Lowest end keyboards: a pity for wannabe players

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

On 6/24/2023 at 11:25 AM, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

It is perhaps more a critique on parents who buy the cheapest thing which resembles a piano, instead of doing their homework better.

 

That describes my parents exactly.  Even well into young-adulthood, if there was something I really wanted I learned to just save up and buy it myself.  Often they'd get mad afterward, saying I should have told them I wanted it so they could get it for me for Christmas...  Sure, but it's June!  And they'd just look up the item in the store and buy one three rungs further down the pricing ladder instead.

 

I've only been back into playing music for about five years now, but for much of that I was using a $170 Casio CTX-700.  Sure, the keys are springy and squeaky but I like many of the sounds it has.  Enough so I bought another Casio when it came time for a fully-weighted 88-key board.  I keep the old one though for those songs I need a second board on.

[Ibarch]

I would worry less about the availability of a decent low end controller and more about the lack of any inspiration to learn basic keyboard skills. 

 

Why bother when all that is needed is a single keypress to fire off any number of options, such as appegiators, auto chords, arranger backing, samples. Hell, why even learn about chords when you can buy a chord pack? Or scales and modes, when you can hit any note and it is translated into the scale anyway? 

[Joe Muscara]

When I was a kid, there was a point when I wanted to play guitar. We bought the cheapest guitar they had at Sam Trash. We took it home, and found out it couldn't hold the tension in the strings to stay in tune. We brought it back, told a sales guy about the problem with it, and he said, "yeah, I know. These are like that."  So we moved up to the next model in price.

 

Both of these were less than $100, and that was the most we could do at the time.

 

For some people, the absolute lowest priced instrument is about the most they can afford.

[ProfD]

1st world privilege allows one to assume folks can afford to buy a quality instrument. 

 

While many homes had acoustic pianos, most did not.  Same goes for piano lessons. 

 

However, many aspiring musicians have learned how to play piano in churches under the tutelage of elders.

 

The reality is that a gifted or talented or aspiring musician can learn on anything from an institution acoustic piano or B3 to a cheap electronic KB. 

There's no shortage of musicians past and present who learned how to play piano under less than ideal circumstances and/or without the benefit of a quality instrument.

 

A desire to learn and exposure to an instrument is the key (no pun intended). A cheap instrument could be the gateway.  Cream rises to the top.😎

[GovernorSilver]

I first learned how to play guitar on my college roommate's guitar.  He generously taught me my first chords, then let me play the guitar when he was out for work or other activities.   He bought the guitar for $30 at a local swap meet.   The action was on the high side, but it seemed to hold its tuning reasonably.  Neither of us were particularly hard strummers.  

 

If I wasn't that interested in playing guitar, the high action and pain caused by the strings when I tried to play that F major chord next to the nut would have been enough to make me say "I give up" and move on with my life.  But I somehow got fascinated enough to keep going, putting up with the pain of building up calluses on my fretting hand fingers.   I actually learned piano before guitar, but I gave up on playing keys quickly after I moved out of the childhood home and thus had less access to the upright piano in that home.  I simply didn't have as much passion for leveling up on the keys as I had for learning to play guitar.  

 

There are kids out there who are even more determined than I was.  They will not be stopped by lack of access to the best quality gear.   The quality of $200 or less portable keyboards is amazing these days compared to when I started college.  Heck there's a somewhat youth orchestra full of kids playing instruments built out of parts found in the trash.

[Jose EB5AGV]

21 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

The quality of $200 or less portable keyboards is amazing these days compared to when I started college.

 

Yes, of course. Please, note that what I am referring are the sub-$100, lowest quality keyboards, which sometimes even come with bench and headphones... Those are just crap, and having a 14 y.o. playing only that thing hurts my mind. Also knowing that they can afford a better keyboard, but just didn't know better and probably got blinded by the huge percentage of 5 and 4 stars rating on the article page (hint: AZ ratings are mostly crap). I don't blame them as buyers, but think those "instruments" stink and can have detrimental effects to new players

[GovernorSilver]

1 hour ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

Yes, of course. Please, note that what I am referring are the sub-$100, lowest quality keyboards, which sometimes even come with bench and headphones... Those are just crap, and having a 14 y.o. playing only that thing hurts my mind. Also knowing that they can afford a better keyboard, but just didn't know better and probably got blinded by the huge percentage of 5 and 4 stars rating on the article page (hint: AZ ratings are mostly crap). I don't blame them as buyers, but think those "instruments" stink and can have detrimental effects to new players

 

Those are different problems aren't they?

 

Buying a keyboard because you don't know any better vs. buying it because you couldn't afford a more expensive one.

 

If that 14 y.o. you mentioned has the drive, they will eventually figure things out, even if the gear they buy is as "wrong" for them as you think.  They will eventually sell it or trade it, if necessary, and replace with something more appropriate.  We should not underestimate their ability to think and research for themselves.

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

49 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

 

If that 14 y.o. you mentioned has the drive, they will eventually figure things out, even if the gear they buy is as "wrong" for them as you think.  They will eventually sell it or trade it, if necessary, and replace with something more appropriate.  We should not underestimate their ability to think and research for themselves.

+2

 

The only "unplayable" keyboard I ever tried to play was a child-size toy which had keys narrower than normal.  All my "muscle memory" was useless on it. LOL

[Mills Dude]

Resonates with me a bit. I was 14 when I started piano lessons without any piano in the house but my mom worked at a facility where I had access to a piano, so I would go with her to work in the evenings, help her and get my practice time in.

 

Summer when I was 15, had my first job and wanted to use the earnings to buy a keyboard but I had no idea that places like Sam Ash (only real option in those days, early 80s) or that Keyboard magazine existed.  So my mom took me to the piano store and I bought some crappy Multivox MX60 electric piano, 61 keys, no velocity for more than $800.  Sounded like an RMI but worse. Had no idea there were better options.

 

Later when I got my drivers license and made my first trip to the mecca of Sam Ash in Paramus, NJ the world of possibilities opened.  Would've been much better and cheaper for me at the time to buy a used Wurly instead of that monstrosity.  Even for bad high school bands, that Multivox was not really usable.

 

We're in different times now with the interwebz and all but I don't know if the options for naïve parents trying to get their kids setup with something has improved.  There are a confusing set of choices at so many price points.  There's the decision about getting something with piano-like action and sounds to get those fundamentals along with having something that could possibly tweak some modern music artistry.

 

I feel that most piano teachers would push for a lower end Privia, Yamaha or Roland DP because their focus would be on building technique with a weighted key feel.  But unless those kids started at 4 years old and have been drilling their technique for years, concert pianist ain't really a career option. For my kids, I would want them to have other options than just piano.  And we all know that if you really want to build piano technique there is no substitute for the real thing.

 

I was just having this conversation with my brother-in-law.  My niece is 19, been taking piano lessons for a number of years.  She can play ok but is limited to sheet music.  They have a decent Kawai vertical but she wants to record herself playing and singing to post on Tik Tok.  I recommended a Numa X Piano 73 as something that may feel comfortable as a piano for her but also has some modernish synthy stuff and can be embellished with a PC or iPad.  Its definitely a pro-level KB and may be overkill for her but he's got the money to spend and the lesser options all seem to fall a bit short.  Perhaps the CK88 would fit there also but price point is still in the $1500 range. 

[David Emm]

A young person with anything more than a passing interest should obviously have a decent instrument. I was one of the contributors who helped land a used Nord Electro 3 for a friend's talented son. After all of the random acoustics & a Yamaha PSR, he was hungry for Better and boy, did he light up when he first laid hands to it. I'd place him in the Young Jazz Lion category. He grinned when I said "How dare you be a far better player than I was ever going to be??" I was the one in the group who really knew what a Nord was, so once I described it, the deal was a lock. Helping someone reach that next level is immeasurably inspiring, especially after a parade of sub-par instruments.

 

"I complained that I had no Synclavier until I met someone who had only a Jupiter-8 cloisonne pin." 🤨

[bill5]

4 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

Those are different problems aren't they?

 

Buying a keyboard because you don't know any better vs. buying it because you couldn't afford a more expensive one.

 

If that 14 y.o. you mentioned has the drive, they will eventually figure things out, even if the gear they buy is as "wrong" for them as you think.  They will eventually sell it or trade it, if necessary, and replace with something more appropriate.  We should not underestimate their ability to think and research for themselves.

Yep I was curious and looked around...there appear to be at least a few sub-$100 keyboards which I'm betting are at least passable for someone just starting out, although bumping this to even $150ish opens up a lot more and better-looking options. Really it's not a fair request to expect a good keyboard for such low prices IMO. Better to find one used and get a better one. When I was looking for a temporary, cheap keyboard just to bang around on some years back, I found a Casio CTK4200 workstation....61 keys, tons of options, synth action, actually some surprisingly good sounds. $55. 

[GovernorSilver]

7 hours ago, bill5 said:

Yep I was curious and looked around...there appear to be at least a few sub-$100 keyboards which I'm betting are at least passable for someone just starting out, although bumping this to even $150ish opens up a lot more and better-looking options. Really it's not a fair request to expect a good keyboard for such low prices IMO. Better to find one used and get a better one. When I was looking for a temporary, cheap keyboard just to bang around on some years back, I found a Casio CTK4200 workstation....61 keys, tons of options, synth action, actually some surprisingly good sounds. $55. 

 

The smart, driven kids will figure out the same thing - if the kid has a $100 budget and there isn't anything new that meets their requirements, they'll quickly figure out to shop for used items.

 

... or simply hold off buying right away and... save money over time... .   Back in the day, young folks worked a paper route or something to save up for their first gear.  Today is a different time but todays kids have options.

[bill5]

Exactly...and today they have the advantage of even low-end gear being so much better. I have no sympathy for them.  

[AROIOS]

15 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

...Heck there's a somewhat youth orchestra full of kids playing instruments built out of parts found in the trash.

Thanks for reminding me of the "Trash Orchestra", it's a truly inspiring story.

 

[Stokely]

I think the ipad (or computer) as a sound source idea is not a bad one.  Watching my own kids grow up and do stuff with their friends, kids today are extremely tech-savvy with no effort at all.  They don't have all the pre-conceived ideas about pianos and keyboards vs ipads and computers and "phones" (because today's smartphones are computers, it's weird to still call them a phone!).   It's still novel to me to imagine fantastic sound coming from a phone app (say Model D), but a kid will have no such surprise, and most of them will have no problems figuring out the connections and settings.   Not all surely so you'd have to evaluate the kid in question.   But they've all been listening to music and watching videos and connecting up their phones since most of them could walk.

If you go that way, you don't have to spend much to get a halfway-decent controller, and you can get (probably, I'm guessing) much better sound quality from something like say Korg Module than you would from some <$100 keyboard.  Garageband was free for that matter, not sure if it still is.   And as a plus, it opens up the world of software instruments, effects and daws, which even to a dinosaur like me is an amazing one.  I would have *killed* to have everything in the box back in the day (though hardware for live still to this day!)

[Adam Burgess]

16 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I think the ipad (or computer) as a sound source idea is not a bad one. 

Garageband

 I would have *killed* to have everything in the box back in the day (though hardware for live still to this day!)

This is so true. Kids have grown up with iPhones and iPads. It's the total norm for them. 
And they'll have one hanging round that'll sound so much better than my first Yamaha PSR-12 and a semi-tone flat beaten upright at home! Mind, that did me no wrong! Somehow became my job!

[Stokely]

Putting aside the whole "should kids be on devices" argument    it's almost creepy to see a really young kid on an ipad or iphone.   The ones I've seen can use it faster than I can very quickly indeed.  We are talking toddlers.

[ProfD]

Technology has lowered the barrier of entry for aspiring musicians, music producers and recording engineers, etc. 

 

Similarly, younger folks have always embraced the latest technology faster than their elders. 

 

That's why a toddler can use a cell phone or tablet better than their grandparents and some parents. 🤣😎

[Stokely]

All true, but still you'd think you'd have to sit down at least once and explain gestures, swipes, or how a mouse works to adjust that little thing you see on screen etc.  Nope.  The little blighters pick it up instantly, probably just from glancing up and seeing you do it, but also because they seem to find it intuitive.  As I say, a bit creepy   

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

All true, but still you'd think you'd have to sit down at least once and explain gestures, swipes, or how a mouse works to adjust that little thing you see on screen etc.  Nope.  The little blighters pick it up instantly, probably just from glancing up and seeing you do it, but also because they seem to find it intuitive.  As I say, a bit creepy   

Yeah, my kids knew from the first time their boogery toddler fingers touched an iPad, how to use it. They are born into a world where literally everything is new and unfamiliar by definition, even basic stuff like poop probably should shoot downward instead of up all over your back and hair, and yet the learning curve for navigating iPad was 0.0 microseconds.