7 Levels Of Chord Progression Complexity?

[AROIOS]

Sounds like he hid level 8~10, no way a "Jazz Lord" would stop at level 7 in this vid.

Maybe it reflects the limitation from having only 6 strings?
 

 

[Finale]

Limitations exist only in the mind of the player.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, AROIOS said:

Sounds like he hid level 8~10, no way a "Jazz Lord" would stop at level 7 in this vid.

Maybe it reflects the limitation from having only 6 strings?
 

 

Sarcasm may not be the best way to attract students to your patreon.  😂

[D. Gauss]

"One chord is fine. Two chords is pushing it. Three chords and you're into jazz."  - Lou Reed

[stoken6]

Slight tangent brought to mind by this thread: I was talking to a guitar-playing friend of mine (very strong player in the Mark Knopfler mould), who discovered a new teaching method for solo chord-melody playing. He was struggling to get his head around how the system works, and showed me a video.

 

It boiled down to "know the neck so well that finding the next note/chord/voicing is as natural as on a keyboard". The teacher was basically playing piano on a guitar. 

 

Lesson 1, part 1 of the accompanying book starts:

"Major 7 chord:

- Seventh on top: these four shapes

- Fifth on top: these four shapes

- Third on top: these four shapes

- Tonic on top: these four shapes

Practice all 16 shapes in all keys" 

 

"Learning shapes" is something keyboard players typically don't have to think much about.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ElmerJFudd]

3 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Slight tangent brought to mind by this thread: I was talking to a guitar-playing friend of mine (very strong player in the Mark Knopfler mould), who discovered a new teaching method for solo chord-melody playing. He was struggling to get his head around how the system works, and showed me a video.

 

It boiled down to "know the neck so well that finding the next note/chord/voicing is as natural as on a keyboard". The teacher was basically playing piano on a guitar. 

 

Lesson 1, part 1 of the accompanying book starts:

"Major 7 chord:

- Seventh on top: these four shapes

- Fifth on top: these four shapes

- Third on top: these four shapes

- Tonic on top: these four shapes

Practice all 16 shapes in all keys" 

 

"Learning shapes" is something keyboard players typically don't have to think much about.

 

Cheers, Mike.

I think it’s because fingering on piano keyboard is easier - at least in the sense of grabbing the shape.  On the guitar, all the variety of shapes across 6 strings in standard tuning is a bit like playing twister.   Not to mention holding down steel strings and getting each note to sound can be physically challenging until hand strength is developed.  
 

I’ve had older students start piano for the first time and they find keyboard dexterity challenging.  Guitar would devastate them imho.  

[stoken6]

7 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I think it’s because fingering on piano keyboard is easier - at least in the sense of grabbing the shape.  On the guitar, all the variety of shapes across 6 strings in standard tuning is a bit like playing twister.   Not to mention holding down steel strings and getting each note to sound can be physically challenging until hand strength is developed.  
 

I’ve had older students start piano for the first time and they find keyboard dexterity challenging.  Guitar would devastate them imho.  

I agree, but I'm making a slightly different point - that understanding *theory* is much easier on a keyboard. "See that white key to the left of the pair of black keys? Can you hear how they all sound the same note, but in a different octave? So if I tell you that a chord is C and E and G, how many ways can you play that combination of three notes".

 

That's double-hard for a guitar beginner who just wants to play a Hendrix solo.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[GovernorSilver]

samuraiguitarist is a decent Youtube channel for rock guitar players, particularly those who aspire to advance to a high enough skill level to be hired as session guitarists.

 

I smell an attempt to one-up Jacob Collier, who famously posted a 5 levels of chord complexity video a few years back.

 

Adam Neely put up a video of 7 levels of chord complexity some time afterward.  Take that, Collier!!

 

More recently, a different guitarist channel published a video promising instruction in 12 levels of chord complexity.  Take that, Mr. Samurai!!!

 

There's an underlying current of competitiveness and one-upsmanship among these Youtubers, which is unavoidable among the channels who are competing for the same pool of potential Likes and Subscribes.  

 

On my journey of learning music theory, my teachers never spoke of levels of harmonic complexity, so I just don't think of my music learning structured in that way.  One possible reason is none of those teachers seemed to have any interest in playing video games - the notion of "levels" of knowledge seem to come from gaming enthusiasts.  All of the above guys talking about levels are young enough to have had exposure to video game culture to some degree since childhood.

 

Today's students of music are capable of applying the Bruce Lee learning strategy with all of the above, as well as sources not directly mentioned in this thread (classical texts, transcription/analysis of recordings, etc.) - absorb what is useful, discard the useless.

[ProfD]

Non-existent record deals and CD or download sales and shrinking gigs, no problem....YouTube has definitely provided another revenue stream for musicians turned educators.😎

[AROIOS]

10 hours ago, stoken6 said:

..."Major 7 chord:

- Seventh on top: these four shapes

- Fifth on top: these four shapes

- Third on top: these four shapes

- Tonic on top: these four shapes

...

Guitars have the advantage of uniform "shapes" of a given voicing.

(Conventional) KBs don't have that luxury because of the (idiotic) design of diatonic-centric layout.

[AROIOS]

6 hours ago, stoken6 said:

...understanding *theory* is much easier on a keyboard...

Yup, I started on guitar and quickly realized there's no way I can make a 13b5 chord on guitar sound as full as it does on a KB, if even possible at all.

[AROIOS]

2 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

...I smell an attempt to one-up Jacob Collier, who famously posted a 5 levels of chord complexity video a few years back.

 

Adam Neely put up a video of 7 levels of chord complexity some time afterward.  Take that, Collier!!
...

Yeah, I've see both vids and those two definitely took it to level 10. 😆

[AROIOS]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

Non-existent record deals and CD or download sales and shrinking gigs, no problem....YouTube has definitely provided another revenue stream for musicians turned educators.😎

Interesting you mentioned that, samuraiguitarist did an interview with Tim Pierce covering exactly the topic.
 

 

[rogs]

I did try and learn some more advanced guitar chords a while back.... It did not end well !🙂

 

[GovernorSilver]

I recently started learning the piano part to "Nothin But a Heartache".   This guitarist came up with a nice sounding arrangement on guitar

 

 

I've fooled around with the chordal intro on guitar but it doesn't sound/feel as satisfying - to me - as playing it on the piano.   It could very well be that this guitarist was more willing to dispense of Mike McDonald's exact chord voicings and come up with alternatives that are more playable for him on guitar.   Also, I just love the Rhodes sound more for this song, even a Rhodes sound built on dated samples like the ones in my old Privia.

 

I may eventually create my own guitar arrangement of this song in the future.  I am still in the transcribe-and-analyze phase of learning this song.

 

All in good fun!

[Irena]

20 hours ago, AROIOS said:

Sounds like he hid level 8~10, no way a "Jazz Lord" would stop at level 7 in this vid.

Maybe it reflects the limitation from having only 6 strings?

 

 

 

No, Samurai Guitarist is right. There are exactly 7 levels. Adam Neely said so.

 

 

[AROIOS]

8 hours ago, Irena said:

No, Samurai Guitarist is right. There are exactly 7 levels. Adam Neely said so.

SG puts tritone substitution at level 6, Neely puts it at level 2, that hints a gap of 4 levels btw their systems.

I remember hearing Neely's level 5 demonstration and immediately turning the video off a couple years ago. My rusty ears weren't ready for that level of sophistication. 😆

 

 

[AROIOS]

4 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

I recently started learning the piano part to "Nothin But a Heartache".   This guitarist came up with a nice sounding arrangement on guitar

I've fooled around with the chordal intro on guitar but it doesn't sound/feel as satisfying - to me - as playing it on the piano.   It could very well be that this guitarist was more willing to dispense of Mike McDonald's exact chord voicings and come up with alternatives that are more playable for him on guitar...

He's done a good job given the limitation of voicings on a guitar. And I understand why you say it's less satisfying.

The #Am7b5 and #A9b5 he simplified are just much easier to play on a KB, especially in the context of a chord walk-up/walk-down in that song.

[murphybridget]

13 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

I recently started learning the piano part to "Nothin But a Heartache".   This guitarist came up with a nice sounding arrangement on guitar

 

 

I've fooled around with the chordal intro on guitar but it doesn't sound/feel as satisfying - to me - as playing it on the piano.   It could very well be that this guitarist was more willing to dispense of Mike McDonald's exact chord voicings and come up with alternatives that are more playable for him on guitar.   Also, I just love the Rhodes sound more for this song, even a Rhodes sound built on dated samples like the ones in my old Privia.

 

I may eventually create my own guitar arrangement of this song in the future.  I am still in the transcribe-and-analyze phase of learning this song.

 

All in good fun!

Some songs just have that special magic when played on their original instrument. The Rhodes definitely has a unique sound that can be hard to replicate on guitar.

[stoken6]

15 hours ago, AROIOS said:

Guitars have the advantage of uniform "shapes" of a given voicing.

(Conventional) KBs don't have that luxury because of the (idiotic) design of diatonic-centric layout.

The "uniform shapes" of guitar means it's possible to develop technical proficiency without being exposed to underlying theoretical aspects.

I agree about the diatonic (or "C-preferential") layout being a disadvantage. Particularly so in the subject of manuscript. I'm arranging something which switches between E major and E minor key centres (modal interchange), which for Alto and Baritone  Sax is Db Major to C# Minor. Cautionary accidentals everywhere!

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AROIOS]

10 hours ago, stoken6 said:

...I'm arranging something which switches between E major and E minor key centres (modal interchange), which for Alto and Baritone  Sax is Db Major to C# Minor. Cautionary accidentals everywhere...

I feel your pain. I live in the rustic world of 12-tone equal temperament and even simple stuff like enharmonics makes me curse. 😆