Simple Entry in muscle memory.  Definitely running my copy of Finale until it drops, but also gonna save everything in MusicXML format.

 

One annoying aspect of capitalism is that companies won't go into maintenance mode -- no new features, just fix bugs and keep it runnin'.  After all, we still buy mouse traps and coffee mugs.

 

 

 

[Dan32]

16 hours ago, Mark Schmieder said:

I just learned from another source that Hal Leonard bought MuseScore in December 2023 (I did not know this) and as a result they think it will become the new standard, maybe starting with the upcoming v5, which apparently promises to finally deliver a pro-level app (MuseScore v4 and earlier versions, is seriously flawed in basic ways).

 

I use Musescore for notating piano score and lead sheets. It's great and find exporting a single part to mp3 useful. 

The app version for opening exported scores I think is subscription based. 

[Papa.J]

Another big thumbs up for Dorico Elements here.

 

After using Sibelius for decades, I switched (when Sibelius implemented the confusing Windows Ribbon bar thing) to MuseScore for a couple of years, and then subsequently to Dorico Elements.

 

Compared to the very expensive "Pro" versions of Finale / Sibelius / Dorico, I have found the Elements version provides most of the features needed and represents really good value for the money.

 

The only thing that I miss in the Elements version is the ability to do smaller "cue" parts above a stave, but I get round this by using smaller noteheads / shapes and/or colours for cue parts.

 

15 hours ago, Brad Kaenel said:

Forced myself to switch from Finale to Dorico two years ago. It’s a tall learning curve to climb, but so was Finale (as is any non-trivial software app, to be sure). My biggest challenge is remembering what I’ve learned, since I don’t use it everyday; when I sit down to do a project the first day is just re-reading the basic docs. 

 

Totally agree with what Brad said. All these scoring packages are incredibly complex to learn, and difficult to remember if you don't use them every day (as I don't).

I am always having to search the docs to find out how to do things that I know I have done before.... 🙄

[ElmerJFudd]

Interesting, “Beginning one year from now in August of 2025, you will no longer be able to authorize Finale on any new devices or re-authorize it.” 

 

I’m sure this will be hacked if it isn’t already, but to avoid being in a position to need that, it's definitely time to print and/or export all your sheets.   

 

[stoken6]

13 hours ago, obxa said:

took a deep dive into Dorico videos and I'm impressed

Dorico really started in exactly the right place - a bunch of ex-Sibelius folks with expertise, experience of what not to do, and (probably) a grudge. I speak as a Sibelius user - like any notation software it won't be the easiest to use.

13 hours ago, obxa said:

I wish they had at least decided to make it open source and the let the web fix it like Bandlab-Cakewalk

Yeah that would have been the right thing to do. I guess Steinberg's bribe contribution was more attractive.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Piktor]

Another long-time Finale user here. I appreciate the feedback that others here have been sharing.
 

I spent many years with Finale creating and adapting materials for band students and composing or just working out my own ideas. Over time, I become pretty fluent with the program. Diving into a new program and learning a bunch of new keyboard shortcuts will feel a bit like learning a new piano keyboard layout. On the positive side, research suggests that people who keep learning as they age are at lower risk of getting dementia. I suppose that these days I am less interested in learning how to use tools than I am in just getting work done with the tools. (Now, if I can just remember where I left those big-boy pants….)  Additionally, since I have long been frustrated with Finale’s clumsy midi editing capabilities and its somewhat unstable handling of certain VSTs, I am hoping that a change to something like Dorico will be a welcome change. The special price offer is tempting.  

Of course, I could just carry on with Finale, but I know that sometime after August 2025, I will need a new computer and I won’t be able to authorize Finale on it. Might as well tear the band aide off now. 

 

I have many files that I would like to be able to revisit and possibly work on in the future, but I wouldn’t look forward to opening each one converting each individual file to XML in order to transport them to another program. Fortunately, according to this video, there is a way to batch convert those files. I thought some of you might find that info useful. 
 

 

[Mark Schmieder]

Several back-to-back updates today, as user feedback was fast and furious and they have taken to heart the requests and made promises well beyond the announcement. They also linked to some tutorials to help people migrate to Dorico.