So now it is cassettes that are making a comeback?!?

[Anderton]

4 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Old technology as a novelty to a new generation just discovering it and/or a very niche audience.

 

AS NBC TV used to say, "if you haven't seen it, it's new to you."

 

4 minutes ago, ProfD said:

IMO, a handful of people which could be several hundred thousands interested in old technology doesn't make it a comeback.

 

Multiple handfuls of people being interested in the attributes of older technology may not be a comeback, but may very well be a trend. As Ken said...

 

2 hours ago, KenElevenShadows said:

At the risk of being extremely repetitive, my ongoing theory for quite a few years now is that young people crave a hands-on, tactile experience.

 

And that's trickling up to older people, who are finding out that technologies like streaming and virtual everthing aren't all they're cracked up to be. That encompasses things like people deciding to experience events with their own eyes, rather than trying to capture it on the smartphone they've brought with them. You could say it's a comeback of how people used cameras, but you could also say it's part of a trend that seems to be growing.

[KenElevenShadows]

27 minutes ago, Anderton said:

And that's trickling up to older people, who are finding out that technologies like streaming and virtual everthing aren't all they're cracked up to be. That encompasses things like people deciding to experience events with their own eyes, rather than trying to capture it on the smartphone they've brought with them. You could say it's a comeback of how people used cameras, but you could also say it's part of a trend that seems to be growing.

 

I believe that is 100% correct. I talk to many older adults who feel the same way and miss that sort of thing. When I tell them about my theory about younger people, many feel it makes sense. Not so much on this forum, perhaps, but when I am talking to people in person. 

 

And younger people seem to feel my theory has great validity, so at the risk of patting myself on the back, I think I'm on to something.  

[ProfD]

19 minutes ago, Anderton said:

Multiple handfuls of people being interested in the attributes of older technology may not be a comeback, but may very well be a trend. As Ken said...

It's not my intent to dispute or discourage younger folks from experiencing tactility.

 

In fact, such an interest or comeback provides me with an opportunity to dump, er, provide physical media and other items with a new home.😁

 

I'll be perfectly fine with storing my entire music collection on a few external drives and being able to carry it around in my pocket if necessary. 😎

 

[Anderton]

In a perhaps related topic, a lot of MIDI 2.0 is about increasing the potential for tactile musical expression.

 

20 minutes ago, ProfD said:

I'll be perfectly fine with storing my entire music collection on a few external drives and being able to carry it around in my pocket if necessary.

 

So am I...mostly. I'm keeping all the CDs with which I was involved, as well as physical copies of DVDs and Blu-Ray videos. I already have videos from mainstream directors like Fellini that aren't available on any streaming service. Also, many videos are copy-protected, so ripping them is a hassle. 

 

But as far as analog tape is concerned, I couldn't wait to move to digital. Some of my impatience was influenced by doing classical sessions, where surface noise from vinyl and tape hiss really destroyed the mood. Granted, Dolby A helped. But I couldn't wait to get rid of tape in all forms.

[Anderton]

Is a possibly related topic, a lot of MIDI 2.0 is about providing more tactile music-making experiences. I doubt that's not being driven primarily by younger people, given that many I've talked to think that MIDI was just an 80s thing. They're surprised when I tell them that if they do computer-based music, they use MIDI every day.

[Delaware Dave]

Wake me up when 8 tracks make a comeback, i have a ton of them as well as a functioning player/recorder.

[David Emm]

2 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

Wake me up when 8 tracks make a comeback, i have a ton of them as well as a functioning player/recorder.

 

Oh yeah, I'm pining away for having KACHUNK! KACHINGKT! appear in the middle of a symphony or "Ummagumma." The road to Hell is paved with "AC/DC" 8-tracks and "Thundercats" DVDs.

[Notes_Norton]

23 hours ago, Stokely said:

Ok, they were better than 8 tracks maybe

The first time I heard an 8 track was in a friend's car. I don't remember what song it was, but it was one of those long, psychedelic tracks. Anyway, the song was somewhere in the middle, it faded out prematurely, the tape machine went 'click click' and the song faded in again, and my mind immediately shouted “Blasphemy!!!” 

That was enough for me to never-ever want to buy or listen to an 8-track again.

Notes ♫

[Notes_Norton]

16 hours ago, Anderton said:

But as far as analog tape is concerned, I couldn't wait to move to digital. Some of my impatience was influenced by doing classical sessions, where surface noise from vinyl and tape hiss really destroyed the mood. Granted, Dolby A helped. But I couldn't wait to get rid of tape in all forms.

I had a Teac A3440 which I used to mix my backing tracks, before digital was possible.

It was a great machine in its day, but limited to 4 tracks. Bouncing amplified the noise, so I tried to do everything in 4 tracks. Then came the first MIDI sequencer, and life got a lot easier.

 

I still make my backing tracks with MIDI, but I no longer have to feed floppy disks into the players, a zillion of them will fit on a laptop.

 

I thought about going tablet, but having the keyboard available, so I can quickly cue the next song while playing the current one, taking my right hand off my instrument for a minimal amount of seconds, makes me keep the laptop as my primary track player.

 

Notes ♫

[Notes_Norton]

17 hours ago, Anderton said:

And that's trickling up to older people, who are finding out that technologies like streaming and virtual everthing aren't all they're cracked up to be.

We tend to embrace whatever is new. But sometimes newer is not necessarily better.

I like physical media. I like to own music I dearly love so it is at my disposal whether the Internet is up or down, and at a better resolution than streaming in my neck of the woods offers.

 

On the other hand, I've made mp3s of 10,000 songs to put in my digital Walkman to play in the car. 

 

We used to have a one-disc-at-a-time rental subscription to Netflix. Everything was available, from Disney, Paramount, Miramax, UA, and the others. Plus on the CDs there were what we called BVDs, (the shorts like making of, composer interviews, film historian information, and so on.) Now if you want to watch everything, you need to have multiple subscriptions, Netflix, Max, Disney and on and on. We watch one movie a week at most. Having multiple subscriptions is out of the question and a waste. Plus, with streaming, we don't get the BVDs. So it's the Library, Red Box, or free services like Hoopla or Kanopy. I miss the one at a time Netflix where everything eventually gets there subscription.

 

IMO there is no need for a smart refrigerator, washing machine, or toaster. Physical knobs for most functions are better in a car than a touch screen. I can twist knobs and push buttons without taking my eyes off the road.

 

Our new washer has knobs, but they aren't attached to gears. Mrs. Notes hates it. If the load gets unbalanced, she hits stop, and it takes a minute before she can open the lid, plus dozens of other inconveniences. We're looking for a reconditioned analog washer.

 

We're not Luddites, new tech is often great. DVDs were better than VHS, CDs better than Cassettes, Anti-skid brakes on the car can be lifesavers, digital tuners on radios are much better than twisting that knob, my laptop is much more convenient and powerful than that giant tower I used to feed floppy disks into, digital recording is so much easier than tape, my wind synth will never replace my saxophone, but it really extends the voices and expression I can make on stage, and so on.

But there is no need for my refrigerator to tell me, and whoever buys the data, that the coffee cream is getting low. 

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[Stokely]

I'm some kind of odd semi-luddite.   A "practical luddite" as it were.

Mainly I hate tech that breaks or that forces you to use your phone.  My wife is notorious for buying stuff fancy with features that end up not working after some amount of time.  Examples:  a garbage can that auto-opens.  A fancy doorbell with a camera that now no longer makes a sound in the house, so people stand at my door and I don't know they are there (hmm, might not be so bad!).   We have an electronic lock on our front door where part of the sensor broke and now our door has to stay locked.  Before that, the app on my phone refused to connect to it.    And so on, and so on.  Sure there are some I consider necessary like an electronic garage door  (one of ours is having issues, ironically).    She has a Tesla, which is fun as hell to drive, but I can't stand having all the controls on a screen (which actually did lock up on me and had to be rebooted like the computer it is).

However, try to tear me away from my daw and show me some tiny lcd screens and mutter "multi-timbral mode" or "sysex" or "did you save all your patches with new names and write patch changes from the session?"  to me and I'll start twitching and will likely attack.   I don't miss those days even though a room full of gear was definitely vibey (if not friendly to your electric bill).

Don't get me started on those spying "smart house" things.  Can't understand the appeal at all for that.

[KenElevenShadows]

Since the conversation is veering towards new technology in general, I'll chime in there.

 

I like new technology, but frequently don't embrace it in large part due to finances. I enjoy using my phone.

 

However, I like knobs. I like knobs and buttons on my cameras. And I like them in my car. Apparently, I'm not alone. Study finds that buttons are safer and more efficient than touchscreens in cars

 

I don't like smart lights, and don't need a garbage can that automatically opens (and in fact find them irritating). I guess I like washing machines if they automatically adjust the water level precisely instead of only giving three water settings. In theory, anyway.

 

However, I love having our heating/AC control wired up so I can turn on the AC or heat when I am coming home. For instance, during the winter, if I am away for a long time, I like to fire it up when I am at the airport so the house is at least somewhat warm by the time I get back.

 

I like machine learning (most people here will refer to it as "AI") when it comes to helping me with repetitive tasks such as when processing my photographs and reducing noise. I don't like machine learning/AI when it's used to usurp art or deceive.

 

I love the sound of analog tape for recording rock (not so much for classical, however). However, I don't use them. Why? Because it's a pain in the ass. DAWs give me lots of flexibility and have greater dynamic range, and the A/D converters don't suck anymore. And if the AC kicks on or there's a 60-cycle hum somewhere, Izotope can take it out.

 

Bottom line is this: if new technology benefits me, I'm generally for it unless it poses a particularly bad security risk or has serious downsides. I don't automatically think that "smart" this or "AI that" is bad. I evaluate based on several parameters, including finances, benefit, and downsides, and go from there.

 

[zeronyne]

On 7/3/2024 at 9:53 AM, Anderton said:

After talking about those lessons in the rest of the column, the conclusion was:

 

"Maybe some MI companies are hitting an Instant Pot-like ceiling. The innovative ones will balance keeping their user base while investing in the future, but no company can afford to forget that this is a fashion industry. The smart companies are sniffing around for what people will want next, rather than trying to force something on them like multichannel surround speakers for a tiny living room in an apartment they rent for an exorbitant price."

 

I’m a broken record, but that’s what pop music is designed to be, right? And “classic rock” is one of those things that have reached a saturation point to the level where classic rock artists can’t get anything new released because no one wants it…the old stuff is still fine.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, KenElevenShadows said:

Apparently, I'm not alone. Study finds that buttons are safer and more efficient than touchscreens in cars

As the first comment there says, "surprise surprise." Anything that makes you take your eyes off the road more often or for longer periods of time is a problem. It doesn't help that the touchscreen buttons aren't 100% responsive when you expect them to be (IME). And sometimes even the hard controls do different things at different time. I basically ruled out a Kia because the same knobs that were radio controls were also sometimes climate controls.

 

Back to the topic at hand, I posted this back in the CD thread...

 

 

 

[KenElevenShadows]

Yes, that's a good video.

 

I meant to post to the article, not the forum that posted the article. But sometimes, I make mistakes. 

https://www.vibilagare.se/english/physical-buttons-outperform-touchscreens-new-cars-test-finds#vote

[Anderton]

8 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

That was enough for me to never-ever want to buy or listen to an 8-track again.

 

8 tracks were designed to make sure that at some point, you'd never listen to them again. There was a lubricant inside the 8-track cartridge that would inevitably degrade and become ineffective over time. At that point, the tape jammed. Companies knew this.

[Anderton]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

As the first comment there says "surprise surprise." Anything that makes you take your eyes off the road more often or for longer periods of time is a problem. It doesn't help that the touchscreen buttons aren't 100% responsive when you expect them to be (IME).

 

I really dislike car touch screens...another reason I'm sticking with my 2000 VW stickshift.

 

In our world, does anybody here prefer touchscreen faders over physical faders? Anyone? Yeah, I thought so.

[ProfD]

As a minimalist, especially when it comes to music gear and power tools, I appreciate technology that is 1) more efficient and 2) facilitates consolidation. 

 

However, the latest air fryer or automatic garbage can or vacuuming robot would not be on my shopping list.😁

 

30 minutes ago, Anderton said:

I really dislike car touch screens...another reason I'm sticking with my 2000 VW stickshift.

I've had a touchscreen in my trucks since 2014 so with a decade of use, I've gotten used to it.  

30 minutes ago, Anderton said:

In our world, does anybody here prefer touchscreen faders over physical faders? Anyone? Yeah, I thought so.

I sold my Midas Venice F32 mixing console.  Replaced it with a QSC TouchMix 16.  Not a preference for touchscreen. 

 

The TouchMix conveniently consolidates mixer and outboard gear.  Great for live gigs.😎

 

[GovernorSilver]

I have a friend who's served as audio engineer at local clubs like the Black Cat, where touchscreen controlled faders were part of the house system.

 

If I remember to do so I'll ask him how he likes working with onscreen faders vs. physical ones.   I bet his answer will be something the lines of shrugging and saying "They're paying me so I'll use whatever they have"

 

On a different note I realized my Syntakt came with a cassette.  I'll inquire about obtaining digital copies of the music on the cassette as I don't have a working player anymore and I don't want to buy a new device just to listen to the music on it.

[Notes_Norton]

On 7/9/2024 at 4:15 PM, Anderton said:

In our world, does anybody here prefer touchscreen faders over physical faders? Anyone? Yeah, I thought so.

I play live. 

In our duo we have 2 mics, 2 guitars with amp modelers, 4 synth modules (one controller each) and backing tracks, which I create myself. Plus, we have another mic just in case someone else wants to speak on our PA system. We're not germaphobes, but in the odd chance the mic user has a cold, catching it would impair our next gigs.

So there is no way I'm going to use a touch screen mixer on stage. I have old, 12 channel Samson mixers. I'd buy something new, but I can't find any compact, rack mountable, 12 channel mixers with all the inputs/outputs on the back. I have a few of them so if one breaks and needs to go to the shop, I still have one and a spare.

 

 

[ProfD]

7 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

I have a friend who's served as audio engineer at local clubs...I'll ask him how he likes working with onscreen faders vs. physical ones.   I bet his answer will be something the lines of shrugging and saying "They're paying me so I'll use whatever they have"

That's right especially when it's a job and pays the bills.😁

 

My audio engineer buddies who still work in the trenches have adapted. 

 

We evolve with technology. I still remember IBM Selectric typewriters before QWERTY computer KBs and typing on a capacitive screen with my thumbs.🤣😎

[Notes_Norton]

On 7/9/2024 at 4:53 PM, ProfD said:

 

However, the latest air fryer or automatic garbage can or vacuuming robot would not be on my shopping list.

Nor mine. Not a self-opening garbage can, nor an automatic anything that doesn't give me a good reason for wanting it.

 

I don't need an automatic ice maker in the fridge, just one more thing to break. Refilling those plastic trays is easy. - Don't need an electric frying pan, I have an electric range and a few frying pans. Perhaps if my cooking was more complicated, but it's not. - I don't want the newest phone, but will use mine until for some reason or another it either breaks or becomes a problem to use. - I don't need electric windows in the house, the crank isn't difficult to use. - I don't use the remote on my home sound system (which is still stereo). I can put up to 6 CDs in the tray. - I don't need a smart fridge, I know when the coffee cream gets low. 
 

If I have a need, I'll research and get what I want, whether it is old tech or new tech. 

 

I do have a modern, polyurethane roof, which gives me great insulation, and will probably last 50 years as long as I keep it maintained. It was more expensive, but with closed-cell foam, it'll probably never leak. - I play the sax but love my wind synth too. - I don't mow much, most of my yard is re-wilded, but I bought an electric mower when the gas one gave up the ghost. - I had a guitar made in the Parker Custom Shop, so I can have P90, Rail, Series Humbucker, Parallel Humbucker and Piezo sounds on the same guitar. That way I only have to bring one to the gig. The locking tuners are great, too. - Physical Modeling synth modules make my wind MIDI controller as expressive as an acoustic or acoustic-electric instrument.

Sometimes technology is great, sometimes it's more trouble than it's worth. Sometimes touch screens are fantastic, sometimes knobs and levers are better. The goal for me is to use new tech when it's a marked improvement, not just because it's new.
 

Notes ♫

[Thethirdapple]

skeuomorphic design fails on a few key aspects, one which drives me nuts when using touch screen devices: Pot’s (rotary knobs)… seems to me that our touch screens are basically oversized ribbons. 🫤

 

A recent reboot down memory lane of some old Iomega zip disks, dug out of storage led me to reinstalling all the KAI software which explored some really fun user interfaces, creating new paradigm of interaction…

KAI software: https://mprove.de/script/99/kai/
Link to some backstory and screenshots

IMHO, there have been a few such “shifts” within music interactivity, I feel like one or many, could be not far off in the distance. Exploring realtime performance modeling, midi 2.0 etc… physical gear which is integrated with more dynamic physical controls which benefit from contemporary “screen” and touch capabilities.
 

Something like a pressure sensitive jog wheel with visual and haptic response or a fader/pot together which could also tilt as its moved and turned…

PEACE
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