Touchscreen or Midi when playing live?

[Ibarch]

I've been using a laptop with a lightweight keyboard for a while when playing live sometimes. Although I like Steinberg VST Live and it has all the features I need for creating setlists, setting up patches for each song and switching patches, I haven't been comfortable using the touchscreen.  It is not so bad to switch songs but changing parts during a song, muting/unmuting some parts or adjusting volumes I find tricky. 

I decided I wanted to use MIDI to control everything and have tactile buttons, knobs and faders. My Casio CT-S500 has few controls, so I acquired a Korg NanoKontrol midi controller. This has 8 sets of faders, mute, solo and record buttons, plus transport controls and other programmable buttons. The form factor fits perfectly on top of the Casio, being long but limited height.  This has been an absolute revelation. It has removed all anxieties from controlling the laptop during performances. I no longer have to touch the screen for anything. Even simple things like having illuminated Mute buttons so I can see which sounds are currently active has made a difference.

I'm interested in how other people that use tablets or computers live get on. Do you use touch screens or Midi to run your sets, change songs and edit patches whilst performing?     

[Reezekeys]

Midi. My laptop is behind me and I have no need to look at it or touch it while I play. That would be a distraction. When I’m playing my keyboard that’s all I want to deal with. Any moves I need to do as far as controlling my setup using my controller’s faders, buttons & pads are now intuitive. IOW I can concentrate on the notes - not what’s making the notes.

[Baldwin Funster]

Touch screen is too imprecise in a pressure situation like a gig. I have everything I possibly can mapped to midi controls.

[Tusker]

Same. Hardware. Everything is mapped and my eyes are hopefully on the audience and my bandmates. I want to stomp something or flick something or press something using muscle memory...

[nursers]

I use MainStage as essentially a MIDI switcher i.e. I have the night's set list organised in Mainstage and I hit one key (down arrow) on the laptop to move  to the next song and both keyboards switch to what's needed.

[CHarrell]

I'm making the transition to a software driven setup, this is all great info to read.

 

What's people's preference for an add-on controller for MIDI?

[CEB]

Not sure.   I use a touchscreen and MIDI but no laptops or tablets or anything like that.  I use knobs, footswitches and sliders also.   My main board is basically a 88 key Linux computer with a touchscreen controller and 9 software engines.  Increment through setlist with a footswitch and control internal and external zones with the main board using MIDI.  It is what it is.  I don't like add-on anything.  The fewer extraneous devices and doo-dads the better.

 

However, If I play organ I do it on an organ no MIDI.  I manually pull registrations or select drawbar presets.  Live I use an SKx which has non organ sounds but I don't use them.

[Ibarch]

6 hours ago, CHarrell said:

I'm making the transition to a software driven setup, this is all great info to read.

 

What's people's preference for an add-on controller for MIDI?

 

I use a Korg Nanokontrol2.

https://www.korg.com/uk/products/computergear/nanokontrol2/

[Jose EB5AGV]

30 minutes ago, Ibarch said:

 

I use a Korg Nanokontrol2.

https://www.korg.com/uk/products/computergear/nanokontrol2/

 

Very interesting thread for me... I am still trying to figure out how to setup my laptop based rig, mostly for fun, no need it yet (my MODX6+ / MONTAGE 6 is all what I need now)

 

And indeed I have a new Nanokontrol 2, like the one pictured. But my first tests along Gig Performer were not OK, so it is now disconnected. I wonder if someone uses that combination as in theory it covered all my needs

[Ibarch]

I don't use Gig Performer, I have Steinberg's VST Live instead. I would expect that they both work in a similar manner. 

 

Is there a specific issue you are having? The Nanokontrol2 is programmable and it took me a little trial and error and tweaking of this plus the bindings in VST Live to get it exactly how I want.

 

For example, after using the midi learn feature in VST Live to map to the mute button, I had to edit the binding to send a data value range from 0 to 127. Midi learn had decided the button sent a value of 127 only, so the mute would not turn off. I also had to edit the nanokontrol and change the button from momentary to held, to keep mute on after letting go of the button. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

2 hours ago, Ibarch said:

I don't use Gig Performer, I have Steinberg's VST Live instead. I would expect that they both work in a similar manner. 

 

Is there a specific issue you are having? The Nanokontrol2 is programmable and it took me a little trial and error and tweaking of this plus the bindings in VST Live to get it exactly how I want.

 

For example, after using the midi learn feature in VST Live to map to the mute button, I had to edit the binding to send a data value range from 0 to 127. Midi learn had decided the button sent a value of 127 only, so the mute would not turn off. I also had to edit the nanokontrol and change the button from momentary to held, to keep mute on after letting go of the button. 

 

Thanks, this is reassuring!. I have also located a thread on the Gig Performer forum on exactly using the Nanokontrol 2 with it, so it can be used. I need to work more on this project 👍🏻

[Reezekeys]

I've had an original NanoKontrol for years and it's saved my butt a few times when I needed to do a show and for whatever reason my own keyboard wasn't available. I carry a small stick of "artist's putty", a reusable clay-like adhesive that leaves no marks - a few globs on any provided keyboard and I'm ready for action.

 

The original Nano has nine sliders vs the NK2's eight. Their throw is extremely short (this applies to both vintages) so I'm not sure a drawbar jockey would be very happy mapping these to a Hammond VI - but in an emergency it's better than nothing. For myself, I turn on & off different sounds, choose presets, trigger percussion loops, and of course mix everything along with having a master volume slider. Give me a DX7 from 1984 or the cheapest Casio - if it has >=61 keys, a sustain pedal, and outputs midi I'm good to go.

[tnelson]

The artist's putty tip is brilliant!  I've used strips of spongy grippy shelf paper for the same purpose, but the putty sounds like the winner....

[CHarrell]

9 hours ago, Ibarch said:

 

I use a Korg Nanokontrol2.

https://www.korg.com/uk/products/computergear/nanokontrol2/

 

Thanks! Seems like a very popular choice. I'm trying to imagine a setup where I can have my VTines set up, for example, with a controller manipulating things like effect on/off, depth/rate, etc, but it's hard for me to imagine with the NK2. Does anyone have any advice on that end?

[Reezekeys]

51 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

I'm trying to imagine a setup where I can have my VTines set up, for example, with a controller manipulating things like effect on/off, depth/rate, etc, but it's hard for me to imagine with the NK2. Does anyone have any advice on that end?

 

On-off parameters are usually mapped to switches - in the NK's case that's the buttons, and the variable parameters can be assigned to either a slider or knob.

 

I might use one channel of the NK for this. The knob can do rate, the slider depth (or vice-versa), and one of the buttons can just turn it on or off. You'll have to look in VTines's manual or online support docs to get exactly what parameters they expose and what the default midi CC numbers they use. Set the Nano's controls to those numbers (and channel), the button to latching, and you should be good.

[CHarrell]

7 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

and one of the buttons can just turn it on or off.

 

Maybe I'm not looking carefully enough but the buttons I see on the NK are things like track mute/solo, are there other buttons I'm not seeing?

[Reezekeys]

Korg labels them like this but they are fully configurable in their editor software. You can assign any midi control change number you want, to control anything.

 

On my NK1 I have the transport buttons sending control changes that change my leslie speed, turn on percussion, etc. They're labeled as transport controls but don't transport anything!

[CHarrell]

28 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Korg labels them like this but they are fully configurable in their editor software. You can assign any midi control change number you want, to control anything.

 

On my NK1 I have the transport buttons sending control changes that change my leslie speed, turn on percussion, etc. They're labeled as transport controls but don't transport anything!

 

Good to know! So if you have the transport controls mapped to parameters such as rotary, do you have other buttons somewhere dedicated to turning on/off instruments for layering etc? (I imagine you'd want to turn them off rather than muting for CPU usage?)

[Reezekeys]

46 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

Good to know! So if you have the transport controls mapped to parameters such as rotary, do you have other buttons somewhere dedicated to turning on/off instruments for layering etc? (I imagine you'd want to turn them off rather than muting for CPU usage?)

 

Yes, I do use buttons to turn a few instruments on & off. I used to map them to turning the plugin on & off to save CPU but that was on my older laptop. That has the unfortunate effect of cutting off notes if they're sustaining (via my pedal) or just decaying. With my newer M2-powered Mac that's not necessary. I leave the plugins active but thought of a slightly more clever way to turn them on & off - I map the button to a midi message filter to switch between allowing or blocking note-on messages only. Note-offs and sustain pedal messages are always passed. That way I can be holding or sustaining a chord, turn an instrument off (i.e., block note-ons), and all the sounding notes will continue to play until I release them or come off the sustain pedal.

 

Here's my current setup for AWB on my NanoK. I carry this cheat sheet with me because I use the Nano so infrequently (the goal is not to have to use it at all!). Some of the buttons have dual functions - I'm trying to duplicate what I have going on my Roland controller which has more controls!

 

 

[UnderGroundGr]

The last time i played live was in 2011 with my Kurzweil K2661, so midi...🤣

[Tusker]

14 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Here's my current setup for AWB on my NanoK. I carry this cheat sheet with me because I use the Nano so infrequently (the goal is not to have to use it at all!).

 

QFT

 

Most of the time a keyboardist needs a keyboard, maybe a swell pedal, maybe some other interface elements (drawbars, mod wheels) from different keyboarding disciplines. These are for expression. There are what I call add-ons: breath controller, more knobs and switches, track pads. All for expression.

 

In a somewhat different category is what I call rig management. These can include volume sliders, mute buttons, kill switches. The lines between categories can blur but it's still helpful to have the categories. If something belongs in the first category, it's good to rehearse and activate muscle memory. If something belongs in the second category, you hope not to have to tweak it.

 

Reeze has the most comprehensively programmed NanoK I have ever seen. 👏 💪 My Novation Nocturne is now hiding its head in shame in the closet. 😀 😅