Clonewheelfans help me decide...

[ludo]

As much as i would like to buy a MAG C1 organ, i mailed them twice, at this moment they don't even respond.

I think they are to busy, it's a very small company after all.

I also know about the 6 months to 1 year delivery time.

So maybe i must change my route to Mojo61 or Legend Solo.

No Hammond SKX (Pro) for me please as i want a pure top tier organ clonewheel.

Which one ? 

Thank you guys !

[EricBarker]

Love my Mojo61, though I'm temporarily retiring it to move to Nord Stage Compact because I really need a good AP and synth without hauling around my laptop rig, and this unifies all my bands with one rig. But I'm going to miss the Mojo. It's so immediate, and the Rhodes is AMAZING. I do love the look of the MAG, particularly the switches. That said, in practice, digital switches like the Mojo allow for a lot more flexibility between instrument models. The Percussion switches double as effects and octave switches for the EPianos. Physical toggles couldn't really serve that function. No, it's not as sexy, but frankly, you adjust in about 5minutes and they still feel damned good. I would describe the Mojo as being beautifully "Utilitarian". What it trades in sexiness it gains in fluid immediacy of operation.

I will say that though it has the best keybed of all, it's just a FATAR TP-80, which is shared by a number of clone wheels including Nord Electro/Stage. However, they absolutely chose the best SPRINGS to install into the bed. They're very light and the keys play exceedingly easily. Theoretically, any board with a TP-80 you can pay $50 and get the exact same set of springs as the Mojo. It's not uncommon for NS3C and Electro owners to switch them out for Mojo springs, I may do the same.

[ludo]

7 minutes ago, EricBarker said:

 I do love the look of the MAG, particularly the switches. 

Thank you Eric.

I wonder why other manufacturers don't use those original drawbars, cv dial and switches.

To expensive ? I would gladly pay the extra...

 

[niacin]

The Mojo, like the SKpro you don't want, has extra sounds.  As Eric said the Rhodes (and the Wurli) are very good, and I like the clav too, but it's not a 'pure' clonewheel.  I think you're looking at the Viscount, or for more than twice the $$$ a Hammond XK-5. I'd still take the less than 'pure' SKpro or Mojo61 over either of them, based solely on the quality of the tonewheel emulation. But if you absolutely must have 2 sets of drawbars then you're back to the Viscount I reckon. TBH they're all top tier.

[ludo]

hi niacin, I sure can live with a few high quality extra sounds (Mojo) what i mean is i don't want the menu diving + overbusy panel (SK Pro) 

I would like to build a simple dual manual setup.

For example : Vox Continental 73 (lower) + single manual organ (upper).Done.

[niacin]

ok, I use an SKpro-61 over a Vox Continental-73, but given your preferences I second Eric on the Mojo. But it's just my opinion, ymmv.  I have a played a dual manual Legend and much prefer the lighter key action Eric mentioned on the Mojo, but you get 2 sets of drawbars on the Viscount versus one set and a workaround switch on the Mojo. Neither overdrive is as good as the Hammond SKpro or the MAG (I have an HX3). It really depends what matter most to you.

[ludo]

I'm ok with one set drawbars. I always can add a Tall & Fat pedal for the overdrive.

Is it possible to have a good electric finger/ or synthbas on the Vox ?

 

[Adan]

It sounds like you've talked yourself into a Viscount Legend.  These top tier (no pun intended) clones are all great but have some relative strengths and weaknesses.  I love the key action on the Mojo 61, as well as the sounds.  I don't like not being able to edit through the front panel, but once I found the settings I liked that became a non-issue.  Also important for me is that the Mojo allows leslie speed to change on momentary as opposed to toggle.  Not saying one is better than the other, but once I wired my reflexes for momentary I didn't want to go back to toggle.

 

I played a friend's Legend and the action is stiffer than I liked, pretty much the same as a Nord Electro.  But if I owned a Legend I would get used to it.  That's just muscle training.

[ludo]

@niacin and Adan : since you guys both own a Mojo + SK Pro. Is the SK Pro that much beter ?

The Vox  (non organ) sounds are superior to SK Pro ?

[Adan]

Mojo versus SKPro is in subjectivity land.  I prefer SKPro in all respects, but reasonable minds could disagree.  I like the multi-contact emulation of the SK and think it's not a gimmick.  Mojo doesn't have that.  All that said, I still love playing the Mojo. 

 

The EPs on the Mojo are far more inspiring than those on the SK.  If I were to compare the rhodes and wurly on the Mojo and Vox, that would be. a pretty close call.  But these are very different keyboards.  I think of the Vox as primarily a piano and epiano board.  Mojo is a clone with eps riding coattail.

[niacin]

1 hour ago, ludo said:

I'm ok with one set drawbars. I always can add a Tall & Fat pedal for the overdrive.

Is it possible to have a good electric finger/ or synthbas on the Vox ?

 

No and maybe.

 

1. Your Tall & Fat is going to be after the Leslie sim which is absolutely not the sound you're after.  There's no effects loop like you get with the MAG.

 

2. I don't know what you mean by 'good', but could agree to 'serviceable'.  I've used synth bass occasionally and the 9 LED 'drawbars' can be used to usefully tweak the amp envelope, filter cutoff and resonance, and a few other parameters.

 

[AnotherScott]

14 minutes ago, niacin said:

1. Your Tall & Fat is going to be after the Leslie sim which is absolutely not the sound you're after.  There's no effects loop like you get with the MAG.

 

So many models have been mentioned, I'm not sure exactly what the T&F would go on, but the Legend has an effects loop.

[niacin]

I think the electric pianos on the Mojo are the best available in hardware, but the Vox's are also extremely good.  I feel the Rhodes and Wurli in the Mojo have more presence/fat/warmth and are somehow more fun/addictive.  

 

The SKpro has a better overall clonewheel than the Mojo and much, much better overdrive, but for soul or funk the Mojo would be just as good.

 

I also prefer the rotary effect on a momentary switch and as Adan mentioned get that on the SKpro and the Mojo but not the Viscount.

 

The key action on the Mojo and the SKpro are both excellent.  Again as Adan noted, the Viscount is too tightly sprung, much like the Nord Electro and the previous generation of Hammond SKs (SK1/SK2).  I disagree about adjusting: yes I 'got used to' the SK1/2 action, but the action on the Skpro better facilitates what technique I have.

 

Given my particular needs my rig is usually an SKpro over a Vox Continental.  The SKpro gives me a great Hammond sound, some nice synth strings for Pink Floyd, and Rhodes bass for Doors covers.  The Vox gives me piano (I really like Upright #8 which is actually a baby grand sample), electric pianos, Vox organ for the aforementioned Doors covers, really nice Farfisa for Pink Floyd, and a great range of surprisingly good synth and orchestra section sounds that I've been able to tweak to within an inch of whatever I've needed, including much of Pink Floyd's output.

[niacin]

11 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

So many models have been mentioned, I'm not sure exactly what the T&F would go on, but the Legend has an effects loop.

 

Yeh sorry, AnotherScott is right, and I wasn't clear that I was responding to the OP's comments about the Mojo and SKpro which have a single set of drawbars and no effects loop.

[LX888]

I have current issue modules for Viscount Legend, Crumar Mojo and HX3

 

My preference is the Viscount Legend. just for pure Hammond tonewheel emulation the Viscount comes closest to me because I use slow percussion decay.

 

The percussion tapering on the Mojo is a little loud on slow decay. If you use fast decay probably not an issue.

 

I have never heard chorus vibrato from HX3 or 3.5 that gets it for me. The Mojo is pretty good in that department but the Mojo leslie sim drives me nuts! Whereas the Viscount is a little less intense.... and there is no editing via i phone insanity. No thanks. You can edit leslie sim on the Mojo module but it still drives me nuts.

 

At this point the Mojo has the best keybed but I am using an old Hammond X2 with these modules which feels pretty good too. For sound though...you can't beat what Joey D. got out of these Viscounts...he had the best clonewheel sound of anybody.

 

 

 

[CEB]

Hammond, Anything else is just a clone. 😀

 

XK-5. 

[Delaware Dave]

6 minutes ago, CEB said:

Hammond, Anything else is just a clone. 😀

 

XK-5. 

LOL, that one never gets old ....

 

If money were no object (unfortunately it is or me) I'd be looking XK5 ... Run through a tube leslie I cant tell the difference anymore.

 

 

[CEB]

I’m happy with my SKx. I got a decent deal on it. My issue with the XK5 is the same reason I stopped using my XK-33c rig. It’s heavy. The cases are as heavy as the boards.  But the XK5. Is really nice.  But post COVID there is no way I could cost justify it either. 

[Stokely]

My buddy bought a new Mojo 61 and brought it over to compare to my new sk pro.   They certainly sounded different, both good, but different (talking about the organ).  

Key-feel-wise, I'm not sure I could have told the difference blindfolded.  They were very close, and it's an action I really like (less stiff than the Electro).   I personally find the sk pro rhodes to work well for me live though I usually use the Purgatory Creek samples on my Modx.   Honestly every sound I've tried on the sk pro has been at least "fine" if not better.  It doesn't have the dynamics of the sounds on my Modx (out of the gate) but that's actually not a bad thing for live classic rock/pop IMO.

[kenheeter]

Love my Mojo 61. 

[kenheeter]

I also have the lower manual and the D9X, which give a ton of flexibility.

[kenheeter]

I have a modified Leslie 147 and a Ventilator pedal but mostly gig with the internal sim.

[The Real MC]

Life long Hammond player.

Hammond XK5.

The real key is the overdrive.  It is a tube circuit and offers many options that an overdrive pedal cannot do.  It really helps to bring out the best in Hammond tonewheel sound.

[stoken6]

For synth bass the SKpro's mono synth would be ideal.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[jeffincltnc]

Viscount Legend Live owner here.  It's the one I picked out of a lot of criteria.  There were more Mojo owners here on this forum than Viscount owners when I bought it, very early as they were available.  I have mine dialed in the way I like it and also use the T&F in the FX loop.  It's very editable in parameters, leslie sim is excellent, full sets of drawbars, leslie out if you want that.

 

Advantages as others say of Mojo are the springs on the Fatar keybed (you could feasibly make this mod to a Viscount, Nord etc. as already stated here).  The C/V on the Mojo is excellent.

 

I thought the XK5 is very nice... believe it or not, with all it does well, I didn't really like the Leslie sim on the XK5 as much, that's just me.  But I did notice when it came out that it was largely being demo'd on YouTube with a rotating leslie and not the internal sim, IIRC.

 

At the end of the day, get the one you want.   There's a wide variety of what a "real tonewheel" Hammond sounds like across age, condition, features and you can make most of these do what you want.   Your audience, your fellow musicians on the bandstage, won't really care or notice, so it's really your own happiness that matters in picking a dedicated organ clone.

 

There isn't really a place to go and try them all out side-by-side and have a bake-off so you just need to pick the one you like and either keep it or send it back for another try.

[ludo]

Thank you…all !

Please go on…

 

[EricBarker]

10 hours ago, ludo said:

Thank you Eric.

I wonder why other manufacturers don't use those original drawbars, cv dial and switches.

To expensive ? I would gladly pay the extra...

 

 

No, it has nothing to do with expense or availability, it's a practical interface choice. Once you get on a Mojo and use it for a bit, you will immediately understand. On the Mojo, the Percussion switches do double-duty as Effects toggles when the board is in EPiano mode. This makes sense because EPianos don't have percussion, and B3 rarely use tremolo/phasor like a Rhodes, so it's an intelligent use of control real-estate. Physical switches would be problematic because you'd have them set for B3, but then they'd be in the wrong place for those other options when on Rhodes. So Crumar uses some very nice, clicky buttons with an LED on them, and the LED changes to the correct state when switching keyboard models. They're suitably satisfying to press. They might not be as pretty or vintage, but they actually make a lot of sense and works great in practice. You'll adjust in 5minutes.

 

There's even a little side benefit: because they don't have an "up/down" position, you don't even have to think about where on the button to press, and you can click them VERY FAST on the fly, and you know they'll activate. I have a common performance thing that I do. My main perc settings for rock organ are ON, SOFT, FAST, THIRD. But when I really want to PUNCH IT, I hit "LOUD, SLOW" at the same time to get some fat big attacks. I often do this extremely quickly when switching into a big chorus or bridge. I can just slam those 2 buttons. If they were physical toggles, I suspect I might occasionally miss and not hit the rockers in the right side to engage. But with Buttons, I know they're always gonna be right there.

The only concession I will make is I do wish the Vib/Chorus was a knob. I'm not exactly sure why Crumar chose a step-through button. It doesn't serve any other feature. Maybe it's consistency throughout the board, since no other control uses a demented knob? No idea. I don't find it to be that much of an issue, and frankly, I'm not a big Vib user. But it's one very minor niggle.

Overall, I would stress that the Mojo is an incredibly functional instrument. Every design decision has been very carefully thought out, and has a reason. When you spend 10minutes on it, you'll realize it's a very capable and authentic B3 clone, there are no major design changes: Foldback is authentic, 1ft still drops with Percussion On (screw you, Nord!), the buttons are in the same places, it sounds great, the keybed is fantastic. There are a few interface decisions that deviate from the OG, but they're practical for an instrument that has some multi-function. B3 was clearly their first priority. None of the design decisions hinder the B3 performance or control, at worst, they're minor aesthetic changes that you'll forget about in 10 minutes.

[Mitch Towne]

I’m a MAG endorsing artist. That being said, I’ve played most everything out there and if it weren’t for the MAG, I’d still use the Mojo. The C/V of the Mojo is waaaaaayyy better than the Legend, especially the JDF version. For me, that’s the deal breaker. I can’t stand a bad CV. 

[Chris Towns]

Hi,

As a legend Live owner I am looking forward to the upcoming update at the end of April to bring it more in line with the new Viscount Soul model (they use the same sound engine). As far as I am aware, there will be an improvement in the C/V and also the Leslie sim. I'm not sure if that is worth taking into account when making a decision.

Admittedly I have owned my Legend Live for over five years, but the keyboard resistance is not as great as it originally was. Definitely easier with regular use, and you tend to adapt to it.

Whatever you get, I hope your as happy as I am with my legend Live.

Chris

 

[ludo]

3 hours ago, Mitch Towne said:

I’m a MAG endorsing artist. That being said, I’ve played most everything out there and if it weren’t for the MAG, I’d still use the Mojo. The C/V of the Mojo is waaaaaayyy better than the Legend, especially the JDF version. For me, that’s the deal breaker. I can’t stand a bad CV. 

Thank you Mitch, i'll go with a Mojo61  while i'll ordering a MAG C1. When they ever wil accept my order +6 months -12 months, i can always sell the Mojo61 for reasonable price...