Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

New Mini and MB Pros Jan 23


Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, o0Ampy0o said:

What use can a display make of graphical information before it is processed by the GPU? Are you saying that the CPU is what moves the data between the GPU and display?

 

Of course the CPU is involved. There is no dedicated connector between a monitor and a GPU. All data, be it pixel information destinated for display or bytes to be written to storage has to be transferred at some point over data buses to their destination. All transfers are instigated, controlled and monitored by the CPU. The more data, the more CPU clock cycles are consumed in this coordination. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Just now, Ibarch said:

Of course the CPU is involved. There is no dedicated connector between a monitor and a GPU. All data, be it pixel information destinated for display or bytes to be written to storage has to be transferred at some point over data buses to their destination. All transfers are instigated, controlled and monitored by the CPU. The more data, the more CPU clock cycles are consumed in this coordination. 

The "of course" is not that obvious. It is not farfetched to think that the GPU could handle the transfer of its processed data to the display to get the purest signal out at the fastest rate. I don't know but it makes sense to me. That would free the two up. Also, you said a monitor connected to a hub. I would never connect a display to anything but a dedicated bus on the computer. Do people actually use 4k displays connected to a hub? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, o0Ampy0o said:

The "of course" is not that obvious. It is not farfetched to think that the GPU could handle the transfer of its processed data to the display to get the purest signal out at the fastest rate. I don't know but it makes sense to me. That would free the two up. Also, you said a monitor connected to a hub. I would never connect a display to anything but a dedicated bus on the computer. Do people actually use 4k displays connected to a hub? 

 

Sorry, my background of electronic engineering means that understanding that the CPU is involved in this stuff is part of the foundation on which the rest of digital systems design sits. I wasn't intending to imply that everyone should know this. As to how it actually works in detail with all the innovation that has happened in integrated chips, memory, GPU, caches etc, I'm way behind. 

 

Yes, I run my 4k ultrawide monitor from a cheap usb hub. I'm using a Windows PC but it benefits from all the Apple inventions like only 2 ports and a dongle life. Works absolutely fine. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

18 minutes ago, Ibarch said:

There is no dedicated connector between a monitor and a GPU.

The guts of a Mac Mini are designed to consolidate and compact things. I have opened up two different earlier generations of Mac Minis. I have an M1 that I do not plan to open, no point. I had a couple of the Motorola Mac Pros which I opened. I vaguely recall those having separate graphics cards I don't remember where the display connected. But on my Hackintosh, which I built, I have a graphics card with a dedicated bus that is accessible from the outside of the case. That is where the display connects to the graphics card. It isn't the motherboard. It is the circuitboard of the GPU. I have not read the details and specs and how they are in new Mac tech but the new Mac GPU's are so powerful with multiple cores and handle so many more tasks I figured this was already happening even in earlier tech given how the display connects to the GPU's circuitboard. I can understand that the CPU could be what moves the data across the circuitboard of the GPU. I can also see how it could also be done solely by the GPU if that was a better design. 

 

Connecting a 4k display through a hub just seems to be asking for trouble. I have worked with graphics and experienced problems for years before the tech caught up to the demands. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, o0Ampy0o said:

 

The guts of a Mac Mini are designed to consolidate and compact things. I have opened up two different earlier generations of Mac Minis. I have an M1 that I do not plan to open, no point. I had a couple of the Motorola Mac Pros which I opened. I vaguely recall those having separate graphics cards I don't remember where the display connected. But on my Hackintosh, which I built, I have a graphics card with a dedicated bus that is accessible from the outside of the case. That is where the display connects to the graphics card. It isn't the motherboard. It is the circuitboard of the GPU. I have not read the details and specs and how they are in new Mac tech but the new Mac GPU's are so powerful with multiple cores and handle so many more tasks I figured this was already happening even in earlier tech given how the display connects to the GPU's circuitboard. I can understand that the CPU could be what moves the data across the circuitboard of the GPU. I can also see how it could also be done solely by the GPU if that was a better design. 

 

Connecting a 4k display through a hub just seems to be asking for trouble. I have worked with graphics and experienced problems for years before the tech caught up to the demands. 

 

Some ports, like HDMI have their own connectors and dedicated connections. Modern displays use Thunderbolt or USB ports. These make use of shared buses which can also be used by other devices such as thunderbolt/USB hubs. 

 

There is no issue connecting displays via hubs, provided the hub supports the required bandwidth and speed. Some cheaper hubs do not so check the specs before buying if intending to connect monitors. Note - I'm referring to my experience on windows/Linux which will both just work. Macs have historically had more restrictions in connecting external displays. Macs in previous offices I've worked in didn't work with dual monitors for example. 

 

In my case my monitor has HDMI ports but my laptop does not. My usb hub provides the HDMI ports. Without the hub I can't use my monitor. I don't do any heavy graphics work so can't speak on that . In my routine pc use and my music, the hub works flawlessly. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 On one of my Macs it had two different connector types. In order to connect two displays I have used an adapter. That at least is one guy going through the turnstile alone.

 

In your case if that is 4k all you really are needing is a high resolution display of your activity while pumping GB of non-graphics data. The only graphics demand is for it to be 4k. That does not seem like all that much to ask for. Seems like a fairly powerful current model could do that easily in reference to your initial question. Just sharing my feelings about it. 🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is moving me closer to the precipice where my knowledge ends and my uninformed opinions take over. I may have already fallen down it. 

Time to call a halt. 

 

As per one of my previous posts, I am curious to know if anyone is actually using  external storage, large sample libraries and monitors through a hub and whether this works well. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ibarch said:

As per one of my precious posts, I am curious to know if anyone is actually using  external storage, large sample libraries and monitors through a hub and whether this works well.

On my MacBookPro I connect two ways. I have a 4TB SSD attached to the back of the monitor with a direct Thunderbolt 4 connection. I also have a Thunderbolt doc that has a 2TB SSD and a 14TB platter HD that I use for Time Machine backups. The big difference for me ... I use my laptop in my lap while in a recliner. My big complaint over the past year is that every time I move I get a bunch of "drive disconnected without being ejected" messages for the drives connected to the doc. This is why I ended up using velcro to attach my primary SSD to the back of my monitor. It uses a short Thunderbolt 4 cable and I never get that error with that drive. Note: I have not had that message this week and I am starting to wonder if Apple pushed out a fix for that problem.

This post edited for speling.

My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Assuming you haven't used a powered dock, could it be that it wasn't receiving enough power over the thunderbolt connection? When power load exceeds a threshold it powers down something. By moving one of the SSDs off the dock, the dock now has enough power to keep the other powered up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

One is GPU the other is CPU. New Macs have souped up GPU's with their own cores and dedicated video RAM. 

 

The only currently available Mac with dedicated video RAM is the intel Mac Pro tower. 

 

All of the Apple Silicon Macs have shared RAM directly on-die. 

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...