New Mini and MB Pros Jan 23

[ElmerJFudd]

A - those looking for 2020 M1 models (already impressively equipped for MainStage and DAW work) are going to see a bunch of them hit the second hand market.  Yay! 
 

B - M2s at previous M1 price points. 

 

[jeffincltnc]

I just picked up a mint used 14" 2021 M1 Pro with Apple Care for 35% off the price of the new ones coming out which seems like a win.  I'm using the money I saved for a 2TB OWC external Thunderbolt drive for my Kontakt libraries with extra to spare and I think I'm good with that tradeoff for a while.  Internal SSD is still pricey on these and the Thunderbolt 3 speeds are almost just as high performing as internal SSD for almost half the price.  It looks like the I/Os are the same with the addition of 8K video (not my thing), and I think I will be fine for several years with that.

 

For musicians it would be nice if they would support the USB 3.2 2X2 for the higher speeds of the newest SanDisk and Samsung external SSDs over USB for 1/3 less than the prices of Thunderbolt but doesn't look to be coming in this generation of Mac Book Pros.

[Stokely]

I wish I could make up my mind on whether I need portability.  I guess I could keep my current 2016 MBP for that possibility (it still works fine but it does have two keys in the butterfly keyboard that don't work) and just get a mini (or studio) for home use.  I much prefer the smaller footprint and I try to keep the lid open lest it starts heating up.

[Docbop]

i'm tempted.    I really like my Macbook Air M2, but my old eyes would really like a bit more screen real estate, brightness, and definition.   Plus I can to the Apple trade-in thing.     Personal debate 14" or 16"?  I've had many Apple and PC 17" laptops and loved them but they are big. So who knows wait a few days and think it thru again. 

[Stokely]

I have old eyes as well and if I was actually going to look at the screen a lot I'd definitely go big.  I have my 16" MBP hooked to a 2k 32" monitor (definitely a price/feature sweet spot when I bought) and it basically stays closed or a bit open (as I say to help with heat).

I just checked, and I see that Native Instruments say that everything is M1 native, but not M2 native?  Huh? I figured it was Intel vs Apple Silicon, not a new port to every different silicon chip.  I'm far from a hardware expert obviously!   I have no intention of running Rosetta when I get a new machine, and I use Kontakt a lot....

[jeffincltnc]

I prefer the 14" size for gigging with Mainstage when I've tried it and I certainly find it to be plenty big in comparison to an iPad, or the screen sizes that are typical for keyboards.  (I was struggling to make out the fine print on the screen when playing a Nautilus 88 in a store recently).  At home I have a large curved monitor to work with.

[ElmerJFudd]

57 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I just checked, and I see that Native Instruments say that everything is M1 native, but not M2 native? 

M1 to M2 is like the phones going A14 to A15.  Now maybe NI hasn’t finished testing their native Apple Silicon software on all new Macs yet, but they’re going to run. That’s how I understand it at least. NI should phrase it Apple Silicon native rather than M1. 

[Lady Gaia]

21 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

M1 to M2 is like the phones going A14 to A15.  Now maybe NI hasn’t finished testing their native Apple Silicon software on all new Macs yet, but they’re going to run. That’s how I understand it at least. NI should phrase it Apple Silicon native rather than M1. 

Spot on.  Many music vendors were really short-sighted in not simply specifying "Apple Silicon" but tried to simplify things for their customers by referring to the M1 - and ended up making the conversation more complicated in short order for reasons that were 100% predictable.  At least that's better than the ones that tried to pull the wool over our eyes by using the phrase "M1 compatible" for Intel software that ran with Rosetta translation.

 

M2 is designed to be 100% backward compatible with M1.  It's not impossible to write software that won't run on the newer chip but you'd have to make some really boneheaded decisions to get there.  Likewise, it's possible to write software for M1 that would fail on M1 Pro or M1 Max but I can't think of a real-world example where it was a problem.

[o0Ampy0o]

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

I wish I could make up my mind on whether I need portability.  I guess I could keep my current 2016 MBP for that possibility (it still works fine but it does have two keys in the butterfly keyboard that don't work) and just get a mini (or studio) for home use.  I much prefer the smaller footprint and I try to keep the lid open lest it starts heating up.

 

The studio is not a quiet running machine so it may be impractical for music if you can't run it is a closet or something. 

[ElmerJFudd]

34 minutes ago, o0Ampy0o said:

 

The studio is not a quiet running machine so it may be impractical for music if you can't run it is a closet or something. 

Can you confirm from personal use?  I don’t own one, but I hear mixed comments on what makes the fan run and what doesn’t and at what volume. Some users of certain models say they hear a high pitch and swapped the one they had for another.  Apple says 15db, that’s definitely louder than a mini by about 10db. 
 

disclaimer - just curious, a studio is out of my league. at least the way I’d like to build to order. 😀

[Stokely]

Yeah, there was a giant thread on Gearspace about the loud Studio, I read a lot of it.

There appeared to be two issues:
The worst issue was a loud high pitched whine that seemed to afflict the early units (or so it seemed).
The second is that the fan runs all the time, at high load or not.   Or at the least, most of the time. Apparently this is not loud but in a quiet room it could be an issue.

The studio has extra ports I'd really like (my current laptop is festooned with dongles and adapters that want to come out all the time.)   I don't have a super quiet or treated space as it is--and only rarely record with a microphone-- so I do wonder if fan noise would even bother me.

[o0Ampy0o]

7 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Can you confirm from personal use?  I don’t own one, but I hear mixed comments on what makes the fan run and what doesn’t and at what volume. Some users of certain models say they hear a high pitch and swapped the one they had for another.  Apple says 15db, that’s definitely louder than a mini by about 10db. 
 

disclaimer - just curious, a studio is out of my league. at least the way I’d like to build to order. 😀

 

No I am going by what I have read. When they came out I wished I had waited. I had already bought an M1 Mac Mini. The power, RAM and number of ports on the basic Studio suited me much better. But reading how they were not quiet like a regular Mac Mini discouraged me. Some noise I can live with. It can be dealt with merely placing it where furniture can deflect it. Oddly, I have deteriorated hearing yet I hear some things acutely or perhaps those things would drive me crazy without the state of my hearing. I did not see anywhere with descriptions I could live with. I read reviews and looked at the specs. I did not read about it on forums.

[elsongs]

0 USB ports? For something $2K and up?

Does Apple even know what the "U" in "USB" stands for? Come on now.

[zxcvbnm098]

1 hour ago, elsongs said:

0 USB ports? For something $2K and up?

Does Apple even know what the "U" in "USB" stands for? Come on now.

I'm seeing 2 USB ports on these? 

[elsongs]

34 minutes ago, zxcvbnm098 said:

I'm seeing 2 USB ports on these? 

There are 3 Thunderbolt ports; two on the left side and one on the right. 

....But no USB ports.

[analogika]

2 minutes ago, elsongs said:

There are 3 Thunderbolt ports; two on the left side and one on the right. 

....But no USB ports.

those are literally three USB ports.  Are you confused, or am I missing some snarkiness here?

[DeltaJockey]

10 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

 

The studio is not a quiet running machine so it may be impractical for music if you can't run it is a closet or something. 

I recently bought a Studio m1 Max. No noise to bother me. The fans seem to run at the same speed no matter what temperature it sits at. And I have to put my ear to the case to even notice them. Haven't fully loaded it yet, but have worked it reasonably hard, and no fan noise problems, or heavy lifting resource issues whatsoever. I think we've reached a point where most minimum apple silicon hardware is capable of doing 95% of the music duties. I also have M1 Pro Macbooks, and again, as they are more than capable for music, there'll be no second-hand offloading for an M2 machine by me anytime soon!

[o0Ampy0o]

1 hour ago, DeltaJockey said:

I recently bought a Studio m1 Max. No noise to bother me. The fans seem to run at the same speed no matter what temperature it sits at. And I have to put my ear to the case to even notice them. Haven't fully loaded it yet, but have worked it reasonably hard, and no fan noise problems, or heavy lifting resource issues whatsoever. I think we've reached a point where most minimum apple silicon hardware is capable of doing 95% of the music duties. I also have M1 Pro Macbooks, and again, as they are more than capable for music, there'll be no second-hand offloading for an M2 machine by me anytime soon!

 

You could have an exceptionally quiet one. That you put your ear to it and say you hardly hear it and the fan is always running tells me something. I may have better hearing than you and/or you may unconsciously not be aware of noise in your environment.

 

I live in a quiet environment. There are random noises but there are not so many noises that it creates a drone of noise.

 

I used to have my computer in a different room and spot in relation to where I sat. My old Mac Mini has one fan. It was frequently idle. I could hear that single fan kick in without putting my ear up to it.

 

Apparently the studio has two? I read about it a while ago and how many didn't matter enough to remember. If it had one or ten the noise mattered. 

 

I have not noticed the fan on my M1. Maybe the fan has never kicked in or it could be quieter tech or it could be the placement. It is on top of my desk to my left and better ear while previously my old Mini was on top to my right and damaged ear yet that one I noticed.

 

There are multiple factors at play in this. I might trade my M1 in if I can listen to a Studio in the right environment. 

[The_Star_Guy]

Apple's Thunderbolt 4 sets higher minimum requirements  for certification, but the data & power protocols for USB4 and USB 3.2 are supported as subsets of this in terms of compatibility.   They share the USB-C oval-shaped port & so are for nearly all intents and purposes cross-compatible. 

 

Also if you have an Intel EVO Windows laptop you have a Thunderbolt 4 port on that as well, as that is part of the Intel EVO specification.

[The_Star_Guy]

I was planning to pull the trigger on an M2 MacBook Air later this week but after reviewing the specs and pricing for a new Mac Mini with M2 Pro chip and 4 Thunderbolt4 ports for $1299 this may hit a sweet spot that I can't ignore!

[Al Quinn]

I’m tempted. My 13” 2015 MacBook Pro struggles with video editing, has less storage than I would like, and the battery needs replacement soon. If I pull the trigger on a new one I’ll likely go with a larger than 13” screen. The portability I had in mind — using it on gigs running Gig Performer or Mainstage — when I bought the 13” MacBook Pro is no longer required. After several tries I’ve decided I’m a hardware keyboard guy and if I want anything in software I’ll use an iPad.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, The_Star_Guy said:

Apple's Thunderbolt 4 sets higher minimum requirements  for certification, but the data & power protocols for USB4 and USB 3.2 are supported as subsets of this in terms of compatibility.   They share the USB-C oval-shaped port & so are for nearly all intents and purposes compatible. 

 

Also if you have an Intel EVO Windows laptop you have a Thunderbolt 4 port on that as well, as that is part of the Intel EVO specification.

Granted they’ve made it confusing at the customer level.  Is it a Thunderbolt bolt or USB port?  “You mean I can stick either device into it and it just knows which protocol to use”?  
 

As a side note, RME recently suggested to their customers they won’t be releasing any Thunderbolt 4 interfaces.  They simply feel USB4 is adequate for audio with sufficient bandwidth for high channel counts and don’t want to have to support two standards.  It’s hard to say if others will follow their path. 

[The_Star_Guy]

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Granted they’ve made it confusing at the customer level.  Is it a Thunderbolt bolt or USB port?  “You mean I can stick either device into it and it just knows which protocol to use”?  
 

As a side note, RME recently suggested to their customers they won’t be releasing any Thunderbolt 4 interfaces.  They simply feel USB4 is adequate for audio with sufficient bandwidth for high channel counts and don’t want to have to support two standards.  It’s hard to say if others will follow their path. 

 

It is a Thunderbolt 4 port.   Since the USB 4 Port uses the same connector and all of it's protocols, power and data requirements are a directly supported subset of the Thunderbolt 4 protocols, it would also work and function correctly  for any proper USB4 device.   So yes, you can stick either device into it.   This was the best design, as the reverse is not true.  If a manufacturer built a device port that supports only USB 4 protocols it would NOT necessarily function as a true Thunderbolt 4 port (which would have greater requirements).

[ElmerJFudd]

5 minutes ago, The_Star_Guy said:

 

It is a Thunderbolt 4 port.   Since the USB 4 Port uses the same connector and all of it's protocols, power and data requirements are a directly supported subset of the Thunderbolt 4 protocols, it would also work and function correctly  for any proper USB4 device.   So yes, you can stick either device into it.   This was the best design, as the reverse is not true.  If a manufacturer built a device port that supports only USB 4 protocols it would NOT necessarily function as a true Thunderbolt 4 port (which would have greater requirements).

Yes, you and I understand this.  But it’s a new concept for many. 

[Anderton]

8 hours ago, analogika said:

those are literally three USB ports.  Are you confused, or am I missing some snarkiness here?

 

There's a lot of confusion about this. Thunderbolt ports are by definition also USB ports. But USB-based devices with USB-C connectors are not Thunderbolt-compatible, unless they have a Thunderbolt logo. Apple should have put a Thunderbolt logo by the ports, because in the strange world of consumer electronic specs, that would mean it was Thunderbolt/USB-capable.

[jejefunkyman]

I didn't know that, thanks for the explanation 😬🙏

[stoken6]

First reactions:

- The starter price on the Mini is really good...

- ... but that's only for 8GB RAM...

- ... and it's $200 to upgrade to 16GB...

- ... and why no 24GB option like on the M2 Macbook Air and Macbook Pro?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Docbop]

13 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

First reactions:

- The starter price on the Mini is really good...

- ... but that's only for 8GB RAM...

- ... and it's $200 to upgrade to 16GB...

- ... and why no 24GB option like on the M2 Macbook Air and Macbook Pro?

 

Cheers, Mike.

I just looked and 24GB RAM is an option on all of them it's $400 option.   

[stoken6]

17 minutes ago, Docbop said:

I just looked and 24GB RAM is an option on all of them it's $400 option.   

You're right: "configurable to" as opposed to a standard option. Missed it first time.

 

Still, $400?! I spent $56 (~$56+tax) to upgrade my windows desktop from 16 to 32GB!

 

(BTW I read an article about how something was $500 US and £400 UK. The author of the article wrote "I was jealous that it was cheaper in the UK". Erm, every heard of exchange rates? Funny, and makes you despair for humanity, all at the same time)

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

[DeltaJockey]

11 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

 

You could have an exceptionally quiet one. That you put your ear to it and say you hardly hear it and the fan is always running tells me something. I may have better hearing than you and/or you may unconsciously not be aware of noise in your environment.

 

 

 

Yes, maybe I am lucky with mine. I used to use a Mac mini, and besides getting intolerably hot, the fan used to be quite noisy at times. I do also live in a very quiet rural environment, and yes my ears have definitely aged, but I do find the studio fans to be quite acceptable, even quieter than my Kronos fans!

(I assume you don't own a Kronos, as by what you said, that would probably drive you crazy.