Kurzweil K2061 61-note synth!

[b3plyr]

2 hours ago, YashN said:

https://kurzweil.com/2024/02/08/the-k20-series/

 

 

From the specs shown on the page the link takes you to, there is significantly less memory than the K2700. 

[YashN]

It is supposed to be a lower budget synth than the K2700 flagship, so yes, there will be cost-cutting measures for sure.

 

There are potentially millions or more different Sample-less synths inside this if you know how to build them, and if you are bent on using samples, they can also be processed in real-time through V.A.S.T. DSP blocks...

[ElmerJFudd]

So what do we think Kurzweil can do with greater processing power; larger, faster storage and larger screen that are less expensive than what they were using in the earlier 2000 models? And what price point can they meet?

[b3plyr]

47 minutes ago, YashN said:

It is supposed to be a lower budget synth than the K2700 flagship, so yes, there will be cost-cutting measures for sure.

 

There are potentially millions or more different Sample-less synths inside this if you know how to build them, and if you are bent on using samples, they can also be processed in real-time through V.A.S.T. DSP blocks...

Yes, but the initial postings said it would be a K2700 minus the audio interface and pads. That is my point. No question it will be a powerhouse, but cost will be the critical issue. As a long time user of numerous Kurzweil products, I will say memory size is important. That is why I am so disappointed the the Forte was discontinued. Best pianos Kurzweil has every had. And they took a lot of memory.

[b3plyr]

37 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

So what do we think Kurzweil can do with greater processing power; larger, faster storage and larger screen that are less expensive than what they were using in the earlier 2000 models? And what price point can they meet?

Good questions. And the answer is they can probably do a lot. The price point is what will make the difference. And to me, weight is always a consideration although I doubt the 88 will be much (if any) lighter than the K2700. I hope it is.

[Sean M. H.]

Believe I said something similar earlier in the thread...but now that we have an official page with some specs...

 

This still seems like a pretty tight gap they are trying to fill here...I mean, whether you look at this board as 1) a K2700 with less memory, no audio interface, and new keybed/size options...or 2) a PC4 with an onboard ribbon and internal power supply...either way, seems strange to have 3 boards in the market with so much overlap.

 

...unless this is just the first step in a broader strategy for them--say if they were to make a new Forte, or discontinue the PC4 (kinda doubtful, since I think it's done pretty well and is still getting regular OS updates)

[ElmerJFudd]

I’m still not convinced ditching the audio interface is a great cost savings or the best decision depending on the price point.  
 

MODX6+ has AWM2, FMX with USB audio io at $1349.99.  
 

Roland Fantom-06, same situation $1599.99.  
 

We have to imagine a stripped down K2700 is not going to be $1299.99.  Or is it? 

[UnderGroundGr]

19 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

MODX6+ has AWM2, FMX and ANX with USB audio io at $1349.99.  

MODX6+ has no ANX...

[ElmerJFudd]

42 minutes ago, UnderGroundGr said:

MODX6+ has no ANX...

Ah, my online dealer’s description is not accurate!  Fixed! 

[L3N]

@Dave Weiser I'm interested in the K2088, the specs I want to know aren't listed yet. Are you familiar with the weight of this instrument? Or can you make a guess approximately? 

 

Thank you in advance and kind regards! 

 

 

[Dave Weiser]

On 3/2/2024 at 12:35 PM, b3plyr said:

From the specs shown on the page the link takes you to, there is significantly less memory than the K2700. 

 

The spec for sample memory is same as PC4 (2GB user, 2GB factory). I assume it will include the same sample ROM as PC4, though the preset list will be different.

[YashN]

Synth-oriented means that the Sample Memory reduction compared to the K2700 makes a lot of sense. They could even get away with reducing it further IMO.

 

There's a lot one can do with a small amount of Samples but with the flexibility of further Sample processing that Dynamic & Cascade V.A.S.T. provides, even just a single layer of V.A.S.T. 1.0.

 

People are focusing way too much on that K2700 vs K2061/88 Sample Memory size difference. It really isn't such a big deal.

 

This said, for the Sample ROM area, various classic Synth waveforms and their corresponding Natural envelopes would be interesting to have -  more like a 'nice-to-have' than 'needed' though.

 

I know there are some in, IIRC: the Contemporary ROM expansion & in Kore64. Have these been incorporated to be there by default in the Forte, PC4/K2700 line?

 

As I revisit V.A.S.T. 1.0, there are some ideas that come to mind as improvements for the Multi-Sample Keymap section. Maybe I'll say more about these at one point.

[b3plyr]

46 minutes ago, YashN said:

Synth-oriented means that the Sample Memory reduction compared to the K2700 makes a lot of sense. They could even get away with reducing it further IMO.

 

There's a lot one can do with a small amount of Samples but with the flexibility of further Sample processing that Dynamic & Cascade V.A.S.T. provides, even just a single layer of V.A.S.T. 1.0.

 

People are focusing way too much on that K2700 vs K2061/88 Sample Memory size difference. It really isn't such a big deal.

 

This said, for the Sample ROM area, various classic Synth waveforms and their corresponding Natural envelopes would be interesting to have -  more like a 'nice-to-have' than 'needed' though.

 

I know there are some in, IIRC: the Contemporary ROM expansion & in Kore64. Have these been incorporated to be there by default in the Forte, PC4/K2700 line?

 

As I revisit V.A.S.T. 1.0, there are some ideas that come to mind as improvements for the Multi-Sample Keymap section. Maybe I'll say more about these at one point.

If you ever heard the pianos on the Forte, I doubt you would say sample memory size isn’t such a big deal. As to the 20xx being synth oriented, we are still going to want great pianos. I’m sure we will get them but in the end, for the best quality pianos, sample memory size does matter.

[YashN]

1 hour ago, b3plyr said:

If you ever heard the pianos on the Forte, I doubt you would say sample memory size isn’t such a big deal. As to the 20xx being synth oriented, we are still going to want great pianos. I’m sure we will get them but in the end, for the best quality pianos, sample memory size does matter.

 

Not sure it's clear for you: the Kurzweil K2061 is going to be synth-oriented. People who like this are unlikely to care about the Piano sound or any other acoustic sounds for that matter.

 

You could give some of us a Sample-less Kurzweil and we would still have a lifetime of enjoyment with it because we actually program V.A.S.T.

[b3plyr]

2 hours ago, YashN said:

 

Not sure it's clear for you: the Kurzweil K2061 is going to be synth-oriented. People who like this are unlikely to care about the Piano sound or any other acoustic sounds for that matter.

 

You could give some of us a Sample-less Kurzweil and we would still have a lifetime of enjoyment with it because we actually program V.A.S.T.

You may be right. However, I am aware it is synth oriented, at least as initially specified. As to V.A.S.T., I have used the K2600 from day one. And also the Forte with V.A.S.T. So I also like synths and other excellent Kurzweil sounds. I was largely going on Dave Weiser’s statement that it would likely include the PC4 ROM, which implies more than a synth.

[felis]

To me, it's a PC461 with a built in ribbon, and wheels on the side which could make it as long as (or longer) than the PC4-7.

The only thing that might be a snag with calling it that would be what keybed/enclosure they decide on.

Otherwise, they seem pretty identical from what's been disclosed so far.

[Dave Weiser]

On 5/20/2024 at 6:07 AM, L3N said:

@Dave Weiser I'm interested in the K2088, the specs I want to know aren't listed yet. Are you familiar with the weight of this instrument? Or can you make a guess approximately? 

 

Thank you in advance and kind regards! 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the weight will be about the same as the K27. The K2088 has the same action and a metal enclosure, so it's probably going to weigh around 52lbs. It's just not possible to get the weight down lower with that Fatar action.

[Sundown]

It’s exciting, as I have no interest in getting another weighted board. I have a great one, and one is enough. I do record most of my parts from a Kurzweil PC361 (both as a MIDI controller and as a sound source), so if the K2061 is a worthy successor, it’s exciting.

 

Todd

[felis]

1 hour ago, Dave Weiser said:

I'm pretty sure that the weight will be about the same as the K27. The K2088 has the same action and a metal enclosure, so it's probably going to weigh around 52lbs. It's just not possible to get the weight down lower with that Fatar action.

 

K2700 action and metal enclosure for the K2088 is confirmed then?  Anything definite on that end for the K2061 yet?

[Dave Weiser]

On 5/25/2024 at 11:12 PM, felis said:

 

K2700 action and metal enclosure for the K2088 is confirmed then?  Anything definite on that end for the K2061 yet?

I've hear from my friends at R&D that the K2061 will have a TP9 synth action, and it also has a metal enclosure.

[stoken6]

12 hours ago, Dave Weiser said:

I've hear from my friends at R&D that the K2061 will have a TP9 synth action, and it also has a metal enclosure.

Build quality? In 2024? Surely not. You'll be telling me it has aftertouch next...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Adam Burgess]

In all my 30 odd years playing, I've never owned a Kurz. I really feel like I should one day.

A good quality 61 I could be tempted with. Need some more gigs to justify... been a crap year so far!

[CyberGene]

@Adam Burgess +1

[YashN]

On 5/24/2024 at 9:25 PM, b3plyr said:

As to V.A.S.T., I have used the K2600 from day one. And also the Forte with V.A.S.T. So I also like synths and other excellent Kurzweil sounds. I was largely going on Dave Weiser’s statement that it would likely include the PC4 ROM, which implies more than a synth.

 

If the PC4 / K2700 line doesn't include the extra Forte Sample ROM piano, the new one is unlikely to include it. This said, there is a good chance you can work on some custom Piano based on the internal Piano Sample ROM although the Internal Sample ROM is smaller in size. That could be an interesting Programming challenge, actually. If not programming, you're probably still better off with the larger Forte piano sound.

 

This morning, I worked on Layers for an under-utilised method of Synthesis. I created 24 Layers with differing architectures and for now I've left it at that. If we consider Programs made with 1 Layer only, there are 24 ALGs of this new 'Synth', not counting internal settings and/or real-time manipulations of sounds. If we consider 2 Layers per Program, there are 24 * 24 combinations, i.e.  576 ALGs of this new Synth.

 

3 Layers per Program = 24^3 = 13,824 ALGs of this new Synth.

 

If we stop just there, that makes 14,424 ALGs of this new Synth.

 

I can add more Layers in the set of constituent Layers, e.g. I could add one which is very multi-sample processing oriented, and another one for Noise-based processing, etc...

 

Then we can also consider making 4 or more Layers per Program...

 

The number of total ALGs explode Combinatorially.

 

And that's just ONE method... using V.A.S.T. 1.0 on a K2500, i.e. not using any Live Mode, Triple Mode, Cascade Mode, Dynamic Edits, no KDFX...

 

There are many more methods of Synthesis.

 

This is why for me, the internal Piano sounds isn't such a big thing. For sure, I am a bit biased because my interests are more Synth-oriented as in 'for Electronic music', than acoustic-oriented, so the 'synth-oriented' nature of the K2061 appeals to me and people like me.

Furthermore, if you look around on classified ads near you, you can probably find someone giving an acoustic piano away for free. Sure, you have to factor in a few things: they are less portable, you better get some help if it's of the larger variety to transport it, you may have to hire a professional piano tuner, make repairs (just ensure the soundboard is OK, cracks notwithstanding) etc...

[YashN]

Here's something to ponder on. Tim Shoebridge makes a video of trying one his PC3 'one last time before putting it up for sale'.

The title is 'A Kurzweil PC3 for Orchestra Anyone?' not 'A Kurzweil PC3, one of the most powerful synths ever?'

 

Why?

 

 

[J.F.N.]

Apparently they flashed the 2061 at Superbooth, though I've found really nothing new in the media so I guess they had nothing new to communicate in public yet, which feels a bit odd!

 

I hope we get some updates soon, with no Forte 7 available anymore, they're even tough to find used, I start to get used to the idea of a K2700, or potentially the 2088...

 

Means my Jaspers will have to be modified with new tubes (it's a 120cm wide now) no matter... 🤪