Can a portable 'studio' make a profit? *Update*

[flyscots]

The reason I ask is because I have an opportunity to recieve a little bit of money from Scottish Enterprise, who help young people and small businesses, to begin operating as a mobile studio - visiting bands at rehearsals, local musicians at their homes etc and recording demos or CDs for them to sell at gigs.

 

I live in a small town in a rural county and there isn't really anywhere for anyone to record. I know of a couple of people with decent home studios but there isn't enough people willing to travel and pay to use them.

 

However, what if I was to go to the musicians where & when it suited them? Obviously I wouldn't have the advantages of an acoustically treated room but then if they wanted that they would pay more and go to a studio. My selling point would be the convenience to the musician. I already have a good laptop with SONAR, add a good portable interface and a couple of semi-decent mics and away we go, or do we?

 

Realistically I don't see this venture making money as I don't think there would be enough demand, however, it's not my money I'd be spending. With Scottish Enterprise there is no catch, I don't have to pay it back or anything - they just want to see young people trying to make a go of things.

 

What do you think? Is it worth a try?

 

Thanks

 

John Scotsman

[Philip OKeefe]

Certainly - you have nothing to lose, and you gain experience and, well FREE GEAR! If they're paying, I'd go for it.

[the stranger]

The last issue of Tape Op actually had an article about this.

[flyscots]

Thanks Phil!

 

Yeah this all started out as a way for me to stop going rusty! I want to be recording so I asked the right people, we threw ideas at each other, and they gave me a nice potential figure!

 

Free gear is beautiful isn't it! I'll be using your forum to help choose the right gear!

[Philip OKeefe]

Let us know how we can help John... oh, and BTW, I like the new Flag of St Andrew avatar.

[flyscots]

Thanks Stranger, is that the one with the John Leckie & Alan Parsons features?

 

I'm gonna have to see if they'll send me one issue. You can subscribe to it over here but it costs $45. Surely they'll send/sell me one.

[Dak Lander]

Originally posted by flyscots:

Thanks Stranger, is that the one with the John Leckie & Alan Parsons features?

 

I'm gonna have to see if they'll send me one issue. You can subscribe to it over here but it costs $45. Surely they'll send/sell me one.

John, that's a great deal. What an opportunity for you. Not only a learning experience but a great opportunity to get more customers.

 

By the way, that Tape Op issue is the one. I'll be happy to send you my copy once I'm through with it, or, if they'll allow it, I'll scan that article and email it to you.

 

I just sent them an email asking permission to scan that article and another about boundary mics that you might find interesting.

 

Another thing, you can check the back issues section for the places to order back issues. Obviously the issue in question isn't there yet. They charge $3.50 to $3.95 US plus shipping and customs paperwork charges.

[gtrmac]

Congratulations on getting access to money to invest in a mobile system. I have been dreaming about putting something like this together myself. My current dream system would consist of the following:

 

- High powered laptop with Firewire Hard Drive

- RME HDSP CardBuss/Digiface

- 2 RME Octopre-D 8 channel mic preamps

- 1 RME ADI-8 8 channel convertor

- 24 channel mic/line splitter

 

This system would allow me to make recordings of live shows professionally. I've been doing some classical recording with a laptop and an RME HDSP/Multiface and they have been coming out really nice. I'd really like to have multichannel capability to record bands live also.

[LiveMusic]

flyscots, that is cool! Congrats and I hope it goes well. Good news is nice.

[Steve LeBlanc]

I think you're young and don't really have much to lose...go for it...have some fun, gain some experience...incorporate so you can leave it if you need to.

 

I think you can make money but don't worry about that in the beginning...give it a lot of effort and keep things simple.

 

Good luck and congrats on the opportunity.

[Sylver]

Sounds like a good opportunity, John. As long as you aren't responsible to pay them back, why not.

 

As far as going moblie, you may want to consider a rack mounted, full fledged PC instead of(or in addition to, because I know you have a laptop already) the laptop. I would think that most of your gigs would have access to power. Laptops make a lot of performence trade offs for being able to run from a battery. Besides, a rack with the right road case is:

 

1. A lot more damage resistant

 

2. A lot more secure. It's easy enough to walk off with a laptop, but a 15 space rack is a lot more obvious.

 

3. A lot more flexable. You can just rack mount everything including your preamps, signal processing, power conditioning, and patch bays and save a bunch of set-up time.

 

Just a thought or two.

 

If you get this going will you hire me?

[Duddits]

Originally posted by gtrmac:

- High powered laptop with Firewire Hard Drive

- RME HDSP CardBuss/Digiface

- 2 RME Octopre-D 8 channel mic preamps

- 1 RME ADI-8 8 channel convertor

- 24 channel mic/line splitter

Or just get one of those new RME Fireface thingamajigs and it pretty much does all of this in one rack space.

[fantasticsound]

I don't remember if the Tape Op story is about him, but Nathaniel Kunkel, son of Russ Kunkel who has worked with James Taylor and other big stars for 3 decades, runs his studio this way. He calls it Studio Without Borders.

 

Nathaniel is a world class engineer who records and mixes projects on the same level as those his dad played for. In fact, several of his clients are big stars Russ worked for. (Including Taylor.)

 

He finds it conducive to many artists to find a comfortable place to record that can be temporarily treated well enough to record.

[Botch.]

Frank Zappa had a rather sophisticated mobile studio, albeit he only recorded his own shows. You might do a google search to get more info.

 

Sounds like a cool opportunity!

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Botch.:

Frank Zappa had a rather sophisticated mobile studio, albeit he only recorded his own shows. You might do a google search to get more info.

 

Sounds like a cool opportunity!

Zappa was a pioneer of sorts, but this is commonly done by big acts, taking full advantage in the advances in recording electronics.

 

BTW - I forgot to say, "Go for it!!", John!

Sounds like a great opportunity. Can I become an honorary Scotsman and join you?? Pretty please?

[LiveMusic]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

He finds it conducive to many artists to find a comfortable place to record that can be temporarily treated well enough to record.

Like what? What would they do? I assume you mean improve acoustics. How?

 

Are we talking about enough for a "live record" sound or "studio quality" sound?

[Super 8]

Well it sounds like you've got the thumbs up from this crowd.

That's cool, and it sounds like a cool opportunity. But I would caution you for this reason; how many of your ventures are they willing to sponsor?

It would be a pitty if you got the money, got the gear, and then are able to do a few jobs, but then come up with another -even better- idea for a business venture and have no more free money to back it.

 

One other thought: I would try to spend the money on things that will hold their value. Computers and software obviously are things which will lose their value very quickly. But what about mics and preamps and that sort of thing? The kinds of things and that you will ALWAYS be able to use, and could get a good portion of your investment money back IF you ever decided to sell?

 

Just a thought.

Best of luck with thatever you decide to do.

[flyscots]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone!

 

Yeah Phil the avatar is cool isn't it, I love it! You can help by sending me your mics

 

Dak, thanks very much I got the e-mail but will have to wait until tomorrow to try and get the scans (dial-up woes again.) I will buy that Tape-Op when it appears in the back issues. I wanna see the John Leckie feature, his work with Radiohead is incredible.

 

Neil - I thought you were an honorary Scotsman?

 

Stephen LeBlanc:

I think you can make money but don't worry about that in the beginning...give it a lot of effort and keep things simple.

Yeah, I think if you set out to make money you will fail because you are doing it for the wrong reasons. I was just looking for a thread title that would draw people in and be relevant!

 

gtrmac:

My current dream system would consist of the following:

 

- High powered laptop with Firewire Hard Drive

- RME HDSP CardBuss/Digiface

- 2 RME Octopre-D 8 channel mic preamps

- 1 RME ADI-8 8 channel convertor

- 24 channel mic/line splitter

 

This system would allow me to make recordings of live shows professionally.

Woah, hold on a minute. You too Jack. That all looks and sounds great, but I said a little bit of money. Like enough to get started. I wont be doing anything big with this at all. I've told you before Jack that the live scene is totally different over here, especially in this area where it is almost non existant. I doubt I'll be doing much live recording and if I do it wont be anything big. I have to be realistic.

 

My current laptop will be the centerpiece. If I spend the money on a new system I'll have no money left! I'm looking at getting a Firewire interface, like M-Audio's 410, and a few microphones - nothing special, a couple of the Chinese ones, maybe a Rode aswell as the obligatory 57s & 58s. I doubt I'll be recording any more than stereo and remember, it has to be portable.

 

Most of my recording, I predict, will be in people's houses, garages, or in whatever hall they hire or rehearse in. You'll probably tell me to aim higher, but there is no higher around here! Most of the music will be traditional Scottish folky kinda stuff - lots of acoustic guitars, a few violins and the odd accordian, aswell as bagpipes of course!

 

My aim is not to record live music, but to give people the opportunity of having something recorded in a simple and conveniant way. Maybe working with me will let them know if they are ready to go ahead and pay for a real studio. Maybe it's just some old guy who wants his life's worth of songs recorded for his family and posterity. That's the kind of business I'll get around here, nothing big, nothing special, nice and simple.

 

Everyone's right though, it should be a lot of fun and of course all experience is good experience.

 

Thanks again for the positivity

 

John

[flyscots]

Thanks Soupey

 

You must've posted while I was typing that incredibly long one above!

 

Originally posted by Super 8:

I would caution you for this reason; how many of your ventures are they willing to sponsor?

It would be a pitty if you got the money, got the gear, and then are able to do a few jobs, but then come up with another -even better- idea for a business venture and have no more free money to back it.

I'm not too worried about this but I actually think that Scottish Enterprise, or at least my contact there, would put up more cash, assuming everything was going well with the first venture of course. Plus, if I was to build upon what I'd started, hopefully I'd have access to other moneys and wouldn't have to rely on grants.

 

Don't worry, I will be spending money on mics, but do the cheaper mics really show any signs of holding their value? I wont be able to afford any Neumanns or anything like that!

[Philip OKeefe]

John, as far as mics go, and equipment in general for that matter, you should decide what you want to be able to accomplish with the system and then you can either work on a budget and try to "fit" everything into it, or go the opposite direction and specify the gear you want / need to accomplish the tasks you have specified and then determine the budget from that point.

 

You're probably not going to be able to go with all Neumanns, but there's a lot of very nice (and affordable) microphones out there.

[Philip OKeefe]

BTW, a "ballpark" idea of the amount of funding you'll have to work with will help us to help you when we get ready to do the system specs.

[fantasticsound]

I'm an honorary Scotsman?!? Really?? When does my kilt and pipes arrive?!?

 

...

 

...Wait a second... Did you guys see how John conveniently sidestepped answering my question about jumping the pond to record people with him??

 

I know when I'm not wanted!

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[flyscots]

Neil - you know you're more than welcome over here. If there's any recording getting done then that's a bonus. Don't expect to be paid though, as I said it's only a little bit of money! I can't afford you Or you Jack

 

Phil - I hadn't mentioned the figures because nothing is certain, but seeing as you asked, I'm looking at £2000. At today's exchange rate that is $3660, but seeing as I am in such a rip-off of a country we may aswell work with $2500.

 

Here's an example of what I mean by that.

 

The above mentioned M-Audio Firewire 410 lists at $499 in the US.

This should mean it lists at £272, but no, it's £379.

 

I deal with a really good little company called Making Waves who do sell it for £272, but when you compare this to Sweetwater's $399, we Brits are still getting ripped-off.

 

That £2000 is not all for audio equipment though, that'll have to pay for everything - business cards, ads, website, travel costs, phone costs, CD duplication, labelling & printing etc.

 

It's a lot to get you're head around!

[Billster]

I had an idea of using my DAT deck, a quality stereo mic preamp, and a match pair of condenser mics to record live shows for clubs and/or bands. I could then TOSlink the DAT to my computer for a little mastering and burn CD's with no loss of quality (DDD) The portable rig would fit in a 4 space rack, plus a small duffel for mics and cables, and a mic stand with a dual head clip. I see no reason why the economics are not feasable for turning a profit.

 

I understand that Steve Vai's "Alive in an Ultra World" was recorded direct to computer on the road. He used to have an interview link at his website .

 

GO FOR IT.

[flyscots]

Well not really an update, but just thought I'd let you all know that this is getting closer to becoming a reality.

 

I've been working on the business plan, which is needed to get the funding. Believe me, it is not fun! How can you possibly forecast how much you will spend and make over the next 12 months!?

 

I'm still not sure how much interest there will be in this area, but I do know there will be some non-musical work available, such as poetry recitals, book clubs and church stuff. Of course these are not ideal, but it's still audio recording and income.

 

As always, I'll keep you good people posted

 

John

[fantasticsound]

Don't forget to add money for my Cheesy-Poofs and IBC Cream Soda. I may be working for free, but I can't swing it without a stipend of Cheesy-Poofs and IBC!

[Sylver]

Originally posted by flyscots:

I can't afford you Or you Jack

 

Maybe not Neil, but I work cheap.

 

Oh, I'm supposed to do something for you, aren'y I John? Sorry, I'll get on it tonight if I can.

 

I just ordered my Studio Projects C1 (revenue from that guy I am just finishing up with), I'll let you know what I think.

 

And funny that this thread resurfaced, I might have an opportunity to remote record a Gospel choir(Yes, for money). My buddy Tony has one of these:

Fostex portable 8 track

 

, so I was thinking about asking him if I could borrow it for the gig. It can only do 2 tracks at once, so I guess I'll have to decide whether to mic or take the feed from the board.

 

Hey, this getting paid for doing music is cool. I still can't afford YOU, John, but maybe someday.

[flyscots]

Yeah Neil, whatever you want. Trouble is, you'll have to bring yer own Cheesy poofs. We don't have them here. Well we've got overly camp TV presenters, but that's not the kind of cheesy poofs you meant is it!?

 

Jack, I'm looking at the Studio Projects B3. I was thinking of the C1 but I'd like to have the option of omni & fig 8 polar patterns and the C-3 is a bit more expensive. Out of curiosity, how much are you paying for your C-1?

 

Is this the same Gospel choir you were supposed to record ages ago? Do it, and make sure you grab a few of them for future backing vocals

 

You CAN afford me Jack, it's just yer government you'd have to convince!

[where02190]

Originally posted by flyscots:

Woah, hold on a minute. You too Jack. That all looks and sounds great, but I said a little bit of money. Like enough to get started. I wont be doing anything big with this at all. I've told you before Jack that the live scene is totally different over here, especially in this area where it is almost non existant. I doubt I'll be doing much live recording and if I do it wont be anything big. I have to be realistic.

If that is the case then get an M-box and a matched pair of mics with the remaining budget and be done with it. the M-box has very nic pres and converters, you'll be hardpressed to find significantly better without spending a lot more money. With any remaining money get a mastering plugin package, Waves Gold, etc to polish the tracks for duplication.

 

Can this make money? I'm sure it can, but don't expect to become a millionaire off it, afterall you're not multltracking.

 

Another item to add to the msut have list is a good UPS. Not one of those $69 radio shackpecials, but one that actually delivers a regulated consistant power. You'll spend a few hundred on this, but it is IMHO absolutely a necessity.

 

Backup times 2. Nothing is backed up til it's backed up twice.

 

IMHO Macs and Protools are a better match, however either platform will do the job, it's really a matter of user choice.

 

Protools is still the industry standard DAW. You can give a client a protools session and they can go pretty much anywhere they want with it and have compatibility. Mastering houses regularly receive Pt 2 mix data files for mastering.

 

You can go any number of other routes with any software for Mac or PC with a 2 channel converter/pre. get the best quality converter you can afford, but also make sure the pres and mics are nto going to hinder it's quality, keep everything on the same playing field qualtiy wise, otherwise you're wasting money in some areas while saving it in others.

[djwayne]

Lots of luck. I tried doing this years ago, and found the paying gigs far and few between. I found myself pestering my musician friends for jobs, and becoming a salesman, more so than a recording technician, as keeping a constant flow of jobs was necesseary but impossible. There's only so many bands and recording opportunities, and it seems everyone and their brother has their own recording equipment, or knows someone who'll do it for a few beers. Maybe if you have all top of the line pro equipment and professional advertising, you could do better, but it will still be a lot of work, expenses, and sometimes frustration. As with any recording facility, a lot will depend on the quality of your final mixes, and word of mouth advertising. Most of the musicians I worked with, were struggling to get by, and money was always a problem for them, and paying for recordings, was not on their list of priorities. It's definitely a people business, and a lot will depend on your ability to create and maintain working relationships with many different types of musicians. I'm not saying it's impossible, but with finacial backing, you may have a chance, but it will be a lot of work to make it profitable, maybe more than it's worth. I did know one fellow that was making a few bucks occassionally recording and producing church chiors, but even he had to outlay lots of cash for equipment.

 

Lots of luck.