A challenge for snobby musicians

[Franknputer]

If we're talking about the Hot 100 chart, which is singles, then it's based on a combination of radio airplay & sales data - this makes sense in that not many people buy singles anymore, but of course is skewed towards what's on the radio. Still, it does provide an opportunity for a massive sales push to be noticed (it seems?).

 

SoundScan data is based, according to their website, on weekly point-of-sales figures tracked via barcodes scanned at retail checkouts. I found no mention of units shipped being part of the data by either SoundScan or Billboard (or anyone else, for that matter).

 

Airplay is tracked via Nielsen BDS (Nielsen also runs SoundScan, BTW) which "captures in excess of 100 million song detections annually on more than 1,200 radio stations in over 130 markets in the U.S. (including Puerto Rico) and 22 Canadian markets..." via a pattern-recognition technology. (Which begs the question how they tell one crappy pop song from another, but I digress...)

 

I would think that perhaps the Album charts would have more weight from sales figures than the Hot 100, since people do still buy albums...but no one talked about that in what I could find, as the Hot 100 is the most well-known chart.

 

Of course, it's still not a wholly accurate representation of what's out there, but it's closer than it used to be, when everything was done via phone polling.

[Groovepusher Sly]

Originally posted by hard truth:

One of my points with this thread is that many narrow-minded musicians don't appreciate that it does take skill and talent to make (for just one example) a good techno record. The skill required might not be the ability to play complex chord changes, sing with a wide range etc. Instead the artist might bring other talents such as an ear for interesting timbral combinations, a sense for using rhythmic variation to build dynamics etc.

 

Thats your whole point.

 

The same applies to a blues artist. Muddy Waters probably wouldn't last long as a guitarist in the Tonight show orchestra, but his music will be appreciated for a long time. Every type of music needs to be judged on its own terms.

 

Muddy Waters no matter what his chosen genre, could still PLAY guitar. He probably could have sat in with just about anybody.

 

I do appreciate and respect those who work to develop traditional playing skills, I'm just saying that it is not the only approach to music making deserving of respect.

 

I dont think traditional (trained players) musicians really think any less of people who make music different ways, but as whitefang said earlier its just letting off steam. It can be frustrating to hear a hit record based on a sample of a guitar lick, when you know it could have been played, better, funkier, and probably much easier. IMO So if you get talked about because you dont play an instrument, dont know any music theory, and cant carry a tune in a bucket, just shrug it off and do your thing.

Sly

[ernest828]

Sorry, Hard Truth, but your premise is flawed.

Most times, people say those things to indicate that the artist managed to get enough backing for promotion to have a hit record. Sometimes sexual favors are involved. More often, good looks and half decent talent plus weaseling your way into the good graces of powerful people does the trick. At that, some people are masterful. Has nothing to do with being able to write great pop material. Let me put it another way.

Mark Chestnutt released a song as a single from an early album and it garnered no interest. Was the song just not hit material? Well, consider that shortly thereafter, Garth Brooks released the same song, albeit a better version (IMO) and it made him a superstar with a capitol "S".

The song was Friends In Low Places. So, obviously, it wasn't something wrong with the song that kept Mark Chestnutt from becoming what Garth Brooks became. It was a lot of things, from production, to his voice, to his attitude in singing the song. That's even before you factor in $$$ in promotion and after dollars spent getting that song in front of the right people to even make it as a simple cut, alongside 10 others on an album and hundreds of others released on albums that year.

Which makes your challenge pretty useless.

Thats a very interesting and legit point however I do agree with

 

That's why I am offering the alternative method for meeting my challenge. Just make your hit song in the genre requiring no talent, post it on-line and let your fellow forumites see if it really sounds like a hit in that genre.

Hard Pusher is challenging all of us and I think its good. Too much complaining going on here all the time. Lots of jealousy and its obvious. People spend more time on forums than they do making music and improving on their skills.

 

Let me tell you many artists making the hits today are not spending much time on forums, I`m sure some visit occassionally like Craig but they are way too busy to be wasting time on here posting nonsense. You see people here with thousands of posts, that tells me two things:

 

1. They have no life

 

2. They rather be posting than making music. Which says they are not artists.

 

I know thats going to get some comments and I love the one I hear all the time, "I come here to unwind from work." Please, just get on with it and admit you enjoy this more than hard work which is creating.

 

I had a teacher tell me once in HS, "If you`re not willing to eat, shit, breath your work, don`t do this."

 

Peace,

Ernest

[ernest828]

I forgot to mention, my album is almost done, (November release date). I`m willing to put up some MP3s here and have people comment when the mixes are complete. I sincerely hope you all enjoy the music.

Thats enough talk.

 

Peace,

Ernest

[philbo_Tangent]

Originally posted by hard truth:

Phil- I'm surprised at you! Coming to Take me Away Ha Ha is one of the Greatest Recordings of All time. It was so good that it was banned from radio after becoming a huge hit. I'm not kidding.

 

Not much to it from a traditional musical perspective, but the spare, simple audio setting and the edginess in the voice successfully convey the artist's intended mood and message quite effectively. There was never anything quite like it before. (Although Spike Jones' version of My Old Flame comes close)

 

I predict some day in the future most of the flashy bands showing off their hard earned classical skills will be long forgotten and "coming to take me away' will remain an underground classic.

 

Why?-Its funny, original, interesting and weird. Not just because of promotion.

 

I am not denying that many, if not most, records become hits due to reasons having nothing to do with the quality of the material or recording. One of my points with this thread is that many narrow-minded musicians don't appreciate that it does take skill and talent to make (for just one example) a good techno record. The skill required might not be the ability to play complex chord changes, sing with a wide range etc. Instead the artist might bring other talents such as an ear for interesting timbral combinations, a sense for using rhythmic variation to build dynamics etc.

 

The same applies to a blues artist. Muddy Waters probably wouldn't last long as a guitarist in the Tonight show orchestra, but his music will be appreciated for a long time. Every type of music needs to be judged on its own terms.

 

I do appreciate and respect those who work to develop traditional playing skills, I'm just saying that it is not the only approach to music making deserving of respect.

Good answer...

Sometimes musical virtousity is just boring, especially if the performance is bereft of feeling - - that's why a lot of stuff falls flat.

 

BTW, I always did love that record; I don't hold against ol' Napoleon that it became a hit, I just thought it was a good example something that normally wouldn't have seen the light of day. The B side is also pretty cool...

 

(I heard that it was done as a lark by a record company exec who was going through a divorce, and somebody decided it was just goofy enough to hit the charts. Don't know if it's true, heard the story many years ago.)

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by hard truth:

 

This SYNTH POP music is BS, any idiot with a COMPUTER AND MIDI CONTROLLERS -and years of learning music, music production, audio, digital audio, Public Relations, Marketing, Graphic design, Web Design, Performing Live, composing music and several other things- can make a "song" in a couple of hours and it will be a hit."

Dejate Amar (Let me Love You)

 

Already in the hits lists in several cities in My country.

[Gus Lozada]

Originally posted by ernest828@aol.com:

Let me tell you many artists making the hits today are not spending much time on forums, I`m sure some visit occassionally like Craig but they are way too busy to be wasting time on here posting nonsense. You see people here with thousands of posts, that tells me two things:

 

1. They have no life

 

2. They rather be posting than making music. Which says they are not artists.

 

I know thats going to get some comments and I love the one I hear all the time, "I come here to unwind from work." Please, just get on with it and admit you enjoy this more than hard work which is creating.

 

Peace,

Ernest

* I'm less than 10 posts away from meeting the 10k mark

 

* THIS is my work for CMP/MusicPlayer. I love it. And NO, I don't get a salary from this.

 

* I am a recording and performing artist. Several years of experience and maybe thousands now of live performances can tell you that.

 

* I have a very interesting life out of here, just in case it's required

[Bbach1]

Originally posted by ernest828@aol.com:

Let me tell you many artists making the hits today are not spending much time on forums, I`m sure some visit occassionally like Craig but they are way too busy to be wasting time on here posting nonsense. You see people here with thousands of posts, that tells me two things:

 

1. They have no life

 

2. They rather be posting than making music. Which says they are not artists.

 

I know thats going to get some comments and I love the one I hear all the time, "I come here to unwind from work." Please, just get on with it and admit you enjoy this more than hard work which is creating.

 

I had a teacher tell me once in HS, "If you`re not willing to eat, shit, breath your work, don`t do this."

 

Peace,

Ernest

That's harsh Ernie. However, in effect, you are right on. Not just about music but about anything. For most humans, other than a few total luckys, total dedication and countless hours of work are required for getting to the "top" of your field. (along with a complete refusal to quit). Most of us will not get there simply because we work jobs that we have no passion for so we can help feed our families. Then we come home to the things we love, such as family and music, and spend some time with it, but not nearly enough. Then we log on to chat with others in the same exact boat.

[Tedster]

Are we really going here again?

 

We are all different, with different circumstances. Anyone who judges another based on their own personal set of circumstances is completely missing the point.

 

I'm sure some of us live in an urban environment where we have a lot of friends, social contacts, etc. Some of us have jobs that defy that lifestyle...live in locales that defy that, etc. For instance...I used to live in Valdez, Alaska...working rotating shifts, weekends, etc. If you ever find yourself living in Valdez...you'll make a lot of friends, and you can talk about anything, as long as it's guns or fishing. Which is great if you're only into guns and fishing. Don't look for musical brothers and sisters, though. It ain't gonna happen. So, for someone who lives in, say, New York or L.A., and perhaps works in the music biz or some peripheral biz...they're going to have a completely different frame of social contacts, a wider choice, than someone who lives, say, 25 miles outside of Fargo. Or Kansas City. So, what I'm saying is everyone is here for their own reasons, and if you disagree with those reasons based upon your own circumstances...just shut the fuck up.

[Darklava]

It's all in who you know and who you blow.

[Steve LeBlanc]

Originally posted by ernest828@aol.com:

Let me tell you many artists making the hits today are not spending much time on forums, I`m sure some visit occassionally like Craig but they are way too busy to be wasting time on here posting nonsense. You see people here with thousands of posts, that tells me two things:

 

1. They have no life

 

2. They rather be posting than making music. Which says they are not artists.

 

I know thats going to get some comments and I love the one I hear all the time, "I come here to unwind from work." Please, just get on with it and admit you enjoy this more than hard work which is creating.

 

I had a teacher tell me once in HS, "If you`re not willing to eat, shit, breath your work, don`t do this."

 

Peace,

Ernest

most ridiculous post of the year

 

how old are you Ernest? Maybe someday you'll have the wisdom to understand why everyone has different sets of priorities and reasons for what they do in life. Not everyone is skating along with blinders on, in fact, most aren't.

 

I have a son that has to be fed three times everyday...I live in one of the more expensive cities in the U.S. Would you have me abandon him and my wife to make music every single waking hour of my life? yeah I might find a way to feed myself but my family would be dead or homeless.

 

So, I waste 40+ hours a week in an office. You think I'm happy about that? get a clue...sometimes life throws you curveballs...not only am I working a job that takes up more of my personal time than I'd like but since about 2 years ago it's gone from a friendly family business to corporate hell...you think I chose that??

 

Anyone who's worked a corporate (or even small-business) job knows that you have to have something to relieve the pressure/stress during the work day...I really do hope you never have to know this so well. I type about 100wpm...I read very fast, so consider 3+ years of stopping in on this forum and it's not hard to see why I have so many posts...it only takes a few a day.

 

Regardless...none of my circumstances (by choice or not) have kept me from adding to my musical catalog and improving it's quality every year. My new CD is in the mixing stage, not everyone will love it, people are fickle, but there will be no doubt about it's quality, it kicks serious ass on many levels.

 

I sacrifice sleep and sanity to find the time for this project as well as keeping my keyboard technique from getting stagnant with long improv jams every Friday night.

 

ah, nice to get that off my chest...now, in short...shut up!

[Tedster]

Yeah, always amazes me that those "results-oriented miracle folks" who are too busy being practical and getting things done somehow find the time to stop by and criticize.

[Steve LeBlanc]

yeah

 

and one other thing while I'm, er, educating Ernest...

 

This forum is not just a place to talk about myself or make fun of celebrities...it's also a community...I've met a lot of really good folks who have helped me in so many ways I can't even begin to list it all.

 

Two of the people I've met in this forum have made my new record possible...it wasn't my intention when I first came here but I've gained real friends/collaborators through 'posting on a silly bb'. People I not only enjoy working with but spend a lot of quality time (family) with as well. I could write all day about how many great life experiences have come about because of meeting people through this and other internet forums. These things happen because I am actively living...not the life I chose but I'm making it work.

 

DUDE!

 

P.S.

 

And, I think I've just spoken for many others who hang on this forum regularly with at least one or two of my statements. Everyone here has their own set of reasons why they started and continue to visit. For most it's a positive thing...yeah some might just be losers but who are you to judge without knowing better?

[Mike Dawson]

Originally posted by zeronyne:

Is it Freudian that you listed country twice?

 

I am totally with you on this one.

[Mike Dawson]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Mark Chestnutt released a song as a single from an early album and it garnered no interest. Was the song just not hit material?

 

Well, consider that shortly thereafter, Garth Brooks released the same song, albeit a better version (IMO) and it made him a superstar with a capitol "S".

 

The song was Friends In Low Places.

 

So, obviously, it wasn't something wrong with the song that kept Mark Chestnutt from becoming what Garth Brooks became. It was a lot of things, from production, to his voice, to his attitude in singing the song. That's even before you factor in $$$ in promotion and after dollars spent getting that song in front of the right people to even make it as a simple cut, alongside 10 others on an album and hundreds of others released on albums that year.

That's about as right as right could be. Exact same song, released around the same time. Garth's version became probably the best known country song in the world. Mark Chesnutt's version made such a splash that most people don't even know he recorded it.

 

Hey Neil, do you know who produced that Mark Chesnutt album? I'm not usually one to criticize, but talk about underachieving. You've possibly the greatest country song of the past 20 years and a great singer like Chesnutt, and the result sounds more like a demo than a record.

[YourMotherShouldKnow]

I agree with Ernest's point that there are fewer relevant artists than most people would have you believe. The way he said it came across as harsh but I don't think he was trying to be a dick about it. Hey Ernest, were you trying to be a dick about it?

 

Personally, I've learned a great deal from the people on the forums here. From mixing to elementary web design to marketing 101. All important parts of being an artist. I'm very grateful that this is here and I hope I contribute something in return.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by ernest828@aol.com:

I forgot to mention, my album is almost done, (November release date). I`m willing to put up some MP3s here and have people comment when the mixes are complete. I sincerely hope you all enjoy the music.

Gosh, you've been registered since 2000 and this is the first record you're putting out since you've been on here? In that amount of time, I formed a band in 2001, we put out a record last year and have most of the material written for our second (which we're about to start recording), joined a second band last year which has done a season's worth of cable TV shows and is halfway done with an EP and an album, played a shitload of live gigs, engineered half a dozen records for other people, written some articles for EQ, etc. I've spent countless hours working out songs and arrangements, trying new audio tricks (many of which I learned here) and generally trying to improve my craft in whatever way I can. And I have over 10K posts here. You must really "not be an artist" if you hardly spend any time posting here and yet all you've got is one album that isn't even done yet.

 

Really Ernest, give it a rest. For some folks these forums ARE a part of living, sleeping and breathing our art. I've learned so much here and met so many great people that have directly or indirectly helped my music. As others have pointed out, everyone's here for a different reason and has different life circumstances, and I would certainly never question anyone's reason for being here (no matter what their post count is) unless it seems their whole purpose is to antagonize other forum members for no apparent reason.

 

And by the way, a lot of people who make "hit records" DO participate in forums like these, or at least would like to. Many have stopped posting because they got hassled too much, although they still read the forums. Others have posted under fake identities for the same reason. But in general, I wouldn't be so quick to make the kinds of assumptions you do, nor do I understand your need to keep making them.

[Lee Flier]

Oh, and to answer Hard Truth's original "challenge," personally, I think it takes a great deal of skill to make ANY kind of music WELL. And that includes rap, techno, country, metal and anything else. Only a handful will ever be great at any of them. I think when most people make the kinds of comments you refer to, what they're really complaining about is that it's become easier than ever to make what is really a pale imitation of any of those art forms. In other words you HAVE to be of a certain technical calibre to even begin to play jazz or classical at all, but with most popular styles you CAN learn 3 power chords, or buy a sampler and a turntable, and call yourself a rapper or rocker or whatever. Whether you are able to make anything compelling just because you have the tools to make something that sounds like music, is another story altogether, but that doesn't say anything about the overall artistic worth of a certain genre. Just means there are more people making crappy imitations of it.

[Prague]

Originally posted by ernest828@aol.com:

Peace,

Ernest

Hey, he says Peace, so he must be one of the "good" people.

[Hound Dog]

I understand the point that Ernest is trying to make, even though his choice of words might be subject to criticism.

 

My interpretation is that he made a general comment that the people who make hits are not routinely involved in forums like these because they are usually very driven people, focused on their art and working intense schedules.

 

He generalized that many forumites have thousands of posts, and in his opinion, these folks may like to type about making music more than they actually like to make music. Certainly not everyone can be covered by this blanket comment.

 

I can relate. Though a career in music is no longer in my plans, I spend a fair amount of time reading posts in this forum and I find it interesting. If I applied the time I spend on these forum to practicing guitar or getting some music recorded, I would definitely get better at it. As it is, I have to be my own judge as to how much time I spend at each. But when things get busy and I have to prioritize, the forum is low on the list. It is just not necessary to my sucess professionally or personally. I do not kid myself for one minute about this: If I were a professional musician chasing after a hit and a real career in music, trying to be the best at that, I would have no time for this forum. I would not let myself get wrapped up in it.

 

A while back I had an email exchange with Roger Fisher, one of my favorite guitarist who played with Heart in the 70's. I thought about suggesting that he visit the forum and tell him that I thought he would be received well. Then I thought better. This guy doesn't have time for this. He's too busy being successful (I know, you haven't heard him on the radio in a while. But, he is producing music and video).

 

Does anybody think Eddie Van Halen would post here? Maybe a cameo is a remote possibility, but not as a regular. He's too busy making music.

 

Is Tedster really The Edge from U2? (sorry Tedster, your name just came to mind)

 

We've got Lee, but what about the real Keith Richards? Does anyone expect him to be dropping by soon?

 

I don't think we do and I think we all know why.

 

I just finished reading (wrestler) Ric Flair's book "To Be The Man." Before you laugh, it is a pretty good read. What is impressive is his work ethic. For years he worked a match seven days a week, twice on Sat and Sun. For years he did that. He sacrificed alot personally, but he says it was simply who he was. You don't get to be considered the top of you field by your fans AND your peers by hanging out in internet forums.

 

I think Ernest is talking about the top, the elite, the best. I agree with him that I do not see them here and I understand why.

 

If any of you are fortunate to become regarded as the best in your field along with the likes of those mentioned above, I applaud you. I think what Earnest is saying is that if you desire to be the very best and you have not achieved it, maybe your should consider getting off the internet and getting busy. I sympathize with the struggle and live it everyday. Good luck.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

My interpretation is that he made a general comment that the people who make hits are not routinely involved in forums like these because they are usually very driven people, focused on their art and working intense schedules.

Yes, I understand his point, but he's wrong. Actually I've known quite a few "people who make hits" and they run the gamut of personalities from extremely driven to very laid back. Many also work intense schedules periodically but then follow that up with a long period of "recharging the battery." And many have looked back later on in life and said they regret having wasted so much time on things like partying, when they could have been doing something more constructive with all their free time and money - yet they may have done their best creative work during the years when they were doing the most partying and "time wasting."

 

I do not kid myself for one minute about this: If I were a professional musician chasing after a hit and a real career in music, trying to be the best at that, I would have no time for this forum.

I really have no idea why you would think that. Lots of professionals have posted regularly on forums and enjoy it. I don't see anybody telling George Massenburg he doesn't have a life, or Carol Kaye, or any number of other folks who are considered the best at what they do and yet enjoy giving something back in the form of Internet forums, web sites, personal email, etc.

 

Does anybody think Eddie Van Halen would post here? Maybe a cameo is a remote possibility, but not as a regular. He's too busy making music.

LOL... not exactly. Once you've reached a certain level of success such as EVH has, you have a LOT more free time than the average person. And as I mentioned above, quite a few successful people actually have more free time than they know what to do with, and end up becoming addicts or otherwise often wasting time. Keith Richards used to say that he didn't get into heroin when he was busy, it was when he WASN'T touring that he didn't know what to do with himself. John Lennon said he'd often write songs by lying in bed for days being depressed and staring endlessly at the TV.

 

If people like Eddie Van Halen don't post here it's more likely because I've hardly ever seen anyone famous be able to participate in Internet newsgroups without some psychopath eventually making it impossible for them to participate. Roger McGuinn of the Byrds for example, used to be an AVID participant on Byrds related and guitar related newsgroups. He genuinely enjoyed conversing with the fans and tried to personally answer every email he received. He even did this while on the road - in fact, especially while on the road (from his laptop) because when touring you have a lot of time just getting to the next gig or waiting around between load-in and showtime.

 

But Roger had to quit because a few psychotic fans eventually started slandering him and telling lies about him just so they could say they'd personally made Roger McGuinn's life hell. So because of a few assholes, that ruined it for everybody. I've seen similar things happen with other famous people who genuinely would like to participate in Internet discussions - many see the Internet as a way to interact with people from a safe distance and yet still interact. But apparently the distance still isn't safe enough.

 

McGuinn still does, however, record a song every month for Internet release only, which he's done every month since 1995 without fail, even if he's on the road. Pretty remarkable, really, and it's obviously been very rewarding both for him and his fans.

 

In any case, if successful people don't frequent Internet forums it's rarely because they are so driven that they spend every waking hour playing music. Even those who are highly driven to succeed rarely retain that level of intensity for more than a few years, and at that point if they are successful they want to enjoy the fruits of their labor. Some might prefer to party, watch TV, play golf, go vacationing on a remote island or spend time with family rather than get on the Internet, but the point is they aren't spending ALL of their time playing. Most acknowledge that after a certain point, spending all of your time playing isn't even a good thing creatively, and many creative people need long periods of downtime to fuel their creative energy. I know I do. There are some folks who are real "Type A" personalities and ALWAYS need to be busy, but there are just as many who sleep or watch TV except for the couple of hours they're on stage.

 

As with most things, it's an individual thing.

 

I think what Earnest is saying is that if you desire to be the very best and you have not achieved it, maybe your should consider getting off the internet and getting busy.

As mentioned, I consider being on the Internet PART of my work, and the Internet has been a tremendous resource for my musical life, both on the creative and business end. I see lots of other people here using it similarly. Many have even said they benefitted more from participating in these forums than they ever did going to recording school for example, or reading a manual. In that sense, Internet discussion can be a time SAVER because you can often get direct answers to questions that you might previously have had to spend hours researching. That's happened for me many times.

 

There is definitely no substitute for real-world experience and relationships, but everybody's situation is different and spending a lot of time on the Internet doesn't necessarily preclude getting real work done - it can HELP get real work done in fact. Just depends on what your situation is and how you allocate your time, none of which Ernest has any way of knowing.

[Steve LeBlanc]

well...sorry to trip out earlier...I guess I just took Ernest's comments to heart because I have had to justify the time I spend on the net to myself. I was just a bit offended by his post, that's all.

 

no worries, it's all good

[Phait]

John Lennon said he'd often write songs by lying in bed for days being depressed and staring endlessly at the TV.

Eeh, I've been pulling a Lennon.

 

Also, about celebs-online - you know, what about the issue of proof?

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Phait:

Also, about celebs-online - you know, what about the issue of proof?

What, you mean proving they really are who they say they are? Oh yeah, that's a problem too of course. On the other hand, although I've seen some imposters get ferreted out pretty quickly on the Internet, a guy was just arrested last year for having impersonated a fairly well known friend of mine for YEARS and bilked people out of money! How he got away with it for that long and people believed him, is beyond me.

 

Stephen, you don't need to justify jack shit. Anybody knows how hard you work at your music and how much talent you have, if they've actually heard you. Sheesh.

[Tedster]

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

Is Tedster really The Edge from U2? (sorry Tedster, your name just came to mind)

 

DAMN! Discovered again! Ah well, back to the Explorer and the stocking cap.

 

Nope. I'm really a nobody. Matter of fact, I'm less than a nobody...but, I get to hang out with "somebodies" here...and, ya know what...they (as Lee pointed out) help me out from time to time.

 

Just to reiterate why I love hanging here...because it is in fact the epitome of John and Yoko's "bagism". A nobody can converse with someone who's world famous..on a relatively level playing field. I don't know if a lot of the folks I'm "talking" to are male or female, black, white, orange, purple...beautiful, ugly, or somewhere in between...rich, poor, someone with Yngwie chops...someone who's been playing a month...or someone who's been playing for 35 years and still sounds like they've been playing a month. It doesn't matter. We're all just trying to learn, and have a little fun (to quote Dave Mason) before we die.

[Hound Dog]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

 

[qb]I do not kid myself for one minute about this: If I were a professional musician chasing after a hit and a real career in music, trying to be the best at that, I would have no time for this forum.

I really have no idea why you would think that. Lots of professionals have posted regularly on forums and enjoy it. I don't see anybody telling George Massenburg he doesn't have a life, or Carol Kaye, or any number of other folks who are considered the best at what they do and yet enjoy giving something back in the form of Internet forums, web sites, personal email, etc.

 

Please notice that I am speaking about what would work for me. I am not suggesting that it applies to all others. I know myself and I know that for me, internet forums can be a distraction and a real waste of time. I am well aware that some professionals can get alot out of it. But for me, it would never be where the rubber meets the road. Sorry to say, but I feel it really lacks credibility as a medium. I can pickup some very informative and insightful stuff and enjoy some conversation, but I still have to wade through a lot to get there. For me, it is low priority. For others that have found a way to make it productive and useful, I am happy for you.

 

It is interesting that many of the forumites address the number of posts they or others have with great importance. Looking at some of the counts it is easy to see that many people must devote what I would consider a great amount of time to this activity. Some people probably spend 10 to 20 hours a week here. Some people probably spend more than that. To me, that is a lot of time! Any one care to comment on the amount of time they spend here or should we start a thread for that? We might see some interesting responses.

[Anderton]

Everyone needs a break. There are a lot of ways to take that break. If someone has a lot of posts here, what it tells me is that they don't watch TV, aren't into sports, or the many other ways in which people unwind. They choose to come here instead.

 

For me, the forum is about multiplexing.

 

Right now, my music computer is recording narration from a NAMM show demo. I have to listen to it as it's being transferred from Minidisc to Wavelab, and every now and then I sneak a look over at the meters to make sure everything's okay, but it doesn't require my full attention. So it's a great time to hang here and see what's shaking.

 

I'll probably log off after typing this response, and get back to typing up NAMM show report fodder for EQ on this computer until the file transfer is done. Then I'll start synching the narration with the video. Meanwhile, I've had a nice little break.

 

Yes, I understand the need for dedication in one's art. But sometimes the best thing you can do for your music is have a life, and sometimes that involves being sociable.

[Anderton]

Regarding hits -- I think it's best to just be true to yourself. If you're lucky, skillful, and a bunch of other factors come into play, then maybe something you do will resonate with a lot of people and you'll have a hit. Maybe you won't.

 

There have been songs that weren't hits but later became hits because they were used in a movie, or a DJ discovered it in a corner, or whatever. The song didn't change; only the circumstances.

 

If you write a song and it changes ONE person's life for the better, that's a hit as far as I'm concerned. A very small hit, yes, and not one that's going to make you any money, but you've done the thing a hit is supposed to do.

 

A hit is not a hit because it makes money.

 

A hit is a hit because it connects with people.

[Anderton]

<>

 

That's what I refer to as "the look and feel of music." You CAN throw a few loops into Acid or Garageband and create "the look and feel of music." You can also throw a few loops into Acid or Garageband, add some cool overdubs, edit the hell out of what you have, and write lyrics that touch someone's soul. I think we all can recognize the difference!

[ernest828]

I agree with Ernest's point that there are fewer relevant artists than most people would have you believe. The way he said it came across as harsh but I don't think he was trying to be a dick about it. Hey Ernest, were you trying to be a dick about it?

No I wasn`t but I do have a reputation around here with some that I happen to unnerve. Some of you understood what I was saying, others disagree. Fine. Posting is about sharing your own point of view, thats all I was doing. Maybe I`m a slow typer. I just know if I were to post as many threads as some here, I would not get much done in my life.

 

I`ll say it again, hit makers have little time to be spending time online in forums thats because they are working beyond 40 hours creating. Creating does not work 9-5. Most of these hit makers are also working as independents, providing for their own health benefits, 401s, and always looking for their next job. They do not have the luxury to spend time online which this is.

 

These people are living lives that are very much unpredictable and uncomfortable in that they do not know if they`ll be working in another year or so. Most people who even though they are working 40 hour weeks at jobs they hate are comfortable with their lives or just too lazy to do anything about it if they are not comfortable. You choose your path everyday.

 

Being an artist is a totally different way of thinking and living than most of us realize. Its not pretty, its not easy, it is not romantic. Maybe this sounds like your job. Many years of struggle and hard work go unrewarded, maybe this too sounds like your plot. A few get through the threshold, just a few. These few are not concerned with visiting forums to unwind. They are focused on their work. Unlike most here they are always

working for their next job.

 

Of course there are exceptions to the rule because there are individuals here who work full time in their own businesses providing for themselves in every capacity so don`t jump down my throat again. I`m acknowledging you.

 

This thread was challenging those who complain to step up and prove themselves. In my experience these people will not do so. They will remain complainers. They complain because they are simply too lazy to put in the effort and they lack the discipline it takes to be successful.

 

They will continue to complain because it is just easier.

 

Yes, that may be harsh but its the truth.

 

Peace,

Ernest