Kurzweil K2700 Issues

[BKZ3]

I'm only a couple of shows deep into the life of a musical theatre keyboardist, but there are a couple of issues that even my MD, who is a seasoned Kurzweil user, doesn't know how to solve. First, there is one problem that she did solve, but still seems odd to me. She initially had delay issues with patch-changing, and when she contacted Kurzweil, their response was that the K2700s weren't "made to do that." The solution was to edit each program and turn off all of the FX, which isn't a deal breaker, but it makes me feel like we're not getting the full package. I know these are marketed as the musical theatre keyboards, which makes the "they weren't made to do that" response confusing. Honestly, I'm not sure there is a better work around when I need to occasionally change patches every couple of bars without hiccup, but is this normal? (There's a delay period, regardless of how often a patch change occurs, if I forget to turn off the Program FX.) Do big name productions have to program bare-bones sounds for all of their shows, too? I'm a Kurzweil convert, but if, for example, Yamaha doesn't have this issue, it's certainly a consideration.

 

Now for the problems that haven't been solved:

1. The most glaring and annoying issue is a previous patch sticking when I change to a new one. If I make a sudden change, and I'm holding a note when I hit the foot switch, that note will sometimes stick, and the only thing that shuts it off is the PANIC button. I'm all about patch persist, but not like this. Nothing sucks more than being on melody, or another important countermelody or gesture, and a french horn from the previous bar is blaring and I have to drop out to smash PANIC. How would I solve this? Is it purely choreography? Sometimes, I do want a note to hold, or the lines move too fast for me to consistently get off the note before changing. Isn't this something the keyboard should be able to handle? Super frustrating.
2. A more recent annoyance is that, sometimes, one of the layers in my multi won't sound at all until I wiggle the expression pedal. Again, if I'm changing suddenly, I don't always have the time to adjust the pedal without noticeably interrupting the line. What results is my oboe on melody just cutting in halfway through a phrase. I thought maybe it's the pedal itself (Roland EV-5), but it's not consistent, and I don't necessarily have the option of buying a new one. I also thought maybe it's something in the edit menu (when I was programming, I discovered 800 patches too late that each layer needs to have Pedal 1a on MIDI 64 to respond to the sustain pedal), but I can't think of what.

 

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

[Bobby Simons]

Sounds like questions for Dave Weiser.

[Bill W]

Yeah, I was going to say Dave Weiser is the authority on Kurzweil stuff.

 

Kurzweil doesn't exactly support seamless switching between sounds and I don't think they claim to. It seems to work well enough with individual programs, but not in multis and not at all if you use the KB3 engine. AFAIK, only the Korg Kronos, Korg Nautilus, a couple of the Roland Fantoms, Yamaha Montage, and some Nords support that (and if you use the Fantom's organ engine, all bets are off). 

[voxpops]

I don't have the K2700 but do have the SP6. The first issue you mentioned about the delay in patch switching can be partially worked around by setting up a multi with a sequence of programs that you then switch between using the zone buttons underneath the faders. I assume you can assign up to 9 zones/programs on the K2700. I do this frequently on the SP6 to avoid FX glitches when switching between programs. It works seamlessly as all the FX are already assigned and loaded per multi. The only limitation is that I sometimes run out of FX resources if I have more than two or three effect-hungry programs (such as KB3 plus piano) in a multi, but I assume the K2700 has more horsepower in that area.

 

Regarding your note-sticking problem, it sounds potentially like the patch change note-off MIDI command is being overridden by the held note, but is then not triggered when you release that key. I just tried a few patch changes with held notes in both program and multi modes on the SP6, but experienced no stuck notes. In Global mode I also changed between "Immediate" and "AllKeysUp" for multi mode patch changes to see if that made any difference - which it didn't. Could it be a small firmware issue in the K2700 that could be easily resolved by Kurzweil? It might be worth contacting them about that.

 

In terms of the expression pedal problem, my VR-09 always seems to default to a full-on start position per patch - no matter where the expression pedal is set - whereas the SP6 normally reads the current position of the pedal, although it does seem to vary sometimes depending on whether that multi has been previously accessed in the session (perhaps remembering the pedal state???). I don't actually use expression pedal very much with my SP6, but I did just experiment with setting the value to 127 on one multi vs "NONE" on another and then the board reset the pedal every time I reverted to the one with value 127 (but not on the other). I think the default position is "NONE" so it's worth giving some of your multis a 127 value to see if that solves the issue. 

[jason88]

Chiming in as I agree with the above post. I have had a few occasional hiccups when patch switching (not often, pretty rare).  Some of the parameters on certain programs default to "none" and I have found that giving them an actual number assignment (1, 50, 127, whatever...) seems to help this issue. I wouldn't waste my time doing this for every parameter on every program, but if you encounter a patch/program that seems to be doing this consistently, it might be worth a try. I have imported a few user programs that when I switch between I can get issues with the FX not registering, or being tied to the current position of the sliders. I noticed that on those programs if the parameter setting was set to NONE, but I changed it to a certain value, it seemed to be clear the issue in most cases. I'll note that factory sounds haven't done this to me, I've only encountered it in very few user imports.

[Delaware Dave]

in either midi mode or master mode on my PC3 (cant remember which one) there is an option that when you make the program switch whether the change is immediate or delayed until you release all the keys.  check the K2700 manual regarding the functionality there.  in terms of the explanation of "the keyboard doesnt do that function" is complete BS.  Ever since the technical help moved away from Jean (their tech lead) to the new 'helpless desk', many of the answers are just simply wrong. be sure that the programs and every zone in every multi has an exit value of 127.  example, if you use a multi and zone 2 has an exit value of 0, the next multi that you use that has a zone 2 will be silent until you wiggle the pedal to reset the zone volume. this is because the exit value from the previous multi is still in effect.  ensure all zones in all multi's have an exit value of 127.  also, in either midi mode or master mode there is a function that dictates what the exit volume value of all the programs do, be sure that  program volume exit value is also set to 127.

 

Read the manual!  The K2700 is a highly complex machine that can do anything and also do the things that right now arent happening for you. there are menu settings that need to be reconfigured to make the unit work the way you want it to work.  all the things that you mention work on my PC3 and the K2700 has the same functionality plus additional functionality.  The manual explains it, you just need to read it and understand it.

 

note sticking, are you holding down the sustain pedal when you make the program change and not releasing the sustain pedal?  holding down the sustain pedal is like holding down keys with your fingers, the Kurz will hold those notes (even though you changed programs) until the sustain pedal is released so ensure when you change programs that you also release the sustain pedal.  Hitting the 'panic' button is nothing more than resetting the controllers to 0, so if you were holding down the sustain pedal the panic button would release the sustain pedal even though you are holding down the pedal.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Entry and Exit values in the multis are what I would work on first - I came to Kurzweil from Yamaha and Korg, where that wasn't really a thing. With such a powerful unit comes lots of intricacies that wouldn't necessarily occur to one to look for.

[BKZ3]

6 hours ago, voxpops said:

I don't have the K2700 but do have the SP6. The first issue you mentioned about the delay in patch switching can be partially worked around by setting up a multi with a sequence of programs that you then switch between using the zone buttons underneath the faders. I assume you can assign up to 9 zones/programs on the K2700. I do this frequently on the SP6 to avoid FX glitches when switching between programs. It works seamlessly as all the FX are already assigned and loaded per multi. The only limitation is that I sometimes run out of FX resources if I have more than two or three effect-hungry programs (such as KB3 plus piano) in a multi, but I assume the K2700 has more horsepower in that area.

Interesting. That would work well in sections that alternate other instruments on top of, say, a bed of strings; I'll look into that, thank you!
 

6 hours ago, voxpops said:

Regarding your note-sticking problem, it sounds potentially like the patch change note-off MIDI command is being overridden by the held note, but is then not triggered when you release that key. I just tried a few patch changes with held notes in both program and multi modes on the SP6, but experienced no stuck notes. In Global mode I also changed between "Immediate" and "AllKeysUp" for multi mode patch changes to see if that made any difference - which it didn't. Could it be a small firmware issue in the K2700 that could be easily resolved by Kurzweil? It might be worth contacting them about that.

 

I wondered about the note-off command, too. @Delaware Dave mentioned the possibility that it's a sustain pedal issue, but, off the top of my head, I remember it sticking regardless of what I did with my foot. It happens so inconsistently that it's difficult to narrow it down to one patch and replicate. I'll see about updating the firmware. I know their pit units are probably behind. I'm just hesitant to do it during the run in case it erases anything, or screws with settings. The installation instructions say that all user memory is erased during the update, and even though I can save multis to USB and reload, I'd rather not risk any further potential for glitching.
 

7 hours ago, voxpops said:

I don't actually use expression pedal very much with my SP6, but I did just experiment with setting the value to 127 on one multi vs "NONE" on another and then the board reset the pedal every time I reverted to the one with value 127 (but not on the other). I think the default position is "NONE" so it's worth giving some of your multis a 127 value to see if that solves the issue. 

I'll check this out, thanks!
 

5 hours ago, jason88 said:

I have found that giving them an actual number assignment (1, 50, 127, whatever...) seems to help this issue

I do this, just in case, with MIDI 96 on Pedal 2a for patch changes. For some reason, the MD's keyboard operates fine on "None," but mine responds to actual numbers.
 

3 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

be sure that the programs and every zone in every multi has an exit value of 127.  example, if you use a multi and zone 2 has an exit value of 0, the next multi that you use that has a zone 2 will be silent until you wiggle the pedal to reset the zone volume. this is because the exit value from the previous multi is still in effect.  ensure all zones in all multi's have an exit value of 127.  also, in either midi mode or master mode there is a function that dictates what the exit volume value of all the programs do, be sure that  program volume exit value is also set to 127.

Excellent, thank you. I'll look into this when I get back to the theatre. I've run into things like this before, where for whatever reason, the function is either turned off, or the numbers are all tweaked. I bet this will fix it.

 

3 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

The manual explains it, you just need to read it and understand it.

Agreed. I just don't always understand what I'm reading. This is where YouTube and forums like this are super helpful.

[BKZ3]

3 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

Hitting the 'panic' button is nothing more than resetting the controllers to 0, so if you were holding down the sustain pedal the panic button would release the sustain pedal even though you are holding down the pedal.

I will try to replicate this when I get back to the theatre. As I mentioned above, I don't remember keeping my foot on the pedal during these moments -- I do try to release everything when it happens -- but it could be as simple as that. Still annoying, but I will dive into more of the settings to check things like note-off.

 

3 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Entry and Exit values in the multis are what I would work on first - I came to Kurzweil from Yamaha and Korg, where that wasn't really a thing. With such a powerful unit comes lots of intricacies that wouldn't necessarily occur to one to look for.

Thanks for the tip. I'm going to look at those. I've considered the Montage for my own unit, but more recently settled on buying a K2700, because it's of more use to the theatre if I really know those keyboards. I've listened to some comparisons on YouTube, and I do prefer the Kurzweil overall, but what @Bill W said about seamless switching on the Montage has me intrigued. From what I've read, experienced, and heard from everyone here, though, I should be able to smooth out my issues on the K2700. What made you switch to Kurzweil?

[Mighty Motif Max]

2 hours ago, BKZ3 said:

 

5 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Entry and Exit values in the multis are what I would work on first - I came to Kurzweil from Yamaha and Korg, where that wasn't really a thing. With such a powerful unit comes lots of intricacies that wouldn't necessarily occur to one to look for.

Thanks for the tip. I'm going to look at those. I've considered the Montage for my own unit, but more recently settled on buying a K2700, because it's of more use to the theatre if I really know those keyboards. I've listened to some comparisons on YouTube, and I do prefer the Kurzweil overall, but what @Bill W said about seamless switching on the Montage has me intrigued. From what I've read, experienced, and heard from everyone here, though, I should be able to smooth out my issues on the K2700. What made you switch to Kurzweil?

My main gigging board was a Yamaha Motif XF8 (predecessor to the Montage). When I started college, it was too bulky to cart around and squeeze into a dorm room. I bought a used Kurzweil PC3 but it ended up having some issues that made it unusable within several months of starting the first semester. Following that, I attempted to build a rack rig + 88-key controller combination as my keys setup for college, but had difficulty finding a midi controller that was capable of doing what I needed. The only two options were the Viscount K4/K4EX (which is discontinued) or a Kurzweil PC4 (the Forte was out of budget, and I wanted knobs). I got the PC4, only to realize it sounded better than my rack rig on its own. So I sold most of the rack over time and made the PC4 my main keyboard - I have since added a MODX7 to complement it with the Yamaha pads and so forth that I like. You can read more about the controller search in this thread:

 

For me, Kurzweil's greatest strength is the boatload of midi capabilities and high-quality orchestral sounds. They alone have the chord triggering feature in hardware too - extremely useful but under-utilized. I am not a fan of their acoustic pianos live - recorded they are fine and sound great in headphones. That was an odd side effect of the pandemic - there were no gigs and I lived in a dorm, so I only heard the PC4 through headphones for the first year and a half or so. Of course, that sound didn't translate the same way to a set of good PA speakers once gigs started back up, and I was disappointed. But that really was just a personal taste piece with acoustic pianos.

 

I don't recommend switching to a Montage for your usage - I find the orchestral sounds a downgrade (they're good, just not quite as good as Kurzweil IMO, at least for strings). It's also not the strongest when it comes to midi - especially if you want to assign sounds to certain midi channels. Seamless switching is nice but should not be the sole determining factor. Also it's a heavy, huge beast!

 

[UnderGroundGr]

I have K2661, i used to play live shows and changed setups with complex splits and layers and never had problem with seamless switching(without made custom kdfx studios) EXCEPT kb3 mode(people from Kurzweil had said to me that that kb3 is a different engine so when you choose a patch, there is a slight delay...

Kurzweil had this feature since K2000...Oasys was the first synth from the other companies to achieved this feature. Nowadays if the other has surpass Kurzweil, that is another story...🙂

[rickzjamm]

I have the Forte 7 that I replaced my mighty Korg Kronos 2 with. The Forte's smaller size (fits perfectly in the Gator 61 key case), weight & authentic sounds are just what I needed for the two cover bands I play with. Like any board you need to tweak & massage some sounds to taste but overall I'm loving it actually more than the Kronos. David Weiser sounds add to the gumbo brilliantly & there are plenty of tutorials to assist. 

[ABECK]

 

On 5/29/2023 at 7:16 AM, Bill W said:

Yeah, I was going to say Dave Weiser is the authority on Kurzweil stuff.

 

Kurzweil doesn't exactly support seamless switching between sounds and I don't think they claim to. It seems to work well enough with individual programs, but not in multis and not at all if you use the KB3 engine. AFAIK, only the Korg Kronos, Korg Nautilus, a couple of the Roland Fantoms, Yamaha Montage, and some Nords support that (and if you use the Fantom's organ engine, all bets are off). 

I tested on my K2700 and can confirm switching from multi to multi or program to mult will cause a quick dropout.  Switching from program to program should be seamless and "patch remain" should work fine.  I haven't been able to replicate stuck notes though.  Are you using a lot of mults, or could you get away with using just programs and QA banks?

 

[BKZ3]

18 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

For me, Kurzweil's greatest strength is the boatload of midi capabilities and high-quality orchestral sounds

@Mighty Motif Max, I have been very impressed with their orchestral stuff. It's interesting what you said about their acoustic pianos; in the context of the two theatre shows I've played, they sound OK, but I also haven't heard Yamaha's stuff live. (Other than their grand pianos.) Incidentally, the Roland Fantom and Korg Nautilus pianos sound less impressive on YouTube.

 

7 hours ago, UnderGroundGr said:

EXCEPT kb3 mode(people from Kurzweil had said to me that that kb3 is a different engine so when you choose a patch, there is a slight delay...

@UnderGroundGr, I haven't had to use KB3 programs for this show, but that may come up in the next one...

 

1 hour ago, ABECK said:

Are you using a lot of mults, or could you get away with using just programs and QA banks?

@ABECK, I'm using a ton of multis. Right now, I have ~800 multi/patch changes, and some of them are duplicates, so they are obviously using the same programs. It's easier to use multis and keep moving forward sequentially with patch changes. Even in the same song, if there are duplicate multis, they're spaced out far enough to warrant a copy. There might be a few songs that I could get away with QA banks, especially since a portion of my multis have only two layers, but again, it's just (seemingly) easier to use my current method. Our first show after the weekend is tonight, so I'll be able to test out the idea that @Delaware Dave mentioned about stuck notes. I wish I could consistently duplicate the issue, too.

[ABECK]

Good luck.  Let us know how it goes.

 

[voxpops]

20 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

I am not a fan of their acoustic pianos live - recorded they are fine and sound great in headphones. That was an odd side effect of the pandemic - there were no gigs and I lived in a dorm, so I only heard the PC4 through headphones for the first year and a half or so. Of course, that sound didn't translate the same way to a set of good PA speakers once gigs started back up, and I was disappointed. But that really was just a personal taste piece with acoustic pianos

 

I find this to be the case with my SP6 too, although stereo reproduction helps live (I use EV ZX1As and they're probably about as good as I can expect). It's the versatility and ease of control that keeps me with Kurzweil - and at least the pianos aren't thin.

 

On the subject of patch changing, I find that I use multis almost exclusively - including for single sounds - as it makes stepping through during performances so much easier than going back and forth with programs. As a result I have to work around the dropout glitch where possible when changing multis. On some patches I've been able to significantly reduce, and in one or two cases eliminate, the glitch via careful tailoring of FX in adjacent multis. Trouble is, I don't really know how I managed to solve the problem on certain multis, but not on others. That led to me use zone switching within multis that have free parts available, for seamless and instantaneous changes.

[BKZ3]

I just tried replicating the stuck-note issue with a practice unit I was able to take home. The GIF is how I was able to replicate it: no holding down of the sustain pedal or held notes. At home, if I hit it once, it does nothing; if I go back a multi and do this again, it sticks. IRL, it usually happens without me going back at all. This was with the Dyn French Horns program -- it also happened with the Bass Clar/Clar/Fl program. Obviously, the GIF is just an example, but similar motion in practice triggers it. This is too subtle a movement to make a consistent change in performance. 🫠 This unit is separate from the one I play on, so it seems to be a K2700 issue period. I looked through all of the settings, but I couldn't narrow down what it could be. It could be any parameter, as far as I know.

[voxpops]

49 minutes ago, BKZ3 said:

I just tried replicating the stuck-note issue with a practice unit I was able to take home. The GIF is how I was able to replicate it: no holding down of the sustain pedal or held notes. At home, if I hit it once, it does nothing; if I go back a multi and do this again, it sticks. IRL, it usually happens without me going back at all. This was with the Dyn French Horns program -- it also happened with the Bass Clar/Clar/Fl program. Obviously, the GIF is just an example, but similar motion in practice triggers it. This is too subtle a movement to make a consistent change in performance. 🫠 This unit is separate from the one I play on, so it seems to be a K2700 issue period. I looked through all of the settings, but I couldn't narrow down what it could be. It could be any parameter, as far as I know.

 

When I ran my test previously I'd been switching multis using the panel buttons, not a footswitch. I've just run the test again with a pedal and come up with one or two anomalies. Whether these translate to the K2700, I don't know.

 

I plugged a sustain pedal into the SP6's #2 pedal socket. Using the overrides in the Global menu (Data Inc), initially the switch pedal started sustaining everything! I restarted the piano and made sure the plug was fully seated in the socket. This time I found that while #2a worked perfectly, advancing patches one at a time, #2b would not shift programs/multis forward, despite being set to Data Inc. I have no idea whether I needed to change another setting somewhere else.

 

The only things I can think of to try would be to test out different soft switches for the Data Inc/Dec override, make sure the footswitch plug is fully inserted and the pedal is not depressed at startup, and try another pedal.

 

[BKZ3]

3 hours ago, voxpops said:

I plugged a sustain pedal into the SP6's #2 pedal socket. Using the overrides in the Global menu (Data Inc), initially the switch pedal started sustaining everything! I restarted the piano and made sure the plug was fully seated in the socket. This time I found that while #2a worked perfectly, advancing patches one at a time, #2b would not shift programs/multis forward, despite being set to Data Inc. I have no idea whether I needed to change another setting somewhere else.

 

The only things I can think of to try would be to test out different soft switches for the Data Inc/Dec override, make sure the footswitch plug is fully inserted and the pedal is not depressed at startup, and try another pedal.

That is bonkers. The pedal at home, or the pedal at work, it’s all the same unfortunately. I’ll test out the Data Inc/Dec Override. 

[voxpops]

Just seen this in the K2700 manual - seems to confirm what I experienced regarding expression pedal behavior:

 

"Important Note: Values of “None”
For factory programs, standard parameters like Expression (program volume), Sustain,
and Sostenuto are always set to None by default. If you change one of these values, either
on the PARAMS page in the Program Editor, or with a physical controller from Program
Mode (or the Program Editor,) the same value will be used for any other program you
select, if you select another program that uses a value of None for the same parameter.
These values remain set even if you don’t save the program.

This can be useful, for example, when using an expression pedal to control program
volume. By default, all factory programs have their Expression parameter set to a value of
None, and Expression (program volume) by default can be controlled by an expression
pedal plugged into the CC 1 Pedal jack. With an expression pedal plugged into the CC
1 Pedal jack, you can control the volume of any factory program, but when you select
another factory program, it will have the same volume that you set with the expression
pedal in the last program. This way, the volume of your programs will stay consistent,
and can always be changed by the expression pedal. If you want a program to have a
default volume, you must set a Value other than None for the Expression parameter.

For all parameters with a Value of None, any values set with a physical control
will not be saved when saving the program. You must set the Value column for
that parameter to something other than None in order to set and save a value.
These values will remain set until changed with a controller, or until a program is
loaded on the current MIDI channel that does not have a value of None for these
parameters."

 

However, it was also suggested earlier that entry/exit parameters might assist here as well. Having just read the following, I'd be inclined to be cautious about adjusting those for internal sounds as there may be undesirable consequences:

 

"ENTRY EXIT Soft Button
Press the ENTRY EXIT soft button to toggle between showing Pan/Volume and ExitPan/
ExitVol on the Overview page. ExitPan and ExitVol are MIDI Pan (CC 10) and MIDI
Volume (CC 7) messages that can be sent to each Zone’s MIDI channel when exiting the
current multi by selecting another Multi or Program.

ExitPan and ExitVol should typically be set to a value of “None”, which sends no message.
To select a value of None, scroll below 0 or type -1 followed by the ENTER button. Setting
ExitPan or ExitVol to 0-127 can be useful for advanced MIDI configurations and when
controlling external MIDI instruments or software. For example, an Exit Volume message
of 0 could silence an external MIDI instrument when exiting a Multi. For Zones which are
playing local programs, Exit Volume should typically be set to None to avoid unwanted
volume changes when selecting Multis."

 

Regarding overrides, the following passage was helpful to me to indicate potentially why SW2b wasn't working for patch change. If it's already set to "OFF" in multis, it won't be overridden:

 

"In Multi Edit Mode, setting a Pedal Mode to “Off” will disable the override for that Pedal
in the selected Zone. It can be useful in Multi Mode to disable the Pedal Override for some
Zones. For example, you may want to use a Pedal Override to control Sustain in all Zones of
a Multi, but disable Sustain for one Zone.

When a Pedal Switch Override is used, the pedal will behave in Multi Mode as if the
OnValue and OffValue are set to 127 and 0 respectively (this will not be shown in Multi Edit
Mode). When a Pedal Switch Override is set to Sustain, Sostenuto or Soft, the pedal will
behave in Multi Mode as if Pedal Type is set to Momentary (this will not be shown in Multi
Edit Mode). When set to Data Inc, Data Dec, Quick Acc Inc or Quick Acc Dec the pedal
will behave in Multi Mode as if Pedal Type is set to Toggle (this will not be shown in Multi
Edit Mode)."

 

Hope this helps with your menu diving @BKZ3!

 

 

 

 

 

[BKZ3]

Wow, thank you, @voxpops, for all of that info! I dug all through the manual to no avail, but eventually stumbled randomly onto the solution for my stuck note. It was conflicting MIDI assignments in different Zones. For that problem multi, I had Pedal 2a in Zone 1 assigned to Data Inc (MIDI 96), as usual, for the patch change, but for some reason Zone 3 had Pedal 2a assigned to Sostenuto (MIDI 66). After I turned that off in Zone 3, problem solved. When I programmed this show, I had to copy & paste existing Multi IDs on the work unit, and I didn't think to check Zone controls. I did when I found out about MIDI 96, but it didn't occur to me that the stuck-note problem was also a Zone control issue. What a relief!

[voxpops]

9 hours ago, BKZ3 said:

Wow, thank you, @voxpops, for all of that info! I dug all through the manual to no avail, but eventually stumbled randomly onto the solution for my stuck note. It was conflicting MIDI assignments in different Zones. For that problem multi, I had Pedal 2a in Zone 1 assigned to Data Inc (MIDI 96), as usual, for the patch change, but for some reason Zone 3 had Pedal 2a assigned to Sostenuto (MIDI 66). After I turned that off in Zone 3, problem solved. When I programmed this show, I had to copy & paste existing Multi IDs on the work unit, and I didn't think to check Zone controls. I did when I found out about MIDI 96, but it didn't occur to me that the stuck-note problem was also a Zone control issue. What a relief!

So glad you found the solution. I must admit I was surprised to find that overrides can be overridden! The potential is huge with these Kurzweil boards, but the complexity can be daunting.

 

Good luck with the show!

[analogholic]

My favorite trick to do really fast "prg changes" on the PC3 when needed, is to mute and at the same time unmute zones in a setup (Multi on later Kurzweils) with a pedal (or even with breathcontrol )

I just import the zones from that "next" setup/multi to the first one, and mute and umute those instead of switching between setups/multis.

With 16 zones, most setup/multi "prg changes" can be solved this way...No other "workstation" can do this AFAIK.

 

There is this midi CC command called "MuteZn"

 

From the manual: "Mute Zone – values above 64 will mute the zone, values below or equal to 64 will unmute the zone."

 

Also great for when you need to kind of "toggle" back and forth between two setups/multis or just change one sound in a setup/multi momentarily fast.

 

Say you have piano/strings layered for the LH and lead strings for the RH. Suddenly you have to play a brass fill with your RH and don´t have time to move your hand to a new position on the keyboard where that brass would be in another split or maybe there is not even "space" for another split, then you push the pedal and play the brass in the same position where the lead strings were....release the pedal and your lead strings are back.

 

Didn´t fiddle too much with the FX though IIRC...(was a while ago I did this) but I guess that can be solved with clever programming especially since the 2700 has double the FX resources compared to the PC3.

 

Cool thing is that you can use other midi gear as well with this same technique...you just change the zone/s to midi

 

Go Kurzweil

 

 

[BKZ3]

@analogholic That gets me thinking about how I can simplify and alter the next show. Love it. Thanks for passing your tricks on!

[analogholic]

2 hours ago, BKZ3 said:

@analogholic That gets me thinking about how I can simplify and alter the next show. Love it. Thanks for passing your tricks on!

Just tell me if you need more info regarding this..🙂

[Synthaholic]

On 5/31/2023 at 7:51 PM, BKZ3 said:

but for some reason Zone 3 had Pedal 2a assigned to Sostenuto (MIDI 66).

A lot of Programs have Pedal 2a assigned to Sostenuto. At least on my PC4-7. 

[Tom Williams]

 

2 hours ago, Synthaholic said:

A lot of Programs have Pedal 2a assigned to Sostenuto. At least on my PC4-7. 

On the PC4 (I'll bet on the K2700 too) by default, both pedals 1B and 2A are mapped to sostenuto.  That's one of the reasons I have to go into developer mode, so I can set different functions for all four switch pedals in voice mode.  I map 2A to soft, 2B to Leslie speed toggle.

[Synthaholic]

10 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

 

On the PC4 (I'll bet on the K2700 too) by default, both pedals 1B and 2A are mapped to sostenuto.  That's one of the reasons I have to go into developer mode, so I can set different functions for all four switch pedals in voice mode.  I map 2A to soft, 2B to Leslie speed toggle.

I'm afraid to go into Developer Mode. 😬 But it sure would be handy for a systemwide switch of pedal assignments. As I said over on Mastering VAST, I'm looking to pull the trigger on (I guess) the VFP2-10B double pedal, from Studiologic, to control both my rotary speed and the vocal harmony on/off of my tc helicon VoiceLive Touch 2 from the second switch pedal input of my PC4-7. It's $79, which I suppose is reasonable, although that sucker is hard to find! Only Amazon has it. Not Sweetwater or Guitar Center or any of the usual suspects. I thought I lucked out finding the Fatar version on Thomann for only $44, but it's $35 for shipping. 😆

[Willem]

@analogholic  Mute/unmute zones really guarantees the most smooth transition between patches. My question now is if you need to program multiple pedals or buttons for each zone combination? Ideally I like to advance multis with always the same  foot switch (or by hitting a key note). If I now stay in the same multi, I need to remember which button to hit that gives me the right combination. 

 

Example:

 

Sw2a pedal press: zone 1 brass RH zone 2 b3 LH

Sw2a pedal press: zone 3 strings, mute 1&2

Sw2a pedal press: zone 4 piano, mute 3

Sw2a pedal press: zone 2 b3, mute 4

 

Is it possible to program this?

 

Every time I have some rests I prefer DataInc  to a next multi, but often there is no time.

[Sean M. H.]

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread...but, as a PC4 owner I would just reiterate the importance of paying attention to the 'entry/exit' values.  As others have said, the same thing that makes these boards so great--their complexity and ability to program, well, everything--means there's more settings that can be overlooked or cause problems.  Every single contoller on these board can be configured differently for each sound, not only in terms of what it controls, but what happens to each one's MIDI value when moving from sound to sound.  When I first got my PC4, I considered it "buggy" quite frankly.  But in hindsight, I'd say 90% of the issues I've ever seen were due to my own lack of understanding and attention to detail.