Talk me out of getting a Nord Stage 3 Compact...

[Nathanael_I]

I have a Nord Grand. The build quality is excellent.  The Stages are all physically well made at the same level as any of the other premium boards, I think.

[mate stubb]

Eric, you must have been playing in some holes in the wall. I've never had a key contact give me trouble on my Stage at all.

[OB Dave]

On 1/28/2023 at 2:37 AM, EricBarker said:

That’s always an option! Mojo + Nord Stage would be exquisite, and not out of the question for larger gigs, but I’m sick of hauling everything around for every rehearsal.

 

This is a good combination. I have an NS2 compact that I bought in 2011 and it continues to serve me well. Odd that somebody commented on poor build quality, that surprised me greatly. I've owned both the NS2 and an Electro 2 and both of them had very good build quality. (Crumar Mojo 61, not so much!) But, the Mojo Hammond completely blows away the Nord for sound quality and expressiveness. I usually bring both but in a pinch for smaller gigs I can get by just fine with the Nord. 

 

A huge advantage of the Nord is the large and ever-expanding sound library. There are lots of pianos to choose from, they're all free to download, and you can swap them in and out reasonably easily to audition what works for you. The keyboard action is very much a matter of taste.  I've gotten used to the NS2's action. No it's not the same as a weighted keyboard, but the stiffness of the springs makes it entirely workable to get decent dynamics out of it. And it's not a very heavy instrument. 

 

It's nice having a nice knobby keyboard. Once you have your patches set up you really don't need to do much menu-diving in realtime. The fixed split points are an oddity. I've managed to make it work, but I don't use all that many splits. On the other hand I find it really useful to have two sound engines going in two different "panels," and using an expression pedal to crossfade between them, or to control the volume of a string pad behind an acoustic piano. 

[EricBarker]

53 minutes ago, mate stubb said:

Eric, you must have been playing in some holes in the wall. I've never had a key contact give me trouble on my Stage at all.

You have no idea. They paid very well, but they were definitely in an ethically gray area. Hawaii had been "No Smoking" for over 10 years before I moved there, but this local chain of bars really wanted to keep allowing it. The owners were totally in bed with the local politicians, they paid off the liquor commission at the top of every year, $3000 fine and said, "come on back next year". They had a "No Smoking" warning posted up somewhere out of sight just so they had some immunity, but never enforced it. Our main venue was nicer, big high ceilings, good airflow, very high stage above the smoke (though we all sprained our ankles at some point from jumping off), it didn't bother me that much. But for a time we were obligated to play in one of their seedier dives because my band brought in the $$$, and that bar was suffering. That was hole, and where my board saw the most abuse. COVID cleaned house on those places though, I've been back and there's absolutely no smoking any more... thank god. Hope I don't die early.
 

 

53 minutes ago, OB Dave said:

The fixed split points are an oddity. 

I've been curious about this. I know that they have a few pre-determined split points so they can match up with LEDs (which in itself is kinda nifty). But I'm curious, does this mean that it's GLOBAL for all patches? Or can each patch use a different split point? If it's global, that is really kinda awful.

[mate stubb]

Stage split points are saved per patch.

[EricBarker]

I think I can live with that, then. Yeah, I used to get super picky about that back when I was trying to play every instrument in an orchestra with faded splits and shet. Yeah, it was fun... for me, but I've started realizing that that stuff isn't really that important to a live audience. I sometimes had a different instrument on every note so I could hit a timpani with my thumb, stuff like that. Yeah, maybe I'll miss it, but some limitations keep you from doing stupid stuff that doesn't matter too. I'll live.

[analogika]

9 hours ago, EricBarker said:

I think I can live with that, then. Yeah, I used to get super picky about that back when I was trying to play every instrument in an orchestra with faded splits and shet. Yeah, it was fun... for me, but I've started realizing that that stuff isn't really that important to a live audience. I sometimes had a different instrument on every note so I could hit a timpani with my thumb, stuff like that. Yeah, maybe I'll miss it, but some limitations keep you from doing stupid stuff that doesn't matter too. I'll live.

 

I've found that being able to adjust split points by fourths and using the fade setting (clean split, fade across a fifth, or fade across an octave) gives me enough flexibility for almost anything that isn't a one-shot sample orgy. It certainly allows some lovely layered string patches. 

[kenheeter]

That fade split is an awesome feature.

[MathOfInsects]

I was coming here to say a similar thing about the split fade. It's an elegant solution to the problem of fixed split points, and guards against that thing where you hit the wrong sound at the bottom or top of a run. Kudos to Nord for including this, I love it.

 

BUT...I should still get to pick the split point that it starts with, period. The engineers are so good at anticipating players' needs. Why have they stuck with this? Is it purely for reasons of wanting to preserve the LED above the split point, and not wanting to have to have 61/73/76/88 LEDs? Is there something about this issue that grinds against Swedish sensibilities? What is the return in preserving this weird quirk? It's not like people haven't spent a decade complaining about it, and I feel very sure there is not an equally strong lobby out there in favor of the manufacturer decided for me which keys I can split at, even if it means losing a whole octave sometimes to make certain parts work.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

I was coming here to say a similar thing about the split fade. It's an elegant solution to the problem of fixed split points, and guards against that thing where you hit the wrong sound at the bottom or top of a run. Kudos to Nord for including this, I love it.

It is very clever... and the funny thing is that, while they get kudos for it, you've long been able to do the same thing on other boards. Like so much of what Nord does, it's about what they let you do easily. With the other implementations, it's just one of a myriad of features/functions almost no one uses because so few people deep dive into the manuals or are inclined to menu dive through all the parameters to get to the deeper functions. Korg has had "Positional Cross‐fade" between zones in every workstation going back at least as far as the Tritons. Roland has had their Key Range fade parameters going back at least as far as the first Fantom.

 

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

BUT...I should still get to pick the split point that it starts with, period. The engineers are so good at anticipating players' needs. Why have they stuck with this? Is it purely for reasons of wanting to preserve the LED above the split point, and not wanting to have to have 61/73/76/88 LEDs? Is there something about this issue that grinds against Swedish sensibilities? What is the return in preserving this weird quirk? It's not like people haven't spent a decade complaining about it, and I feel very sure there is not an equally strong lobby out there in favor of the manufacturer decided for me which keys I can split at, even if it means losing a whole octave sometimes to make certain parts work.

Like probably the majority of Nord users here, I agree, it's irritating. I get the LED thing, but they can keep that feature and still allow a use to select a different split point, and then maybe the LED would blink to tell you the split is "around" there, instead of being solid to tell you that it is "exactly" there. My personal biggest pet peeve about it is that, whenever I use organ, I want my highest note to be C, but the existing split option would force it to be a B. So in order to access that C, I end up losing any functional use of the notes above the C, where I might otherwise be able to put something like a special effect sample.

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Like probably the majority of Nord users here, I agree, it's irritating. I get the LED thing, but they can keep that feature and still allow a use to select a different split point, and then maybe the LED would blink to tell you the split is "around" there, instead of being solid to tell you that it is "exactly" there. My personal biggest pet peeve about it is that, whenever I use organ, I want my highest note to be C, but the existing split option would force it to be a B. So in order to access that C, I end up losing any functional use of the notes above the C, where I might otherwise be able to put something like a special effect sample.

Honestly, it seems like a pretty simple OS-level fix. Just like you can choose the cross-fade range, just let me choose "+1, +2" etc for that split point. So if it's high B split point, let me choose "+1" and make it C instead. I don't even care if the LEDs blink. Just let me do it. 

But the fact that it would be a dead-ass simple fix makes me think there's something about it that Nord is committed to for reasons we may not know. It's certainly not selling additional boards for them, and we've all been bitching about this for a decade. So there's got to be some reason we don't know about.

[kenheeter]

I have owned 5 Stages since the original came out and I have never been annoyed by the fixed split points.  I always know at a glance where they are and I have no problem working with the points they have chosen.  If I can choose the split point I can forget exactly where it is, I like this system better. As always,   my $0.02 CAD.......

[MathOfInsects]

5 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

I have owned 5 Stages since the original came out and I have never been annoyed by the fixed split points.  I always know at a glance where they are and I have no problem working with the points they have chosen.  If I can choose the split point I can forget exactly where it is, I like this system better. As always,   my $0.02 CAD.......

Fair enough, but you could still have that be the way the board worked for you if you wanted, if they ALSO made it work for everyone else. Is there another board at this price point and market-position that treats splits this way? I don't think so.

[AnotherScott]

I'll add that, as it turns out, while I *thought* fixed split points would be a significant limitation, my organ example is the only time I really felt bit by it. In any other 2-way split, as it happens, splitting between B/C or E/F was always workable for me. If I'm doing a 3-way split, it would be much more likely to trip me up... but if I need 3-way splits, Nord wouldn't be my board of choice anyway. Doing a 3-way split where one of your sounds must be a piano or organ won't always fit the bill.

[stoken6]

18 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Doing a 3-way split where one of your sounds must be a piano or organ won't always fit the bill.

You can do a synth/organ/synth or piano/synth/piano (etc.) split on Nord, by using instruments from both panels. But once you're at this level of complexity, the fixed split points become really irritating.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[EricBarker]

The one thing I am going to really miss from my Laptop days is having 8-16 pads for triggering one-off SFX. Even 4 per song would be totally fine. Many people use it for electric drums, but let's get real, they get used a lot for sound effects. One Indie rock artist I work with likes to trigger news clips at the end of his songs, a video game band I played with had SFX from the game, "Sunday Bloody Sunday" I sampled Fiddle chops like on the record. I've sometimes used them to trigger long drones that endlessly play during a spacey section... things like that. That is one real-life performance thing that Nord is missing from the equation. Sure, you can use top and bottom keys, I did that for years before I got a controller with pads... but pads make it SO MUCH NICER!

[stoken6]

10 hours ago, EricBarker said:

The one thing I am going to really miss from my Laptop days is having 8-16 pads for triggering one-off SFX. Even 4 per song would be totally fine. Many people use it for electric drums, but let's get real, they get used a lot for sound effects. One Indie rock artist I work with likes to trigger news clips at the end of his songs, a video game band I played with had SFX from the game, "Sunday Bloody Sunday" I sampled Fiddle chops like on the record. I've sometimes used them to trigger long drones that endlessly play during a spacey section... things like that. That is one real-life performance thing that Nord is missing from the equation. Sure, you can use top and bottom keys, I did that for years before I got a controller with pads... but pads make it SO MUCH NICER!

Akai MPX8? Not perfect, but cheap and light. There's a MPX16 if you want a more biggerer version.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[jeffincltnc]

I don’t know if this is factual or not but I did read a post on a Nord user forum that shipments of the new Stage have just gone out to the UK and that the release announcement *may* be as soon as Tuesday or Wednesday this coming week.

 

I don’t know if this is true or not but it was sounding like new product might be announced before NAMM if it’s ready and NAMM is no longer in January now.

 

We shall see.

[EricBarker]

That sounds a little suspicious. People have been musing over shipments now for a few months, and they’re always regional shortages that return shortly after.

 

I have a bit of time, I’ve made myself a promise that I need to finish my taxes and mixing the album I’ve been dragging my feet on before I’m aloud to by a Nord! But I’ve also come to the conclusion that the current generation does everything I need it, and there are no make or break features that a NS4 is going to magically have.

 

At most, it might change my decision on which version to purchase. I’m leaning toward NS3C because of the low weight and physical drawbars. If they magically had an 88 that was lower weight and had physical drawbars, I might be tempted to get it.

[analogika]

6 hours ago, jeffinpghpa said:

I don’t know if this is factual or not but I did read a post on a Nord user forum that shipments of the new Stage have just gone out to the UK and that the release announcement *may* be as soon as Tuesday or Wednesday this coming week.

 

I don’t know if this is true or not but it was sounding like new product might be announced before NAMM if it’s ready and NAMM is no longer in January now.

 

We shall see.

 

Where did you read this?

[Docbop]

Nord is better at keeping new product secret than Apple. 

 

I looking forward to some new things from Nord for 2023 NAMM and Yamaha some updates to YC and CP boards.   

[EricBarker]

The problem with having NAMM so late is it’s well into the summer gig season. When I lived in Honolulu, things were steady year round. But in Alaska, spring/summer is everything

[niacin]

2 hours ago, analogika said:

 

Where did you read this?

https://www.norduserforum.com/general-nord-forum-f29/here-it-comes-stage-4-t23085.html

 

[AnotherScott]

26 minutes ago, niacin said:

https://www.norduserforum.com/general-nord-forum-f29/here-it-comes-stage-4-t23085.html

 

but unless I missed it, nothing there along the lines of "shipments of the new Stage have just gone out to the UK and that the release announcement *may* be as soon as Tuesday or Wednesday this coming week."

[niacin]

4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

but unless I missed it, nothing there along the lines of "shipments of the new Stage have just gone out to the UK and that the release announcement *may* be as soon as Tuesday or Wednesday this coming week."

yep. and it’s from December. but i’m guessing this is the source. there is an interesting post half way down that page that notes some stage4 file tags from Nord’s site, but sure of course the next model is going to be called a stage4, and we still know nothing about the timing of it.

[analogika]

15 minutes ago, niacin said:

yep. and it’s from December. but i’m guessing this is the source. there is an interesting post half way down that page that notes some stage4 file tags from Nord’s site, but sure of course the next model is going to be called a stage4, and we still know nothing about the timing of it.

I’m aware of (and a participant in) that thread, which is why I asked. 
 

Zero concrete information like what was claimed in the post I replied to. 
 

I’d like to know where that came from. 

[EricBarker]

That is actually kind of interesting. There’s a decent change the next Stage will be called the “Stage 3 EX”, so the appearance of a Stage 4 tag definitely makes you wonder. That said, it doesn’t necessarily mean anything, could be the web designers getting ahead of the game.

[analogika]

47 minutes ago, EricBarker said:

That is actually kind of interesting. There’s a decent change the next Stage will be called the “Stage 3 EX”, so the appearance of a Stage 4 tag definitely makes you wonder. That said, it doesn’t necessarily mean anything, could be the web designers getting ahead of the game.

 

The two "EX" models so far have usually come out about three years after the initial model, and about two years before the next major revision. 

The time for a Stage 3 EX would have been 2020. I imagine that exploding component costs would have made them abandon the idea of upgrading the storage capacity on these models, which has been the major "feature" in the EX versions. 

It makes complete sense, in view of the component and supply-chain realities of the past three years (has it really been THREE YEARS!?), to skip the EX release entirely and go directly for the Stage 4 — which would be due right around now, on their regular schedule. 

[niacin]

1 hour ago, EricBarker said:

That is actually kind of interesting. There’s a decent change the next Stage will be called the “Stage 3 EX”, so the appearance of a Stage 4 tag definitely makes you wonder. That said, it doesn’t necessarily mean anything, could be the web designers getting ahead of the game.

while a 3X would follow the usual sequence, if they stick to the usual new number every 6 years then we're due for a Stage 4 this year, but then COVID and supply issues may have interrupted all that, no one knows except the good people at Clavia.  The speculation seems to be based on this past pattern of releases and supply issues in various parts of the globe resulting in stores being out of stock.

[niacin]

Lol, looks like Analogika beat me to it.