Best software synths for improving at analog subtractive synthesis?

[Ben One]

As an amateur musician who has recently become more active again, I'm realizing firsthand how useful it still is in 2022 to be proficient in synth programming, including analog subtractive synthesis. When I need a particular sound for a song on my Kronos that I'm playing with a band, the knowledge of the fundamentals helps immensely. I'm getting better at programming on the Kronos, but, if this makes sense, it's clearly not the best platform for getting better at synth programming.

 

I've completed about two-thirds of the excellent Syntorial app. As some of you may know, Syntorial teaches the principles of analog synthesis and includes plenty of exercises in which you have to match a sound by adjusting the various parameters on an analog synth. It includes a really good basic synth, called Primer, that you can play around with independently of the lessons.

 

I'm wondering if there is a soft synth with an even better interface, enabling you to, for example, easily adjust envelopes and other modulation tools and see/hear the results without having to do much diving into submenus or switching between multiple windows. Primer includes all the action on one screen, which is really great. But it doesn't, for example, graphically show envelope shapes so I can more intuitively get a sense of how to modify them to produce the desired sound. To be fair, Primer is a teaching tool, and maybe these sorts of bells and whistles are not useful, but I thought I'd ask.

 

Thanks!

Ben

[Bill Heins]

You can give this a shot, gorgeous analog sound and a full interface for editing

 

https://u-he.com/products/diva/

 

Bill

[EricBarker]

In my opinion, no soft synth UI has come close to touching the original NI Massive. Not commenting on its sound, features, or preset quality, I know there's now a lot better. However, for shear intuitive workflow, nothing beats it, IMO. I feel like it's the first soft synth to completely do away with trying to replicate hardware, and develop a very intuitive computer-centric workflow. The beauty is you're doing exactly the same things as hardware, the same routing, but it's designed to be fast and easy to use with a screen and mouse. Being a fairly early wavetable soft synth, long before Serum, Zebra, Pigments, or the rest (which all take some heavy influence from Massive), it's quite basic and not overwhelming. I still open it if I want to make a patch in a hurry. Pigments is becoming my goto these days, but it's got thousands of features and is sometimes very slow and deep to troubleshoot.

For someone just starting out, if you can get your hands on NI Massive, I highly recommend it.

[EricBarker]

1 minute ago, Bill Heins said:

You can give this a shot, gorgeous analog sound and a full interface for editing

 

https://u-he.com/products/diva/

 

Bill

I love Diva. Absolutely my synth of choice when I can't sling my PolyD along. However, for a beginner, I would say it's very deep and not always very intuitive. The fact that it tries to combine modules from many manufacturers and juggles terminology is a bit tricky. Don't get me wrong, it's perfect, but I wouldn't throw it at a beginner.

[Bill Heins]

Arturia Moog Modular maybe? Another full interface based on actual hardware.

 

Bill

[ElmerJFudd]

Ya U-he Diva or Hive.  
 

Inexpensive/free to practice with: 

 

https://tytel.org/helm/

https://www.syntorial.com

 

https://blamsoft.com/vst/vk-1-viking-synthesizer/

 

https://sites.google.com/site/mlvst0/

https://tal-software.com/products

Honestly VA synths with subtractive style synthesis is the most common VST/AU available.  That largely has to do with developers knowing that’s what we tend to go for.  
 

Other than oscillators, pitch, filters, amp, adsr, etc. the biggest difference programming wise from one to the next is what the modulation matrix is capable of.  

If you can use Diva or other VA synths you will also easily jump into all the wavetable synths - like Massive as mentioned above.  

 

[Iconoclast]

I would enthusiastically recommend AGAINST Arturia's Moog Modular.  If you are a beginner in subtractive synthesis, that program might make you quit trying all together.

As a beginner I'd start as simply as possible and I've found that Mainstage's RetroSynth is really the best place to start, and surprisingly powerful.  Although it has very limited modulation possibilities it is otherwise very musical and in many of my performances you'll find a whole lot  retrosynth patches because they're so quick/easy/basic and usable.

If you don't have mainstage my next recommendation might be arturia's Juno 60, again because it's simple. Pigments might also be OK because although it's very very deep, the analog engine has very good presentation of how modulation and envelopes work.

I've never used Diva so I can't recommend for/against.

I learned more about synthesis from some of the more simple keyboards. For example, my OB-6, which is really very simple, has taught me more than some of more complicated boards.

I love Soccer96 and The Comet is Coming and that keyboard player pulls an enormous amount of gorgeous sounds from a Juno-60 and SH-01; two of the simplest synths ever made.

So I would say, start with something simple and only move on when you honestly think it's limits are holding you back.

[David Emm]

I agree, the Moog Modular isn't the right starting point. That'd be a serious overload for the job at hand. I DO recommend a Minimoog, if it fits your sound goals well enough. All other subtractive signal flow designs stem from this one to some degree, because it IS so fundamental. If you are playing a Kronos, you're already in the big boy club, so its a bit hard to advise you past a certain point.

 

Don't expect Pigments to help. I play it and its quite impressive, but it'll boggle you too easily. Its very modular for such an advanced slab synth, IMO. I get good results with it, but you have to sweat more to make it all happen. Its a Swiss Army knife synth. You need a butter knife!

 

It sounds like you know enough to handle something of an in-between nature. As one idea, look at Cherry Audio's emulations. The free 'Surrealistic MG-1' is as basic as it gets.

 

https://cherryaudio.com/products/surrealistic-mg-1-plus

 

If that feels too simple, they also offer excellent Memorymoog & Minimoog variants, a Jupiter-4 remake and a Juno-106, among others. Any of those can easily show you the A-B-C-D of subtractive and the company's overall sound quality is excellent. I can testify that the Memorymode (Memorymoog) rattles my bass bin with authority. U-he's Diva is something of a gold standard, but its a Step 3 or Step 4 power-synth, not a Step 1. I hope some of that will dovetail with what you've learned from your Kronos. 

 

Moog Music offers their own Minimoog plug-in too, BTW. My take on it: get a Minimoog or that Jupiter-4 plug. A couple of months with either of those and the AHA! moments will add up. Good luck!

[Tusker]

I agree that simple is good. At first. U-he Repro mimics the sound and layout of the Sequential Circuits Pro 1 and Prophet 5 and is 50% off at Native Instruments at the moment. Alternatively, the Synapse Audio Legend is a very good mimic of the Moog Minimoog. There are other synths of course. But these sound good and will be satisfying.

 

The alternative strategy is to go in the deep end with something like the aforementioned Pigments with it’s excellent visual feedback. If you have done syntorial, you may be ready for something more than the basics. 

[EricBarker]

My problem with Pigments is the feedback ISNT immediate. The modulators are hidden. You have to click the control or modulator to see what the connection is. Sure, the moving ring is cute, but I find it to be much more of a “menu dive” than something like Massive, which shows you your mod connections up front. This has been my biggest struggle with Pigments, not so much the complexity, but the amount of hidden crap. Otherwise it’s a fantastic synth.

[Ben One]

Thanks to everyone for these great recommendations and insights. I'll check them out as much as I can.

 

Yeah, I've spent some time with the Arturia Moog Modular V. It gave me a glimpse of the mind-blowing capabilities of modular synthesis. I even made a few good sounds with it, but honestly, I didn't completely know what I was doing, so it's better for me to learn and master a simpler architecture first.

 

Ben

[KuruPrionz]

Not sure if it fits the description in the OP but Surge is free and everything is a slider. There are no "knobs".

That makes it easy to see where things are at a glance. 

Podolski is free. All knobs, plenty of parameters to tweak. 

Pendulate is free and a bit freaky. 

 

You can find LOTS of free synths, if you don't have a use for them then away they go and no regrets. 

There's no harm in surfing the presets and tweaking to see what happens. 

Keep an eye out for sales too, right now Plugin Boutique has Orb Synth for $5 and you can get CA 2600 for free in the bargain. I haven't installed them yet so I can't say much but it's been my experience the the Cherry Audio synths do sound very good and worst case you just paid $5 for one. 

[Tusker]

Also, whatever synth you decide on, if it’s not free, see if it has a free demo. Take it for a spin and see if you can love the sound.
 

Being fascinated by the sounds you are creating is a necessary ingredient. 

[CyberGene]

Nothing beats the real hardware for good tactile feel. I’d recommend a Behringer Model D which is a replica of Minimoog. Sounds good, feels good, simple to understand. 

[Stokely]

Besides being relatively simple, Repro is also the best-sounding vst I've personally used.  I mainly use Repro 5, which obviously is reproducing a specific model (which happens to be one I always liked.)  I have many plugins bought over the years on sale but Repro and Diva are the ones I use the most, by far.  

If you are using Logic pro, the built-in "Retro Synth" is very simple and easy to dial in.  U-he has the free "Tyrell N6" which is basically emulating a Roland Juno I think, so it's also pretty simple.

[CyberGene]

I love Diva, it’s the best virtual synth I’ve ever used but I think it’s not exactly the easiest to understand. Call me stupid but for the life of me I can’t remember what the LFO depth knob actually does (it’s not LFO depth) and why you hear vibrato when it’s zeroed and why you stop hearing vibrato when it’s maxed out 😲 Once I spent hours scratching my head figuring out why it’s “reversed” and I wrote some notes down, that I recall whenever I start creating a new patch to save me some headaches:

 

Understanding the “counterintuitive” LFO depth mod knob:

Basically, the knob does not set the amplitude/effect of the LFO to its destination. Instead, it determines how much of the LFO amplitude is affected by the mod source. So, since LFO1 is hard linked to osc pitch in the vibrato section and if we use mod wheel as mod source:

- setting the knob to zero will mean that there is constant vibrato regardless of mod wheel.

- if set to maximum, only the mod wheel determines how much vibrato (amplitude) there is.

- If in between, both constant vibrato will be applied and an additional mod wheel vibrato will be added

- If we select “none” as mod source, it’s equivalent to a constant of zero or the same as mod wheel at zero position, however the mod wheel won’t affect vibrato or other LFO destinations

[Ben One]

Eric, as it so happens, I do have Massive (as part of a Komplete 13 crossgrade) and I'm checking it out now. I do like its interface. What exactly was the original one? Was it released in the mid-2000s? How was the original better, out of curiosity.

Ben

On 12/23/2022 at 3:47 PM, EricBarker said:

In my opinion, no soft synth UI has come close to touching the original NI Massive. Not commenting on its sound, features, or preset quality, I know there's now a lot better. However, for shear intuitive workflow, nothing beats it, IMO. I feel like it's the first soft synth to completely do away with trying to replicate hardware, and develop a very intuitive computer-centric workflow. The beauty is you're doing exactly the same things as hardware, the same routing, but it's designed to be fast and easy to use with a screen and mouse. Being a fairly early wavetable soft synth, long before Serum, Zebra, Pigments, or the rest (which all take some heavy influence from Massive), it's quite basic and not overwhelming. I still open it if I want to make a patch in a hurry. Pigments is becoming my goto these days, but it's got thousands of features and is sometimes very slow and deep to troubleshoot.

For someone just starting out, if you can get your hands on NI Massive, I highly recommend it.

 

[Al Coda]

for PC users ...

 

Messiah vs Repro.

 

Messiah is easy to control via MIDI and there are controller templates for several controllers available.

Repro sounds very good, but Messiah does too and for way less money.

 

 

A.C.

 

 

[RABid]

On 12/23/2022 at 9:48 PM, KuruPrionz said:

Surge is free and everything is a slider. There are no "knobs".

That makes it easy to see where things are at a glance. 

I also recommend SurgeXT. Free. Deep. Being maintained by a group of programmers who keep putting out updates. Easy interface with lots of options like filter configuration that not only changes filter type, but also the arrangement of filters and oscillators.

 

 

[Stokely]

I remember trying Surge but I disliked the look, a lot (tiny rasterized graphics on higher resolutions is what I remember).  That above looks way better than I remember, and looks flatter/vector, did they update it?  I might be thinking of something else I guess.

Interesting Messiah/Repro vid above.   Sounded dry, which is a good way to compare the basic sound.  That said,  one thing that is handy about Repro is that it has some really excellent effects that I've never felt I needed to take off (in favor of using dedicated plugins).  Other than reverb, which I do tend to remove from most synth patches since I typically might not want a ton of different reverbs all combining in the mix.

I'll mention Vital, which has a free version and is excellent.  However, it's wavetable and not subtractive.  

[felis]

GForce SEM is relatively simple to use and sounds absolutely gorgeous:

 

https://gforcesoftware.com/products/sem/

 

Not free, but inexpensive for what it offers. 

There's a demo to try too, at the bottom of the page..

[EricBarker]

On 12/24/2022 at 3:03 PM, Ben One said:

Eric, as it so happens, I do have Massive (as part of a Komplete 13 crossgrade) and I'm checking it out now. I do like its interface. What exactly was the original one? Was it released in the mid-2000s? How was the original better, out of curiosity.

Ben

 

Massive X is a different synth from Massive. Yes, it has some overlap, but they made some strange choices and removed quite a bit from the original.

 

Original Massive was a good solid analog subtractive synth, but a weak wavetable synth. The up-side is that for someone just starting out, or more interested in traditional analog tones (like me), it’s a more straightforward choice than something like Serum which is an extraordinary wavetable synth that’s a bit too far away from 70s synth sounds.

 

Massive X was NIs response to the success of Serum, but they kind of screwed up. It’s still a weak wavetable synth (tho it’s better than the original), but they needlessly pulled many of the features that made the original great. The upside is that the oscillators sound even more analog than the original, but they axed one of the 3, and shaved the filter section down. So Massive X literally can’t do some of the things Massive could, WTF?!

 

I’m just less familiar with MassiveX because I haven’t had a large desire to use it. For really rich analog tones I use Diva, or my hardware PolyD. But again, I don’t recommend Diva for absolute beginners. I still use Massive if I want a specific sound in a big hurry.

 

BTW: if you want REAL analog hands-on experience, just get yourself a Behringer Model D (or a Poly D if you insist on having a keyboard, as I do). There’s literally nothing better than hands on knobs for learning this shit!

[Al Coda]

6 hours ago, Stokely said:

Interesting Messiah/Repro vid above.   Sounded dry, which is a good way to compare the basic sound.  That said,  one thing that is handy about Repro is that it has some really excellent effects that I've never felt I needed to take off (in favor of using dedicated plugins).

 

Nothing against Repro !

But Messiah comes w/ usable FX too.

 

I don´t use Repro because it´s way too CPU hungry on my laptop,- and I don´t see that much sonic differences justifying that difference in CPU load.

OTOH, it´s still a candidate to buy,- once it´s CLAP format and lighter on CPU.

 

 

A.C.

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

Nothing against Repro !

But Messiah comes w/ usable FX too.

 

I don´t use Repro because it´s way too CPU hungry on my laptop,- and I don´t see that much sonic differences justifying that difference in CPU load.

OTOH, it´s still a candidate to buy,- once it´s CLAP format and lighter on CPU.

 

 

A.C.

I didn’t know you’d picked up the CLAP, Al!?

What host are you using?  Have you found enough CLAP format plugins to meet your needs and desires? 

[Tusker]

Thinking of the needs of the OP. I wondered what topics a synth should be required to teach …

 

1) Oscillators, waveforms, pitch and detuning

2) Filters, frequency subtraction, resonance

3) Control systems (ADSRs and LFOs)

4) Oscillator modification techniques (pulsewidth modulation, sync and FM)

 

That’s all!
 

Everything else (from chorus to ring modulation to delays to comb filtering) is actually the infinite field of “audio engineering” right? I think it helps to know what it is you already have skills in, and then plug any small gaps you feel you have. Hopefully you will make this process easy on yourself. 

 

 

[Al Coda]

10 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I didn’t know you’d picked up the CLAP, Al!?

What host are you using?  Have you found enough CLAP format plugins to meet your needs and desires? 

 

There´s no CLAP for Messiah as also not for Repro a.t.m..

But I´m pretty sure CLAP will come for ALL U-He plugins near future.

u-he comunity CLAP

 

SURGE XT mentioned above is available in CLAP format, some "Full Bucket Music" plugins too,- and a few other.

I tested about 12 synth plugins in CLAP format meanwhile and haven´t found any disadvantages vs. VST2.4 and VST3.

They all run well in Cockos Reaper which already supports CLAP.

Not all of the possible features though,- but it´s just the beginning.

In future, I don´t want crippled MIDI coming w/ VST3,- so CLAP is what I observe,- especially because it supports MIDI-2 and per note modulations.

Some is still theory on paper because both, host and plugins have to support identical features to make ´em work.

Out of all I tested, ODIN-2 was the only synth not responding to MIDI Prg.-Ch. commands,- the others did.

That alone is important for me.

 

 

A.C.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, Al Coda said:

 

There´s no CLAP for Messiah as also not for Repro a.t.m..

But I´m pretty sure CLAP will come for ALL U-He plugins near future.

u-he comunity CLAP

 

SURGE XT mentioned above is available in CLAP format, some "Full Bucket Music" plugins too,- and a few other.

I tested about 12 synth plugins in CLAP format meanwhile and haven´t found any disadvantages vs. VST2.4 and VST3.

They all run well in Cockos Reaper which already supports CLAP.

Not all of the possible features though,- but it´s just the beginning.

In future, I don´t want crippled MIDI coming w/ VST3,- so CLAP is what I observe,- especially because it supports MIDI-2 and per note modulations.

Some is still theory on paper because both, host and plugins have to support identical features to make ´em work.

Out of all I tested, ODIN-2 was the only synth not responding to MIDI Prg.-Ch. commands,- the others did.

That alone is important for me.

 

 

A.C.

a few thoughts… 

 

some DAW devs have a tendency to differentiate themselves from each other with instruments and FX built into their coding - not in AU/VST/AAX format.  most of them have no motivation to support CLAP because most plug-in developers have to continue to offer AU/VST/AAX versions of their instruments and fx anyway.  So I’m not so certain the CLAP will come for us ALL! 😉
 

What did Steinberg do in VST3 that is worse for MIDI than in previous VST format?  

[Al Coda]

4 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

some DAW devs have a tendency to differentiate themselves from each other with instruments and FX built into their coding - not in AU/VST/AAX format.  most of them have no motivation to support CLAP because most plug-in developers have to continue to offer AU/VST/AAX versions of their instruments and fx anyway.  So I’m not so certain the CLAP will come for us ALL!

 

 

Have you seen the list of manufacturers already supporting and/or evaluating CLAP ?

Arturia is in the ballpark p.ex.,- and together w/ U-he,- that alone already covers a lot of ground for keyboardplayers.

 

It´s simply a licensing thing.

Yamaha/Steinberg forces developers to use VST3 SDK and many aren´t happy w/ this, last but no least because as the VST monopolist, Yamaha/Steinberg sets the terms how a VST plugin has to be designed and which features are necessary for users.

For me, it doesn´t matter if Yamaha/Steinberg has no interest in supporting CLAP,- just because I´m done w/ ´em and their business model anyway.

 

I can imagine others will support CLAP because when doing it, it doesn´t mean not supporting the other formats anymore.

It seems to be fast and relatively simple porting DSP code over to CLAP.

 

4 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

What did Steinberg do in VST3 that is worse for MIDI than in previous VST format?

 

They brake MIDI standard.

VST3 not supporting MIDI Program Change commands is one of the most idiotic decisions ever made.

This is an important feature since MIDI exists and when it´s gone, you have to buy and use special live hosts, faster machines, way more RAM and such.

My demands are different.

 

 

A.C.

[ElmerJFudd]

16 minutes ago, Al Coda said:

 

 

Have you seen the list of manufacturers already suppiorting and/or evaluating CLAP ?

Arturia is in the ballpark p.ex.,- and together w/ U-he,- that alone already covers a lot of ground for keyboardplayers.

 

It´s simply a licensing thing.

Yamaha/Steinberg forces developers to use VST3 SDK and many aren´t happy w/ this, last but no least because as the VST monopolist, Yamaha/Steinberg sets the terms how a VST plugin has to be designed and which features are necessary for users.

For me, it doesn´t matter if Yamaha/Steinberg has no interest in supporting CLAP,- just because I´m done w/ ´em and their business model anyway.

 

I can imagine others will support CLAP because when doing it, it doesn´t mean not supporting the other formats anymore.

It seems to be fast and relatively simple porting DSP code over to CLAP.

 

 

They brake MIDI standard.

VST3 not supporting MIDI Program Change commands is one of the most idiotic decisions ever made.

This is an important feature since MIDI exists and when it´s gone, you have to buy and use special live hosts, faster machines, way more RAM and such.

My demands are different.

 

 

A.C.

It will be an uphill battle for most/all plug-in devs to support another format until the most widely used hosts are onboard to support it.  Ableton, FL Studio, Logic, Cubase, DP, Reason.  But I wish them well as that’s how progress is made.  At the very least it brings attention to what’s lacking in the other formats - for plug-in developers and for end users.

 

[CEB]

Nothing to add.  Just listen to Tusker and Al Coda.

 

But ... in the future if you want to explore modular I liked  Sonigen Modular a lot.   However I can't find their webpage.  I don't know if it is still supported or not.  But for a free VST I liked it a lot.