Adam Burgess Posted April 12, 2023 Author Share Posted April 12, 2023 Just now, TommyRude said: My head exploded when I first looked at your original post. Then, thinking - is this a normal script for such a show? Is it simply a sequential arrangement of sound effects that need to be triggered throughout the show? Or do things actually need to be "played"? If purely sequential-triggers, I might just arrange/number them left to right up the board, but I'm sure I'm missing 100's of things about how this all works. Whatever the case, good luck! It's all played "as you see it on the score". So a Middle C could well be a cymbal at one moment. A bottom Bb maybe a chord with a load of French Horns in a totally different key. The left hand might be playing stupid high strings octaves. Sometimes it's the same Oboe sound at concert pitch, then the next verse is the same Oboe figure, but played an octave up and sounding an octave down. It's f***ing stupid haha! I will find out next few days when they send me file! It definitely blurs the lines between being a player and a button pusher! Some mad patch changes a quaver apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Burgess Posted April 12, 2023 Author Share Posted April 12, 2023 There are 2x actual Percussion players.| And, I'm sure lots of players without a bit to do at this point? The are quite capable of playing the Triangle, I'm sure… I honestly think this is just absolute laziness on part of the arrangers. Too much copy and paste filling bars in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyRude Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Adam Burgess said: The are quite capable of playing the Triangle, I'm sure… I'll play brass, but I draw the line at Triangle. No g**d*** way I'm playing Triangle. Cowbell yes, Triangle no. Quote Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands Tommy Rude Soundcloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfields Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 Tempted now to snuggle a pirated copy of the keyboard 2 part into Spamalot just to see if the player misses any triangle hits.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, TommyRude said: I'll play brass, but I draw the line at Triangle. No g**d*** way I'm playing Triangle. Cowbell yes, Triangle no. See this is where you went wrong. Doritos just did a whole marketing campaign around Jack Harlow switching from rapping to triangle. It could've been you!!! Fame, fortune, unlimited flavoured corn chips, ya threw it all down the drain! Anyway, yeah, uh, commiseration, Adam. Stay strong through this trying time. Quote Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobadohshe Posted April 12, 2023 Share Posted April 12, 2023 OMG. I kept scrolling and there was more and more. It looks fun though. Quote Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Burgess Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 In further news on the all of a sudden Musical Theatre influx…! Was hired to play bass for a Little Shop week end of this month. Bit easier than Spamalot! Had a play through the new arrangement with a random recording on YouTube and thought (stupidly): "Ah, might as well play LH bass on keys and put the Reeds and Horns in!" So spent today re-arranging a little, and working out some one finger chords to play the blowy instruments' tricky voicings. Probs gonna use MODO Bass from IK and leave that the same all the way thru. I quite like it. And, the articulations aren't too hard to get right live. As for the brass and flutes etc… Tiny Arturia 61 and the laptop only? Tiny Arturia 61 and the laptop with an Integra for others? Kronos for horns etc. and laptop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 It's been fun and quite educational to follow this thread. I tossed the comment posted earlier, due to some potential confusion. Other than a few years of improv comedy piano accompanying, my theatrical experience is minimal. And the roadmaps shown here present quite a journey. Suspect I'd enjoy concocting all that's involved though. I did dig around for info on Mainstage rentals, quite an industry unto itself now. In teaching, I've used various parts of Logic when explaining programming (synth editing, multi-instrument zoning/combinations), but am getting an idea that Mainstage may work better for that. Quote 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Burgess Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 1 hour ago, allan_evett said: It's been fun and quite educational to follow this thread. I tossed the comment posted earlier, due to some potential confusion. Other than a few years of improv comedy piano accompanying, my theatrical experience is minimal. And the roadmaps shown here present quite a journey. Suspect I'd enjoy concocting all that's involved though. I did dig around for info on Mainstage rentals, quite an industry unto itself now. In teaching, I've used various parts of Logic when explaining programming (synth editing, multi-instrument zoning/combinations), but am getting an idea that Mainstage may work better for that. Back home in the UK, I'd do all the vocal rehearsals, parts, etc etc. Playing keys 2 is a total eye opener. I'd much rather play rhythm and wave my hands about a bit 😛 To be honest, I hate MainStage! It's a brilliant idea and quick to program! Just not very well done. There are so many non Apple-like things about it. The layout section is dreadful. It's buggy as hell. But, it usually works - and I get it has to pull together plug-ins from loads of different people. We shall see what the Concert is like for Spamalot. For Little Shop - it's quite easy, so may just do the Kronos. Maybe it's better if a computer is totally dedicated to a show, and locked down to it, I guess it works. But, then - there are many Kurzweils and Kronoses doing the same thing the world over. If I had the time and the recompense - I'd program a load of shows for the Kronos and Roland stuff. The Integra is perfect for this but a ball-ache with programming time! Everything is a balance! You have to be good - it's a job and no point not being ready. When live - failure isn't really an option when ticket prices are involved. A bar gig when people wander in and get free tunes… I'm not saying I don't try; but I'm less prepared, for sure. Your last gig is always a first audition for something. Is it worth taking a few days transcribing everything in a readable format just for one week to make it playable? Is my bass clarinet sound good enough? How far do ya go? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluMunk Posted April 14, 2023 Share Posted April 14, 2023 Heh. This is my “bread and butter.” Yes, contemporary shows often utilize keys in a way that has less to do with orchestrating for the instrument, and more to do with foisting arbitrary parts onto the keys books in order to cut down on players and/or to allow orchestrators to score for whatever they want because if you can sample it, keys can play it. Even K1 books are often full of quick/tricky patch changes, which also require context switching as far has how one appropriately plays a patch to sound idiomatic for the instrument. Heck, some things you can’t reasonably play on the keys, and they’ll just get programmed/mapped (single-press harp glisses and arps being one of the most common). I’m currently playing K1 for a production of Shrek. There are a few songs where I get to play through as a basic piano or hammond sound, but most of the time there’s little sense of musical coherency in a given song… string pads for two bars, piano runs the next, and horn stabs the next. It’s fun, but sometimes hard to get musical satisfaction out of books like that. I used to do my own programming, but lately the theater I do the most work for has been springing for rentals of programming for Mainstage (I bought a mac laptop specifically for this purpose). Some of the complicated articulations, afore-mentioned unplayable harp parts, and unique instruments make rolling your own a daunting and time-consuming task, even if you like that sort of thing. And, with important sfx often being sampled and intended to be triggered at rhythmically appropriate moments by keyboard players, there’s often a high level of sound design and sampling skill that is necessary to make the parts complete. Paying a few hundred bucks to rent someone else’s work is often the way to go. Like Adam, I’ve also got a gig coming up playing bass for a production of Little Shop, and I’m looking forward to playing one instrument on a set of stylistically coherent music. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Burgess Posted April 14, 2023 Author Share Posted April 14, 2023 38 minutes ago, BluMunk said: It’s fun, but sometimes hard to get musical satisfaction out of books like that. I used to do my own programming, but lately the theater I do the most work for has been springing for rentals of programming for Mainstage (I bought a mac laptop specifically for this purpose). Some of the complicated articulations, afore-mentioned unplayable harp parts, and unique instruments make rolling your own a daunting and time-consuming task, even if you like that sort of thing. And, with important sfx often being sampled and intended to be triggered at rhythmically appropriate moments by keyboard players, there’s often a high level of sound design and sampling skill that is necessary to make the parts complete. 1000% 😛 I remember the days I'd do reductions for a 7 piece combo for musicals from an original 18 piece score and making it sound big. Love re-scoring stuff. Always a laugh watching Keys 2 on Xylophone and LH Bass. Now, just 'to keep it live', it's Keys 2, with a Xylophone, and a cello on the top half of ya left hand with a few horns on what ever fingers you have left playing an octave down. At regional, PAC, university, etc level - I'm not doing Broadway or West End, but depped for a few tours here and there - the sound engineers (esp. when English isn't their first language and they don't score read…), don't always notice what's going on. We complain here all the time about patch levels - when you're doing as @BluMunk says - a million changes in a few bars… what chance? Again, how far do you go? There is very little musical satisfaction about playing a piece like that 😞 But, it's fun to play and a great exercise in concentration. Anyway - Little Shop is easy. Gonna try and play as much as I can with 2 fingers - don't think I've ever played horns and bass at the same time! Next week's 'job while sitting in a quiet bar' is doing a few playable, but recognisable arrangements for a production of a "Yensid" musical (set in Arabia, strangely) for a high school combo. Sent them a sample arrangement and they're happy, so all good. Never done as much MT as this since being back in the UK 12 or yrs ago. I do enjoy most of it! Thanks, everyone for taking part, and listening to my little thread. Appreciate it 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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