True Story: Now I Totally Understand Why People Buy from Amazon

[Anderton]

I look back with fondness to the day back in 2016 when I was stranded in Boston, and needed an Apple SuperDrive...

 

"Hello, Apple store? I need a SuperDrive, do you have one in stock?"

"Yes, we do. $80.00 + tax."

"Great! Can you put one aside for Craig Anderton? I'll be there in under 20 minutes."

"Sure, no problem Craig. See you then."

"Thanks!"

 

Fast forward to 2023...

 

I needed a Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter. I know that's not the most cutting-edge tech in the world, but I figured if anyone had it locally, it would be an Apple store and besides, I'd rather give my money to them than Amazon. So I called the nearest one.

 

I wasn't connected to that Apple store, I was connected to someone in who-knows-where, with a voice connection that cut out intermittently. I asked whether the Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter was in stock at the local Apple store, but I also gave the locations of two other stores within driving distance. So if the closest store didn't have it, that was okay if one of the other ones did.

 

Then came the questions. "What's your Apple ID?" (I didn't remember, so I had to look it up.) "What's your phone number?" I gave that as well.

 

Next question: "What do you need the adapter for?" I said I had multiple uses for it. "Well, there are a lot of adapters" she said. "I know, but Apple makes only one Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter. Again, that's the one I want. I just want to know if it's available locally."

 

I said  I'd check the Apple web site for a stock number if that would help expedite things. But there isn't a stock number. The part is identified only as "Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter," which is what I had told the person on the other end of the line anyway. 

 

More questions "What computer do you own?" "Are you going to use it with that computer?" "Is the adapter for business or personal use?" (Seriously?!?) I said business, my immediate use was with a Macbook Pro to test an audio interface. "What year is the computer?"

 

I said look, I'm not calling for tech support, I know what I want, I'm not going to return it, I just want to buy one if it's in stock. So then a few minutes passed while she checked the stock situation. "Yes, the Nashville Apple store has it." 

 

Great! Thanks! Bye! But we weren't done.

 

Next thing I know, she says she needs to send me an official Sales Quote. I gave her a newer email address than my Apple ID. So she sends me this quote, and a place to click to "Complete Purchase." She said I needed to bring the quote with me so they could give me the adapter when I got to the store. 

 

At that point, I'd spent 10 minutes trying to find out if a store had a part in stock. I thanked her for her time, hung up, and decided to order from Amazon so that a) I wouldn't have to bother driving to the Apple store and find parking, b) not spend another 10 minutes adding a Thunderbolt cable to the order, and c) not having 100% confidence that the thing would actually be there. The Amazon order, along with the cable, took under 3 minutes, start to finish.

 

Now, THIS IS NOT TO BASH APPLE, because they're by no means alone with this kind of foolishness. Other companies have other, sometimes even more exciting, kinds of foolishness.  But it might help to explain why brick-and-mortar stores are having a problem compared to just going to the Amazon web site, checking a few boxes...done. Almost as easy as going to an Apple store in 2016

 

I know, I know..."kids, get off my lawn." But seriously, if you want to sell stuff and make money, why make it so effing complicated? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

And you are lucky you got a real person on the phone.

 

I've been through phone menus with tier after tier of choices, and none pertained to the question I had.

 

Whatever happened to “Big Widget Company, How may I direct your call?”

 

I know they have to pay people to answer the phone, and then the CEO might not have the money to buy that new, multi-zillion dollar yacht he/she's been looking at, or that joyride into space.

 

Every business is in the customer service business. I ditched Apple years ago due to terrible customer service. Lenovo is much, much better. I call and get a person in the USA who speaks American style English.

 

I think if companies gave their customers better service, there would be a lot more brand loyalty.

 

Notes ♫

[Anderton]

To be fair, the last time I needed tech support from Apple (the Mojave OS update bricked my laptop, which I blame on AT&T internet instead of Apple), the person on the other end of the line solved my problem and didn't get off the phone until he was sure the problem was solved. But that was four years ago, before the pandemic.

 

I believe the pandemic has reshuffled all aspects of society in a way that's not good. Society, business, and the stock market don't like uncertainty. You can't get much more of an "uncertainty slap in the face" than a pandemic where over a million people died in the US alone, 7 million worldwide, and the world economy was totally upended.  

[Notes_Norton]

That's a good point.

 

I know a couple of people who didn't make it, and one relative who will probably never get his taste and smell back.

 

A friend of mine lost two members of his band after gigging in a place where a number of anti-vaccine people hang out. One died, the other deciding not to get back into music during the COVID drought. The one who died was healthy and in his 40s, the one who quit, decided to start a family and during the COVID unemployment got a day job.

 

My friend was out of work for a long time, as nobody was hiring, and finally found a spot in a Stones tribute band. He's a good guitarist and sounds authentic. He covers the Keith parts.

 

I'm not anti-Mac. My aftermarket business writing styles for Band-in-a-Box dictates that I use a Windows machine. The StyleMaker app works better on the Win version of BiaB. Once PG Music worked out how to get the styles compatible to both PC and Mac, there was no longer a need to have both platforms.

 

Lenovo makes very dependable computers, I just retired an early 2000XP ThinkPad from the stage that just won't die. I wanted backlit keyboards for dark venues so I can get rid of the USB gooseneck light. Lenovo also provides excellent customer service. So as long as they keep the quality and service up, I'll continue to purchase from them.

 

My last Apple product was an iPad. It worked just fine, but eventually the battery's life was too degenerated. I had it for a long time and newer tech was calling. I sold it to one of those recycle places. They didn't pay much, but I felt good that it didn't end up in the landfill. I got a Galaxy and I'm just as happy with that as I was with the Apple. I haven't had a need for Samsung tech help so I can't comment on it.

 

I let the software I require dictate the OS I use. So if my situation changes, I'll go with whatever direction it takes me.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Anderton]

This isn't really about computers or Macs, I don't even bother trying to call Microsoft. It's about how in the name of "progress," matters have become unnecessarily complicated.

 

A stellar example (and no, I don't want to get into politics!) is the tax code. It's so complex that the average person can't handle it unless they only have a single job where taxes are deducted. But now, even that's going to get weird if you sell stuff on eBay or Reverb.com, because they're going to have you declare that as income. But maybe now this means you need to file a Schedule C for self-employment if you sell a significant amount of stuff. And deduct expenses "necessary to incur income." Well, you have to drive to UPS or Fed Ex, so use of your car is a legitimate expense. But do you take the standard mileage deducation, or go with actual cost of maintenance and repairs...you get the idea.

 

Or take the "efficiency" of self-checkout. The lines are just as long, if not longer, than they were with cashiers because people are slow at using the machines. And, it's easier for dishonest people to shoplift stuff by simply putting it into a bag without scanning it. Then there's the cost of buying and maintaining the machines - how many do you see that are out of order on any given day?

 

So basically, grocery stores (and others) have decided that customers aren't king, but unpaid cashiers whose visit to the store is solely about serving the store's bottom line. Sure, the companies are making more money. But what kind of damage does this "we don't give a crap about you, do our bidding" have on society? I'm not just talking about all those cashiers and baggers losing their jobs, but about a decrease in the quality of life. 

 

And what's the point of life without doing all we can to increase the quality of it for everyone?

[Old No7]

17 minutes ago, Anderton said:

Or take the "efficiency" of self-checkout..

 

Efficiency ? ? ?

 

For self-checkout, let's get to the real issue -- "equitable treatment".

 

I want the employee discount, some benefits and a Christmas Party invite! 😏

 

Old No7

[KuruPrionz]

I detest self serve checkout stands.

The local Krogers chain (Fred Meyer) has embraced them. I used one once, to see what they were like. 

Value Village only has one manned checkout station now, everything else is self serve. I love shopping thrift stores and have found some great bargains there but I'm thinking it might be time to check out other places. Goodwill has not implemented, their mission is to find jobs for those who need employment so that would be self=defeating.

Grocery Outlet and Trader Joes do not have them yet, I hope they stay the way they are. 

I'm transitioning to doing less or no shopping at places with self serve checkout. Our small city needs the jobs and the income flow. 

[Dave Bryce]

I wne through a similar experience.  Called the local number listed for my local Apple store, but was connected with "a specialist" elsewhere who - after asking me a ton of questions - assured me that the product I wanted was in stock at my local store (which was all I wanted to know when I made the call).

 

So, I drove over to the store, parked, went in...and was promptly told that they did NOT have it in stock. 😤

 

Had it ordered for next day free delivery from Amazon before I got back to my car.,

 

dB

[Anderton]

54 minutes ago, Dave Bryce said:

So, I drove over to the store, parked, went in...and was promptly told that they did NOT have it in stock. 😤

 

That probably would have happened to me. There were so many twists and turns to the buying experience I figured I'd get to the store, and they'd say "Yessir, we'll have it shipped to you ASAP."

[Thethirdapple]

Have you ever attempted to contact a human at Amazon?!?!

 

Personally I enjoy having “Amazon” not group deliveries. I figure might as well give those poor third party delivery services some of Bezo’s profit.

 

 The fruit company, at least has some poor soul answering phone call, albeit not usually a highly skilled person. One might often be surprised that the skill level or phone script does not match the product nor perception we have of said company… There are a number of reasons why items go “out of stock” in a flash, between a phone call and a visit. Worked in a 24 hour store and I can tell you that doing inventory while items are being sold is a truly bizarre form of a circus! 
 

On the sometimes bright side, broke the screen of an iPad I needed for a project, ordered a new one from the store directly and had it delivered the same day… 

 

We might want to relabel this thread “a bunch of grumpy old people” 🥸 

Pushing deeper into my 50’s and already feel my mental patience waining. Remember the days before answering machines? Calling a friend and let it ring four or five times and just call back later… Or how about a busy signal? 
 

Thanks to Amazon though, I have not been to a box store in years!!! 

 

[RABid]

When I had to change my email address a few years ago I had all kinds of issues with my Apple devices accepting that change. It was no trouble to change on Apple's web site, but doing in the devices was a mess. I spent 4 hours on the phone with 3 different levels of support. When I finally got to the top level the guy on the other end said "I'll be honest with you. The routines for changing your email/account id on iPad/iPhone do not work properly. I suggest you transfer everything that you want to save from your iPads and iPhone to your MacBook Pro, then do a reset on your other devices and start clean. That is what I did and it took four hours for someone to tell me that.

 

But that is not my Apple horror story. Years before I bought an iPod with lots of memory to hold my 1000 CD's. I bought it from PC Mall, from the salesman I always used at work to buy PC's and servers. I also bought the 1 year Apple Care warranty. A few months later while doing an OS update of the iPod it bricked. The reset routine did nothing. It was dead. I called Apple support. A very haughty person on the other end looked at my account and said "you've had this iPod over a year." I told him that I had it 5 months and had the purchase receipt to prove it. "Our records indicate that the iPod of that serial number was shipped to PC Mall 2 years ago. Our products don't sit on the shelf that long." Then he proceeded to call me a liar and hang up on me. I immediately called PC Mall and talked to the corporate rep that I had used for over 10 years. He called the person at Apple who was in charge of the PC Mall account. An hour later someone from Apple called me to let me know my replacement iPod was being overnighted to my office. Every time I looked at that iPod I would think "what if I had not been a big customer?"

[RABid]

42 minutes ago, Thethirdapple said:

Thanks to Amazon though, I have not been to a box store in years!!! 

Amazon support has always been very helpful to me. I've called them several times and their goal always seems to be "take care of long term customers." 

 

Tomorrow we are going to Costco, which is 90 miles away. I love Costco. I read that they are in the top five companies for employee happiness and customer satisfaction. I happily drive 90 miles to Costco instead of 2 miles to Walmart.

[Anderton]

2 hours ago, Thethirdapple said:

We might want to relabel this thread “a bunch of grumpy old people”

 

Well, if I was comparing the 2023 service to 1970, sure. But I'm looking at the deterioration that's happened since 2016. It's not exactly like that's when the light bulb was invented...

 

Here's a good example of a company that figured it out. They had customer service people who took 40 minutes with customers on the average chat (not phone), dealing with irate customers and giving unsatisfactory support. They had somewhere around 60% employee turnover per year. So, they got AI involved - but NOT to deal with customers. Instead, it fed the tech support humans suggested answers based on data in support logs that showed customer satisfaction. Call time went down, customers were happier, turnover fell off drastically. The bottom line was that someone who had been there for two months appeared to have the same skill level as people who had been there for six months. The question then arose of whether the people who had been there longer and had been responsible for the support logs showing customer satisfaction deserved some kind of compensation for generating the data. Interestingly, AI didn't help these people that much. It was most helpful at getting less experienced people up to speed. 

 

Not everyone has to plunge lemming-like off the cliff of "efficiency."

 

[Notes_Norton]

I'm self-employed, so Schedule C, Self Employment Tax, and 1099/1096 forms are just a part of life.

 

I have two sisters that are CPAs and have their own accountant businesses. They are very helpful, letting me know what is legal and what is not. We've been audited 3 times through the years, and came out just fine all 3 times.

 

IMHO it's best to keep good, honest books, and play by the rules. The chances of getting audited by the IRS is slim, but if you get audited, and you have cheated, the penalty can be steep.

 

We claim everything we earn, deduct everything that's legal to deduct, and pay our 15% self-employment tax in addition to our income tax.

 

The US tax codes are written by the super-rich, to benefit the super-rich, and unfortunately, I'm not one of the super-rich so I have to pay.

 

Self-checkouts are something I avoid. I want to support the cashier. She/he has a family to feed, or mortgage to pay, or car payments, or whatever.

 

The only way I'd use a self-checkout willingly is if they give me at least a 10% discount for doing that. But there are a few places, where I have no choice. I'll only go there if there is no alternative.

 

With self-checkout, phone answering robots, chatbot customer service, it seems big business is trying to eliminate employees as much as they can. My question is this. When they eliminate most of the employees, who can afford to buy their wares?

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

 

 

[Notes_Norton]

My Apple horror story.

 

I write aftermarket styles and song collections for the auto-accompaniment app, Band-in-a-Box.

 

I've done this since I had an Atari, DOS5/Windows 3.1 and Mac Classic II computers (early 1990s). Mac file data used to require Mac Header information to open the proper app. Apple used to supply the software to insert the header info in their files.

 

Since I write software files (styles and songs) on the PC and transfer it to the Mac, I paid a hefty yearly developer's fee to Apple for pro tech support.

 

Things went fine for a few years, then came big changes. I needed a new Mac, and called tech help who set me up with pro sales. The gal convinced me that I needed an eMac, not a laptop. So I bought the eMac. They said BiaB would not run on a laptop, I found out later that it runs just fine on a laptop. They lied for bigger profit? Or was it an honest mistake? Remember, I paid big bucks for developer tech help.

 

The new eMac didn't include the app I was using for the file header info, as it was upgrade or die time, so I called my pricey pro help line. In the end, they told me they couldn't help because Band-in-a-Box was not an Apple program. What? The software to add the header info was previously an Apple product. Tech said they discontinued that when they went to PowerPC chips.

 

I went to a forum and some other user suggested a shareware app that did the trick. Tech help was zero help, another user saved the day.

 

I had the eMac less than a month and Apple switched CPU chips to Intel, rendering the eMac a dinosaur. A couple of thousand dollars wasted in about 20 days. The pro tech help and sales person should have told me to wait a month, as the CPU was being changed and it was almost upgrade or die time.

 

I chose die. I used the shareware app (it only cost $10) until Apple dropped the header info and made their files compatible. If the Internet didn't happen, they probably would still have system exclusive files.

 

If Apple had played fair with me, I'd probably still have a Mac and a PC on my desk. But that was two strikes. Hit me once, shame on you. Hit me twice, shame on me.

 

That's my Apple horror story. I could be one in a million, and I'm sure there are other companies that would do the same, but if I don't get good customer service, I get very shy about buying again.

 

In both my businesses, Norton Music and The Sophisticats, I give good customer service. That might be one reason why I have so many repeat customers.

 

If you have a problem with by aftermarket BiaB software, I'll make sure it works. And our duo has never missed a gig, we make our gigging decisions by putting ourselves in the shoes of the person who hired us, and we even skip our breaks if needed to keep the audience there and happy.

 

Every business is in the customer service business.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[KuruPrionz]

The shock mount for my Aston Element microphone is thin, fragile plastic. It broke. Aston sent me a new on via DHL Express. 

My condo is impossible to find without directions. I am happy to provide those directions and they are easy to follow. 

But...

DHL is impossible to contact any sort of actual human and the robots who answer the phone are imbeciles who cannot take actual phone calls from actual humans.

They will happily redirect your call to another useless place where nothing can be done. There are no options available that fit my scenario. 

Obviously, they do not care about me or others in similar situations. 

 

I said "representative" and the robot said "you would like to speak to a representative?" and connected me with another robot who only offered more completely useless options. I can authorize them to leave the package without a signature but who knows where they will leave it. 

I'm going to pass on that for today in the hope that the local service will text me regarding delivery tomorrow. 

 

I will never use DHL to deliver anything. Just sayin'. 

[Anderton]

2 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

I will never use DHL to deliver anything. Just sayin'. 

 

Sorry, Kuru, but you're all wrong about DHL. Here's how to get the most out of it:

 

1. Insure a package for a lot of money.

2. Send it...well, basically anywhere.

3. Wait until you get the notice saying they've lost it.

4. Cash in the insurance.

[KuruPrionz]

28 minutes ago, Anderton said:

 

Sorry, Kuru, but you're all wrong about DHL. Here's how to get the most out of it:

 

1. Insure a package for a lot of money.

2. Send it...well, basically anywhere.

3. Wait until you get the notice saying they've lost it.

4. Cash in the insurance.

Gotcha!!!

I kept bouncing around on all of their pointless webpages and following links and stumbled on "Contact" in small red letters on one page.

I went there and after sifting through all the preset robotic solutions to problems I don't have, I found a link to what is supposed to be an actual higher up human entity. 

I told them the truth in my usual "nicest guy that ever burned you to ashes" demeanor. 

The package was already out on delivery, supposedly between 5:30 and 9pm. 

It was at my doorstep at 2:30. Coincidence? Dunno, don't care. They can go back to pounding sand... 

[Notes_Norton]

I have had similar experiences with DHL.

 

Thanks for the tip Craig. I think I can make some money here.

 

 

Notes ♫

[ProfD]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:49 PM, Notes_Norton said:

With self-checkout, phone answering robots, chatbot customer service, it seems big business is trying to eliminate employees as much as they can. My question is this. When they eliminate most of the employees, who can afford to buy their wares?

Rich folks and the handful of people who actually work and their beneficiaries.😎

[Rod S]

I'm in the US about 2-3x a year for the last several years and frequently have stuff delivered to hotels (and even more times when relatives go).  The only time I had an issue with Amazon, it was my 100% my fault, and they fixed it right away  - through the chat - and were extremely helpful.   This was pre-pandemic.   Since I usually don't have much time to juggle errors (another store took 8 days to deliver a 1-2 day order - which they charged me for), I usually order from amazon.  

 

Speaking of Apple, service here in Brazil is horrendous (and I lived in a large city with the flagship store).  It's actually a breath of fresh air when I go to stores in the US or Europe.    It's impossible to get any kind of reasonable technical questions answered, they can't confirm what they have in stock, and are just generally clueless.