Mac Users - Which DAW Do You Use if You *Don't* Use Logic? And Why?

[Anderton]

This should be interesting...

[KuruPrionz]

I agree, and I think you already know what I use although maybe not why?

In any case, this thread will be interesting to follow at the very least.

 

I've used Mac and Windows in my employment, sometimes both and sometimes only Windows (which is the world's default).

Both are very good, learning curve is different. My focus is in getting past all the learning curves and recording my songs. 

Since I know it pretty well, I've been a Mac user for decades. In 1992 when I started learning Photoshop, it was Mac only and the college had a roomful, a Photoshop lab. I lived there for a while. 

When I wanted to start learning recording I bought an interface and MOTU Digital Performer (full version) as a package. It was Mac only at that point as well. 

I found it difficult to learn, a bit obtuse and it seemed like there were too many separate palettes and all different sizes so hard to column them. I disliked it, realized my interface was more than I wanted (original 896 8 channel Firewire interface). I bought a smaller, single rack space Mackie interface, also Firewire. The mic preamps sounded better for one thing but it came with Tracktion 2.5 or 3 or something it had been for a few years. Another full version. I found it was quick to get it up and running and start tracking. 

The coder who licensed Tracktion to Mackie bought it back and started updating it. The improvements have been substantial but the basic, easy-to-get- moving interface remains. It's been renamed as Waveform but the numbering is conisistent with Waveform 12.5 being current. I still use it and like it, I can do amazing things that I learned along the way (with many more to learn!) and I can set it up and start recording very quickly. 

 

That said, recently I downloaded the 60 day demo (generous) that Apple provides for Logic. I installed it, made one recording with 3-4 tracks and went back to Waveform. 

I might still get it and learn it little by little while moving forward with what's working for me. 

 

It's not expensive for what's on offer and I can see it as a good move if/when I get up to speed. 

[DeltaJockey]

For a time there I was using Reaper on the Mac. At that stage I hadn't yet bought Logic, and I always thought Garageband was way too lame, especially in the long ago days when I did try it. I've played around with most DAWs over the years, (most of the others back in PC days though).

Heck, my most productive days were in the early 90's using Hybrid Arts EZ Track plus on the Atari ST !

 

My overall feeling from all of this is:

 

that most DAW's have a certain level of sameness underneath when you dive deeper than their individualistic hierarchy.

It really is a matter of properly learning the one which you shine with, and sticking to it. There's no more a time and energy waster than jumping from one cut down bundle tryout to another every time you buy a new piece of hardware.

 

In the end I bought Logic Pro many years ago, and have stuck with that ever since, partly because it's a one time purchase from one Mac to the next, (or several), and at a personal level, it seems to be intuitive enough for my little brain, and rarely do I have to reference documentation to do something new with it.

 

I don't think it is a prerequisite to use Logic if you have a Mac, but I do think it is essential to find what suits you at a preference level and focus just on that.

[Paul Vnuk Jr.]

My DAW journey began back in a time when you had to have ProTools and a Mac if you wanted to be considered a "real" studio. Of course, it was through a mix of insufficient funds and youthful arrogance that I chose the DIY PC route and a slow evolution from Cakewalk (the original pre-Gibson/Sonar version) to Cool Edit Pro to Sony Vegas (and Acid) and finally to Steinberg Nuendo, which at the time was the only other DAW considered to be at a ProTools level thanks to its acceptance in the post-production world.

Fast forward to now, I am a complete and total Mac fan-boy, but I still stick with Cubase as my main DAW (after downsizing from Nuendo since I don't do post-production), mainly as I know Cubase inside and out.

 

Having said that, I did just get a copy of Logic, and one of my New Year's resolutions is to start learning it because of its Mac integration and so I can start messing with its binaural-Apple spatial audio features.

[Paul Vnuk Jr.]

As a total aside. @KuruPrionz I was a photography major in college in 1992 and remember one of the first local photography houses in my state that had a Photoshop set up (probably 90-91'sh) and I remember that the Mac to run it on, the program itself were thousands, upon thousands or dollars in 1990s money. I have been faithfully using Photoshop ever since it became widespread (maybe version 2.0 or 3.0) and it is the one program I probably know better than Cubase.

[KuruPrionz]

15 minutes ago, Paul Vnuk Jr. said:

As a total aside. @KuruPrionz I was a photography major in college in 1992 and remember one of the first local photography houses in my state that had a Photoshop set up (probably 90-91'sh) and I remember that the Mac to run it on, the program itself were thousands, upon thousands or dollars in 1990s money. I have been faithfully using Photoshop ever since it became widespread (maybe version 2.0 or 3.0) and it is the one program I probably know better than Cubase.

Great story Paul, thanks for sharing! Photoshop changed imaging forever. I worked at photo labs and in graphic design at a few corporate entities and I always got the Photoshop work because they knew I'd get it done and done well. Plus, I wasn't the fastest typist! 😇

These days I find Photoshop Elements 2021 does everything I need, photography is a hobby that I enjoy but second to music although I probably am more advanced on Photoshop than I am on my recording arts softwares. 

I got pretty good at Illustrator, Pagemaker, Quark, Freehand and Corel Draw too, that's the life of a graphics/printer guy. 

[Dave Bryce]

My start with DAWs began over 30 years ago with Dr. T’s KCS on an Atari 520 computer.  It was basically almost all numerically based, with very few graphics.  I needed to stripe SMPTE time code on my Fostex 80 8 track reel to reel and sync it to the computer with a separate box (Fostex 4050 SMPTE to MIDI synchronizer) to incorporate audio into the equation.

 

But the Atari thing faded due largely to lack of traction, and gave way to my owning a Mac (SE30), as almost every musician I knew was using one, and I wanted access to the other tools like Microsoft Word and Excel towards which many people seemed to be gravitating.  I was living in Boston at the time, so I went with a local company with what I thought was a really cool name - Mark Of The Unicorn - and their program Performer, once again based on the larger number of friends of mine already using it.  At that time, I still had to stripe time code to get it to sync to my audio recorder, but that quickly gave way to a newer version of their program called Digital Performer, and I’ve been there ever since.

 

I’ve tried a bunch of the other ones - Creator (which was originally on Atari and eventually became Logic), Vision (RIP), Cubase, Studio One and (of course) Pro Tools.  I even gave Universal audio’s newer platform Luna a test drive… but I’ve stuck with DP pretty much because after all the years I’ve been using it, I’ve gotten used to how it works and where the tools I need are located.

 

dB

[KuruPrionz]

9 minutes ago, Dave Bryce said:

My start with DAWs began over 30 years ago with Dr. T’s KCS on an Atari 520 computer.  It was basically almost all numerically based, with very few graphics.  I needed to stripe SMPTE time code on my Fostex 80 8 track reel to reel and sync it to the computer with a separate box (Fostex 4050 SMPTE to MIDI synchronizer) to incorporate audio into the equation.

 

But the Atari thing faded due largely to lack of traction, and gave way to my owning a Mac (SE30), as almost every musician I knew was using one, and I wanted access to the other tools like Microsoft Word and Excel towards which many people seemed to be gravitating.  I was living in Boston at the time, so I went with a local company with what I thought was a really cool name - Mark Of The Unicorn - and their program Performer, once again based on the larger number of friends of mine already using it.  At that time, I still had to stripe time code to get it to sync to my audio recorder, but that quickly gave way to a newer version of their program called Digital Performer, and I’ve been there ever since.

 

I’ve tried a bunch of the other ones - Creator (which was originally on Atari and eventually became Logic), Vision (RIP), Cubase, Studio One and (of course) Pro Tools.  I even gave Universal audio’s newer platform Luna a test drive… but I’ve stuck with DP pretty much because after all the years I’ve been using it, I’ve gotten used to how it works and where the tools I need are located.

 

dB

Your last sentence says it all. Once I was familiar and functional with the DAW I took to early on, it's hard to consider adding another learning curve just to do the same thing with different software. Be different if I had clients, then I'd probably have to use Pro Tools or something...

[Dave Bryce]

7 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

Once I was familiar and functional with the DAW I took to early on, it's hard to consider adding another learning curve just to do the same thing with different software.

 

Exactly, It’d probably be different if I could be convinced there was some sort of sonic advantage to changing to another DAW…

 

FWIW, I did find Creator and Logic especially off-putting because they felt more like they were designed for people who preferred working in more of a pattern-based environment.  I tend to use my DAW pretty much like I would (and did) use a tape recorder.

 

dB

[KuruPrionz]

Just now, Dave Bryce said:

 

Exactly, It’d probably be different if I could be convinced there was some sort of sonic advantage to changing to another DAW…

 

dB

Features is features.

[Paul Vnuk Jr.]

You said a key thing @Dave Bryce. You use DP because you are used to it. The same reason I give when people ask why I use Cubase. @DeltaJockey is right. 75% of all DAWs do the same thing...just with their own "spin" and nomenclature––the big exception being Ableton Live.

 

I am glad we are largely past the days of "needing" a particular DAW over another to be taken seriously. Yes, ProTools still dominates, but I know many people, professional, famous and/or otherwise, who use Reaper, Logic, Live, Nuendo and so on.

 

I was shocked a few years ago when I saw the results of some market research that FL Studio is one of the most purchased DAWs in the marketplace.

 

[Anderton]

On 1/2/2023 at 4:48 PM, Paul Vnuk Jr. said:

You said a key thing @Dave Bryce. You use DP because you are used to it. The same reason I give when people ask why I use Cubase. @DeltaJockey is right. 75% of all DAWs do the same thing...just with their own "spin" and nomenclature––the big exception being Ableton Live.

 

When people ask why I use Studio One and Ableton Live, my stock response is Studio One is a software emulation of a recording studio, while Ableton Live is a software emulation of a musical instrument. I'm not being flip, I really feel that way.

 

However, there are some DAW "killer features" that can influence people to choose one over the other. I've bounced around among multiple DAWs, but Studio One became my choice because of the integration between the mastering page and song page. Being able to hear something while mastering that I wanted to fix in a song, clicking over to the song and fixing it, then updating the mastering file was a huge deal for me compared to using two different programs. Then when they added Harmonic Editing, that sealed the deal. Being able to parse an acoustic guitar part - polyphonically! - and generate a chord track from that blew my mind, and changed my songwriting in super-beneficial ways.

 

But...if MIDI was most important for what I do, no question about it, I'd use Cubase. If surround, it would be Nuendo or Pro Tools. Then you have outliers, like Cakewalk. AFAIK it's the only DAW that does DSD export and import, which addresses a tiny niche market. I believe it's also the only program other than Acid that can create Acid-stretchable files. That may seem unnecessary give the quality of today's time-stretching algorithms, but the ability to follow tempo changes easily remains unique.

 

On 1/2/2023 at 4:48 PM, Paul Vnuk Jr. said:

I was shocked a few years ago when I saw the results of some market research that FL Studio is one of the most purchased DAWs in the marketplace.

 

That's still true.

[Nathanael_I]

I left Logic on the Mac when the trashcan MacPro was announced.  It was clear they weren't going to make something for audio people that generation.  I switched to Cubase on OS-X for orchestral mockup reasons.  Then I went to Cubase on Windows (its the native platform for Cubase).  Stayed there years.  Then moved up to Nuendo on a deal.  Added ProTools HDX last year.  Have had Ableton on both platforms for years. 

 

OSX is GigPerformer and Ableton at this point for live use on an M1 Max MBP.  DAW and video edit are both done on beefy Windows boxes I built. 

[Anderton]

23 hours ago, Nathanael_I said:

OSX is GigPerformer and Ableton at this point for live use on an M1 Max MBP.  DAW and video edit are both done on beefy Windows boxes I built. 

 

Sounds like me...Ableton Live on Apple laptop for live performance, heavy-duty Intel machine in the studio.

[analogika]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:36 AM, Nathanael_I said:

OSX is GigPerformer and Ableton at this point for live use on an M1 Max MBP.  DAW and video edit are both done on beefy Windows boxes I built. 

 

It might be interesting to see how the M1 Max fares with those additional duties in comparison to the Windows boxen. 

Obviously, just an experiment, time permitting. Not suggesting you redesign your whole workflow. 

[Nathanael_I]

The M1 would be ok for DAW on processor speed, but the MBP can’t take 128GB RAM for samples on the DAW side. On the video side, discrete graphics wins easily. 
 

Apple crushes the power/efficiency curve. But if you just want raw power for $, then building a PC gets you there. 8 lane memory…. 64+ PCIE lanes, you can build a very performant box. It’s expensive, but then there’s no “economy cores” - they all work. 
 

Audio pretty much rides for free these days on any decent spec machine. Video eats anything you give it - it’s truly how fast can you afford to go.  
 

I have thought about putting ProTools on a dedicated Mac Studio, and leaving the orchestral template on PC, but it’s kind of unnecessary trouble and expense. I’ll buy a 4090 or A6000 graphics card for the video box first. That will unlock 8k RAW workflows - the skin tones are so good…

[Anderton]

The latest Intel processors have 24 cores, but 8 are dedicated for sharing. So you don't have issues like some DAWs (ahem) using only a few cores out of what's available. They use all 8 cores all the time. It makes a major difference for Intel platforms. 

 

I'm sure a Mac Studio will do everything I need to run Logic. I probably need only the $2K model, with an extra $200 to upgrade the internal storage.

[Bill Heins]

I'm a PC guy but I run Cubase so if I did get a Mac I would run....wait for it...Cubase

 

Bill

[Anderton]

18 hours ago, Bill Heins said:

I'm a PC guy but I run Cubase so if I did get a Mac I would run....wait for it...Cubase

 

Bill

 

I'm a fan of cross-platform DAWs. I never know when the poles are going to flip, and I go from Windows to Mac, or vice-versa. Once you boot the program, the underlying OS isn't of any consequence.

[Nathanael_I]

This why I switched to Cubase from Logic…the platform independence. ProTools is the same. I run HDX on a PC platform. Works great. 

[zephonic]

I have both Logic and Cubase, and use them 20/80. I’m making an effort to get more into Logic because it just feels beefier, but I’m a longtime Cubase user and it’s like second nature to me. That messes me up in Logic regularly, as muscle memory will use a certain Cubase key command and something disappears in the project.

I was also gonna cop StudioOne, but put that on the back burner waiting to see what Fender is gonna do with it.

[Anderton]

On 1/25/2023 at 4:27 AM, zephonic said:

I was also gonna cop StudioOne, but put that on the back burner waiting to see what Fender is gonna do with it.

 

My guess is that Studio One will keep doing what it does, it has too much market share for any company to ignore.

[Bill Heins]

Changing my answer...upgraded to Nuendo 12 this past week

 

Bill

[Bill Stunt]

I primarily use Studio One. I love it for many reasons not the least of which is that it runs on both Mac and Windows. I also use Ableton Live and Pro Tools on both platforms. It makes life easier when working with collaborators. 

I share the Steinberg love that some have expressed here. When I was doing a lot of live recording my rig was based on a Macbook (various iterations thereof over the years), racks of mic preamps with optical outputs and RME interfaces. I started with Pro Tools as the recording/mix software but after seeing a demo at NAMM switched to Nuendo. I vastly preferred its interface and it's editing capabilities. I was a workflow issue. The work i was doing often had a very quick turnaround time and Nuendo, to me, was more efficient. I wrote several articles on my live recording rigs in Recording Magazine over the years. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

I use Cubase Pro - I don't care for Apple's UI design with Logic/Garageband/Mainstage (although I do use Mainstage), and I like the advanced midi features and depth of options in Cubase. It can do virtually anything I could possibly need. Also I like not being limited to AU plugins.

[Anderton]

I think that one's choice in a DAW may be due to some unique aspect. For example, if most of my work involved MIDI, Cubase would probably be my primary DAW because the MIDI capabilities are so developed. I mostly use Studio One these days because it's fast for songwriting, and I use the mastering <> song flipping feature a lot because I still do albums and collections of songs, not just singles.

[Paul Vnuk Jr.]

Oddly I have been a Cubase/Nuendo user forever and rarely do I do a ton of MIDI...often I regret never jumping on the ProTools train decades ago.

 

But these days I just know Cubase so well, I can work really fast, and I like its built-in (auto-tune-style) editing and other well-integrated features.

[CrossRhodes]

Ableton Live for drum programming and synth work. UAD Apollo for tracking bass and guitar as well as for mixing. Love the tight integration with all of my UAD plug ins.