Why didn't someone design this gigging keyboard?

[aronnelson]

I always wondered why someone didn't design a keyboard that was light, meant to be a second keyboard, and was filled with the best secondary sounds needed for a gigging keyboard player. Yes, I know it's not really needed now... but....

 

1: Great horn/instrument sounds

2: Fantastic strings

3: Organ etc.....

4: Lead Synth

 

I'm making my own now with my Mac mini, but I always wanted something like this. Was the concept ever tried?

[TommyRude]

They did.

 

[Tom Williams]

Kurzweil PC4-7 checks all those boxes.  Best strings in the business.  For gigging, the organ is quite sufficient.  Brasses are excellent.  Most woodwinds, perhaps excluding sax, are quite good.   Lead synth can run on ROMpler, VA, and FM engines -- simultaneously.  76 keys, channel aftertouch.  Less than 20 pounds (9 kg) weight.

[brenner13]

Have been looking to replace my VR09 for over a decade, but it does everything OP requires, and does it so well, the little beast still makes it to nearly every gig.

[aronnelson]

4 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

Kurzweil PC4-7 checks all those boxes.  Best strings in the business.  For gigging, the organ is quite sufficient.  Brasses are excellent.  Most woodwinds, perhaps excluding sax, are quite good.   Lead synth can run on ROMpler, VA, and FM engines -- simultaneously.  76 keys, channel aftertouch.  Less than 20 pounds (9 kg) weight.

Can it do a convincing horn section? I just have not heard a single keyboard do it. But you are right, the Kurzweil's are pretty darn good.  

[AnotherScott]

10 hours ago, aronnelson said:

1: Great horn/instrument sounds

2: Fantastic strings

3: Organ etc.....

4: Lead Synth

 

"Great" and "fantastic" are subjective to some extent; and you didn't say anything about organ and lead synth, but I'm going to assume you'd like at least some amount of real-time control for these things. So from that perspective, in terms of general strengths...

 

... How does your Korg Kronos not fit your bill? Is even the 61 too heavy? (These days there's the lighter Nautilus,  but you lose controls, esp. real-time hard-slider drawbar control.)

 

... I'd say Roland pretty much has just what you want in the Fantom 6/7 (too heavy?), and comes awfully close in the Fantom-06/07 (missing hard 9th drawbar slider). They also come pretty close in the VR-09/VR-730 (external editor required for most synth editing, and the strings/horns stuff is more limited in scope and not as strong in quality as the Fantoms' SuperNATURAL or much of Yamaha/Kurzweil/Korg). 

 

... Kurzweil has pretty much what you want in PC4-7, though answering your question, the horns may be a little light on the "pop" oriented articulations compared to some others. Synth editing can be a challenge.

 

Those three above have "above average" organ, but you can quibble here.

 

... Yamaha has nothing with "great lead synth" IF you define that as having real/virtual analog behavior... which isn't to say you can't get some perfectly good lead synth sounds out of them, so I wouldn't rule them out (and if your lead synth ideas lean toward FM, so much the better).  MODX 6/7 has widest range of sounds, but is limited in full drawbar organ implementation and real-time controls in general. YC61 has their best organ, but a relatively limited range of sounds in your other categories and almost no synthy editing. The new CK61 has an "in between" organ implementation and an "in-between" range of sounds in your other categories (though also the only one of the three without real FM synth sounds, which as I said can also be a good source for additional options in your "lead synth" category). So I guess there's no single model from Yamaha that addresses all four of your categories as well as the best of the previously mentioned models... but how close it can come also depends on where you draw the "too heavy" line (i.e. if one or more of these Yamahas may seem more competitive if you're going to rule out Kronos/Nautilus and the full Fantom).

 

I think that would be your short list. Nord has nothing with top-tier strings/horns. From Hammond, SK Pro comes closest, but would still be among the weakest of the bunch for "Great horn" and "Fantastic strings." I don't see anything from Casio, Kawai, or Dexibell quite making the cut either, for one reason or another.

 

[16251]

The design feature IMHO that is not being exploited enough is having a flattop, so you can have a multikey set up without the need for a separate stand (or no stand if the it has its own legs.) The Viscount Legend would be at the top of my list if I had any need to play multikeys. 

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, 16251 said:

The design feature IMHO that is not being exploited enough is having a flattop, so you can have a multikey set up without the need for a separate stand (or no stand if the it has its own legs.) The Viscount Legend would be at the top of my list if I had any need to play multikeys. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[aronnelson]

I'm probably not familiar enough. I haven't heard any "synth" had a great horn section sound. My Kronos is great but I guess I was thinking it would only have to be 49 keys and light. Something like a Korg Kross with top notch sounds??? 

 

My Kross is pretty good but the keybed is bad - I guess the sounds are ok. Paid for it with one gig so.... why am I complaining! LOL

[ProfD]

17 hours ago, aronnelson said:

I always wondered why someone didn't design a keyboard that was light, meant to be a second keyboard, and was filled with the best secondary sounds needed for a gigging keyboard player. 

The Yamaha MX series could fit that bill.

 

The *best* sound(s) is subjective for any KB because it depends on who's playing it. 😎

[AnotherScott]

30 minutes ago, aronnelson said:

I'm probably not familiar enough. I haven't heard any "synth" had a great horn section sound. My Kronos is great but I guess I was thinking it would only have to be 49 keys and light. Something like a Korg Kross with top notch sounds??? 

 

My Kross is pretty good but the keybed is bad - I guess the sounds are ok. Paid for it with one gig so.... why am I complaining! LOL

 

The Yamaha MX49 would probably be the only possible 49 option. Better action than Kross. I think most of the sounds you asked about are equal or better on the Yamaha compared to the Kross, though generally not as strong as in the higher end boards I mentioned earlier.

 

If you can stick with something closer to the 61-key Kross's size, in terms of the sounds you asked about, I'd say Roland Fantom-06 would beat Kross or MX on organs and lead synths, and very likely most of the strings and horn stuff as well.

[Shamanzarek]

I think the Casio XW-P1 came close. With some improvements it could have been a Nord killer. Also Casio's WK-3XXX series from the 2000s could have been a great do-it-all instrument with some upgrades. Its organ section has capabilities that no other keyboard has yet to come close to at any price. I don't know if these capabilities were an intentional design decision or was just simpler to implement the way they did. It seems Casio often doesn't realize what they have and how to take it to a professional level.

[ludo]

Korg Vox continental 61 ?

 

[aronnelson]

On 4/4/2023 at 9:38 AM, AnotherScott said:

 

The Yamaha MX49 would probably be the only possible 49 option. Better action than Kross. I think most of the sounds you asked about are equal or better on the Yamaha compared to the Kross, though generally not as strong as in the higher end boards I mentioned earlier.

 

I was considering the Yamaha but everywhere I went some of the keys were broken and the action was similar - both cheap. I do like Yamaha keyboards but I wish the brass sections were better. They know how create instruments that are not playing the same samples over and over again, but I guess it's $ to do that. 

I'm basically doing it myself with the Mac mini. Will see how it goes.

[AnotherScott]

The reason I think the MX49 has a better action than the Kross is that it doesn't have the Kross issue of the key getting much stiffer to play toward the rear of the keys. But certainly neither is a high end action.

[aronnelson]

19 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

The reason I think the MX49 has a better action than the Kross is that it doesn't have the Kross issue of the key getting much stiffer to play toward the rear of the keys. But certainly neither is a high end action.

You are right there! I didn't realize the Yamaha was better in that regard. I have to say, that for quick gigs and connecting to my computer, I have used the Kross way more than I thought it would. I mainly use it for outer island gigs where Hawaiian Airlines cannot destroy it easily. They've destroyed a number of my other keyboards but Kross keeps going!