Casio CT-S1 vs CT-S400 for a kid (and myself)

[CyberGene]

I am considering one of these two for my 5 year old daughter who doesn't play any instrument (nor has a desire to do so) but loves singing and is very musical. The boomer in me (well, I'm not a boomer, I'm an X-er on the border with millennials) says that having rhythms in a keyboard is the root of all evil and kids should practice their scales! 😠 But who am I kidding, she has a mind of her own and she used to love playing my MODX6 for the sequenced techno patches only. Hence, the S400. But then, I doubt she will want to play keyboards at all, it's just not her thing IMO, she's more interested in singing. With that in mind, I think the decision should be to choose a keyboard that can (eventually) serve me, hence the CT-S1. But then again, I have some serious stuff like an AvantGrand N1X, CP88, Hydrasynth... so why on earth would I need some toyish Casio? 🧐 Maybe I should really get the S400 for the kid and hope she will spend 1-2 minutes a week with its rhythms rather than totally reject the S1. Choices...

 

Any opinions?

[Mike Martin]

I have both here. The CT-S1 is the one I gravitate towards more. Something about its simplicity and immediacy of the CT-S1 is so great and addictive. I'd also say about 1/3rd of the CT-S1 tones are unique and you won't find them in the CT-S400. This includes things like the string machines, mellotron flutes, the classic Casio sounds and more including variations on the pianos and other sounds too. In terms of sounds that YOU will use, I think you'd find the CT-S1 more attractive.  
 

[CyberGene]

7 minutes ago, Mike Martin said:

I have both here. The CT-S1 is the one I gravitate towards more. Something about its simplicity and immediacy of the CT-S1 is so great and addictive. I'd also say about 1/3rd of the CT-S1 tones are unique and you won't find them in the CT-S400. This includes things like the string machines, mellotron flutes, the classic Casio sounds and more including variations on the pianos and other sounds too. In terms of sounds that YOU will use, I think you'd find the CT-S1 more attractive.  
 

 

Thanks, that's very helpful. Actually I miss Solina strings on my CP88, so even for that patch alone it may be useful to have a CT-S1 as an (occasionally used) second keyboard.

[Krakit]

I have a CT-S1 myself. I bought it to have something battery operated to play outdoors for fun. 

I am very happy with the presets it has and got mine in red so I can be like the cool Nord kids.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

If you're okay with upping the budget a little, the CT-S500 kind of gives you both, in that unlike the S400, it does include (I'm pretty sure) all the sounds of the S1. Different aesthetics, 4 banks of 4 buttons available for single-button favorite patch recall instead of one bank of 7, a hair heavier... I'm not sure what other trade-offs there might be, those are the only ones that jump out at me...

[Krakit]

In the same ballpark price wise you can get a Roland Go Keys. I have this board as well and I adore the sounds for the price. Also battery operated. 

[Mike Martin]

16 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

If you're okay with upping the budget a little, the CT-S500 kind of gives you both, in that unlike the S400, it does include (I'm pretty sure) all the sounds of the S1. Different aesthetics, 4 banks of 4 buttons available for single-button favorite patch recall instead of one bank of 7, a hair heavier... I'm not sure what other trade-offs there might be, those are the only ones that jump out at me...

The Bluetooth Audio / MIDI Adapter is included. It also has 1/4" audio outputs, expression pedal input, editable effects and other real-time control.

[CyberGene]

Well, that S500 actually looks pretty good for the price. Might even be usable for (semi) serious occasions.

[AnotherScott]

29 minutes ago, Mike Martin said:

The Bluetooth Audio / MIDI Adapter is included. It also has 1/4" audio outputs, expression pedal input, editable effects and other real-time control.

Yup, there are definitely numerous CT-S500 advantages, I was just talking about the trade-offs... that is, the reasons one could conceivably prefer the S1 over the S500. But there's clearly a bunch to gain. :-)

[stoken6]

59 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

If you're okay with upping the budget a little, the CT-S500 kind of gives you both, in that unlike the S400, it does include (I'm pretty sure) all the sounds of the S1. Different aesthetics, 4 banks of 4 buttons available for single-button favorite patch recall instead of one bank of 7, a hair heavier... I'm not sure what other trade-offs there might be, those are the only ones that jump out at me...

1/4in outputs and expression pedal input on the 500, not the 400. Those are the big differences for me. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[CyberGene]

At €235 for the CT-S1 at a local music store versus €400 for the CT-S500 I'm more inclined toward the CT-S1 taking in mind it would also be easier to use both by my kid and myself 😀 I might go and test them today or tomorrow.

[D. Gauss]

i have both a ct-s1 and a ct-s1000v (same as cts-500 but has the silly vocorder). i also had a roland go-keys (which i could not sell fast enough, however a kid might like it...i just hated the floppy keys and the crap speakers).   i'd get the ct-s500, since it has all the beats and stuff that kids love. plus YOU can actually use it yourself if the kid bails. it's lotsa fun.  (now if only they would let you name the damn registrations...)

[time4jazz]

If this is merely a plot to get a new toy for yourself, then it should work by giving a keyboard to a 5 year old and telling her it is to be used for playing scales 😀.  On a more serious note …, maybe she (given her existing interest) might actually develop some interest in a keyboard if you could show her how she could play some simple chords to back herself up when singing? If so, this might also help guide the choice of which one to get. 

[Old No7]

In that same price range -- "why not" get the Yamaha EW-310 and gain an extra octave+ of keys?

 

It has 76, which is much better for most piano pieces than just 61.

 

Old No7

[CyberGene]

I went to test some keyboards today. Unfortunately none was displayed for demo, only closed boxes. There was however a Roland Go:Piano which I tested and the keyboard was awful, very springy, 90% of the notes I played were silent... But seeing it in front of me I decided that 5 octaves is just too much, the keyboard is too big and heavy for a kid to haul it around the house. Which is why I started looking at very simple and cheap kid keyboards and I almost purchased a very basic Casiotone SA-50 for €68 (no touch sensitive keyboard) but then I noticed there was a similar Yamaha PSS-A50 that has 3 octaves with touch sensitive keys and discounted at €75, a quick search on the Internet assured it has the same keyboard as the reface (I owned a CP and a CS and the keys were pretty nice) but also on the box there is "USB MIDI" advertised which sealed the deal. Haven't opened it yet, but how bad can a €75 keyboard with touch sensitive keys and USB MIDI be? 😀

 

P.S. The Yamaha is great for a kid IMO. The touch response of the mini keys is excellent, the piano sound is OK, other sounds are passable too, there are arpeggios (including drum ones, hence rhythms), there’s a simple recorder. It’s very lightweight, compact and stylish. I know I’m digressing from my original question but I think this A50 is a pretty good starter keyboard for a small kid. Hopefully my daughter would agree 😀 BTW, it is USB powered and it supports MIDI, so it can be used as a mobile MIDI controller. It even sends control changes from its buttons as well as program changes. No sustain pedal input though. And no pitch bend or modulation. (Actually there’s a button called “motion effect” that can trigger various selectable  things such as pitch bend slides, filter cutoff movements, modulations, etc. It’s an on/off switch and so the movement length and depth are preprogrammed but nevertheless it sends the corresponding CC through MIDI). 

[stoken6]

On 11/29/2022 at 9:21 AM, CyberGene said:

Yamaha PSS-A50 that has 3 octaves with touch sensitive keys and discounted at €75, a quick search on the Internet assured it has the same keyboard as the reface

The Reface action is actually quite nice (given the mini-key limitation). At €75, it's almost an impulse buy. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[DaveMcM]

I purchased a ct-s1000v for quick in/quick out rehearsals. I could do without the vocal synthesis section, neat idea but totally useless to me. Other than that, I love this little thing! It comes with a Bluetooth adapter that allows audio from my iPhone to play through the onboard speakers (which are not bad at all). I have iRealPro which will play a rhythm section based on the chart you are viewing. The three knobs are assignable to all sorts of parameters, registrations store splits/layers/knob assignments, effects, etc. The keyboard is very playable and quiet. The home page is customizable to the parameters that you find most useable. In many settings, the sounds are plenty good enough to use live. Next week I have a fill-in gig with an acoustic guitar trio and I’m planning on just taking the ct-s1000v. In a nutshell, get the ct-s500.

[stoken6]

7 minutes ago, DaveMcM said:

I purchased a ct-s1000v for quick in/quick out rehearsals. I could do without the vocal synthesis section

You should have got the CT-S500?

7 minutes ago, DaveMcM said:

In a nutshell, get the ct-s500

That taught me a lesson - read to the end of the post.

 

Joking aside, the CTS500 has useful gigging features for a budget board. A CTS888 that adds organ model (instead of vocal synthesis) to the CTS500 would be a winner.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[DaveMcM]

5 hours ago, stoken6 said:

You should have got the CT-S500?

That taught me a lesson - read to the end of the post.

 

Joking aside, the CTS500 has useful gigging features for a budget board. A CTS888 that adds organ model (instead of vocal synthesis) to the CTS500 would be a winner.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 I probably would have gotten the ct-s500 had it been in stock at the time. But for a little more $ I thought the vocal synth stuff might be fun to mess around with, turns out not really.

 

Speaking of organ, there's no way I'll compare the organ sounds with a drawbar Hammond clone, but some of the organs are not that bad. And the rotary speaker effect isn't bad either. Certainly not going to do an organ gig with it, but for basic background chordal stuff it'll work in a pinch.

 

Another really cool thing is the way some of the patches work. On some electric piano and acoustic guitar sounds and maybe others, if you pay 1 to 3 keys, you only get the selected sound. But as soon as you play 4 or more keys, a nice pad appears under the main sound. So you could play a chord with your left hand which could be a Rhodes or acoustic guitar sound with a pad, and solo over top while just hearing the main sound.

[pjd]

Got to agree, the Casio CT-S1000V is a pretty decent budget board. I prefer its keybed over MODX!

 

Roland GO:KEYS is one of the very few keyboards that I ever returned. The keys are horrible. Although the basic tone engine is good, I got bored of the loops right quick.

 

The PSS-A50 is a lot of fun and good modder fodder, too:

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/pss-a50-midi-mod/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-pss-a50-stereo-mod/

 

Here's a few other posts that might be of interest to PSS-A50 people:

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-pss-a50-midi-notes/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-pss-a50-motion-effects/

 

All the best -- pj
 

[pjd]

1 hour ago, Jazz1642606857 said:

Didn’t they put a better Piano 1 in the CT-S1 than the other CT models?  

 

I like my CT-S1 and use it quite a bit around home.

 

Hi --

 

The CT-S500 and CT-S1000V include all of the new instruments in the CT-S1. They are a superset. The 500/1000V display, assignable knobs and editable DSP effects sold me. All are fun instruments for not much $$$.

 

-- pj

 

[RandyFF]

Sounds like the OP has come up with a solution for now.  Here’s more food for thought as your child grows:

- find one that has a microphone input with reverb, kids LOVE singing in the microphone!

- find a model with BT audio so she can stream singalong songs as she sings in the mic

 

But for a keyboard that you’d be able to use as well as a backup for gigs, going to rehearsals, a lightweight top board in a 2 board set-up, etc., here are some further thoughts:

 

Having bought a half dozen cheapie keyboards under $500 since 2000, I really enjoy the substantial increase in sound quality that is available now, many/most sounds in the past were uninspiring, not decent at all.  

 

Last year I bought the $500 Casio CT-X5000, which I believe was one of the first ones to feature Casios new Aix sound chip.  I got it in large part cause it featured 30w of speaker power, they really sound good and can get quite loud.  Many of the sounds were decent, and I like the main piano sound.  That said, I wouldn’t have guessed  how much sound quality and volume these little 5w models put out, another very pleasant surprise.

 

But if I was to make this purchase again I would get the CT-S400 instead of the CT-X5000 because:

- the S500 has 3 mod knobs!  Yes!  As a controller this is obviously great.

 

- as a top board in a 2 board setup, the key action is decent, and it has BT MIDI and an Aux in!  That’s huge, for getting sounds from a laptop/iPad, it makes it so easy: BT MIDI has no noticeable latency, and so you just need an 1/8th” to 1/8th” cable from the iPad to the Aux in and you’ve got the B-3X on tap!  Given the decent keybed, this is huge.

 

- the X5000 is not a couch/bed board, no battery option, it weighs 15 lbs instead of 10 like most of these other boards, and is the old style 15” deep, unlike these boards mentioned that are 10” deep

 

 

Now that I’ve researched for this post, I will probably sell my CT-X5000 and buy a CT-S500!

 

 

 

[Tom Bear]

Hello together

 

Thank you to everyone who has already contributed so much information to this thread on the topic of CT-S1 vs CT-S400.

 

I am in a very similar situation to the OP: I am looking for a small device with two main functions:
1. for myself (piano beginner) I am looking for a device to practice piano when we are on holiday (at home I have a PX-S1000)
2. for my son (9 years old), I am looking for an uncomplicated device that he can use to discover making music with a keyboard instrument in a playful way

 

The first goal, practicing piano during the holidays, I could probably cover quite well with the Casio CT-S1, as I would only really need the main piano sound. The second goal, however, is more in favor of the CT-S400 from my point of view, as it has more sounds, rhythms and accompaniment. This could fascinate my boy more and for longer.

 

My question now is: If I go for the CT-S400 with my boy in mind, what am I missing out on if I really only want to practice piano with the main piano sound?
- Reduced polyphony (48 vs 64)
- looks a little less like a digital piano
- anything else?

 

The keyboard seems to be identical. The sound system/speaker also seems to be identical. But what about the main piano sound (Grand Piano)? Is it really absolutely identical on both instruments? Or does the sample of the CT-S1 offer more details/resolution or velocity layers compared to the CT-S400? I could imagine that the CT-S400 had to save a lot of memory per sound because of the large number of sounds. Or is the main piano sound really absolutely identical?

 

Thank you very much for your information and thoughts. I'm very glad for your thoughts. 🙂  

 

Tom

[stoken6]

@Tom BearCould you stretch to the CT-S500? That has (if I remember correctly) the voices from the CT-S1, plus arranger features, PLUS (and this is the big one) pro-level features such as 1/4in audio outputs and an expression input. If your son ever wants forms his first band, the CT-S500 is ready to gig.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Tom Bear]

Thanks Mike for pointing out the CT-S500. 👍

 

I know this model and think that it is technically the best device (Bluetooth included, better polyphony, the good sound of the CT-S1, outputs, etc.) and that I could well afford it and that it is worth the price. I therefore almost feel a bit "guilty" when I say that I just don't like the look of the device at all (too many buttons and knobs, too many colours, etc.). For my boy, the CT-S500 would certainly be the best device. For me, that is, for pure piano practice, it's just too technical and too distracting. But I know that this can be seen as a "snobbish" argument. 😄

[Paulyl]

On 11/29/2022 at 8:21 PM, CyberGene said:

I went to test some keyboards today. Unfortunately none was displayed for demo, only closed boxes. There was however a Roland Go:Piano which I tested and the keyboard was awful, very springy, 90% of the notes I played were silent... But seeing it in front of me I decided that 5 octaves is just too much, the keyboard is too big and heavy for a kid to haul it around the house. Which is why I started looking at very simple and cheap kid keyboards and I almost purchased a very basic Casiotone SA-50 for €68 (no touch sensitive keyboard) but then I noticed there was a similar Yamaha PSS-A50 that has 3 octaves with touch sensitive keys and discounted at €75, a quick search on the Internet assured it has the same keyboard as the reface (I owned a CP and a CS and the keys were pretty nice) but also on the box there is "USB MIDI" advertised which sealed the deal. Haven't opened it yet, but how bad can a €75 keyboard with touch sensitive keys and USB MIDI be? 😀

 

P.S. The Yamaha is great for a kid IMO. The touch response of the mini keys is excellent, the piano sound is OK, other sounds are passable too, there are arpeggios (including drum ones, hence rhythms), there’s a simple recorder. It’s very lightweight, compact and stylish. I know I’m digressing from my original question but I think this A50 is a pretty good starter keyboard for a small kid. Hopefully my daughter would agree 😀 BTW, it is USB powered and it supports MIDI, so it can be used as a mobile MIDI controller. It even sends control changes from its buttons as well as program changes. No sustain pedal input though. And no pitch bend or modulation. (Actually there’s a button called “motion effect” that can trigger various selectable  things such as pitch bend slides, filter cutoff movements, modulations, etc. It’s an on/off switch and so the movement length and depth are preprogrammed but nevertheless it sends the corresponding CC through MIDI). 

I think the Yamaha PSS - A50 is one of Yamaha most under rated and yet superbly designed take anywhere keyboard.  In fact, I wish Casio copy its design and implemented in Casio CTS-1.  In the hand of a pro, Yamaha PSS A-50 is such a cool keyboard and mini controller. Despite having no pitch and modulation wheel and arranger functions, its well chosen selection of patches, motion effects, arppeggios, it can create wonderful tracks. The phrase recorder (looper) to me is more useful than track recorder.  Nowadays it is easier to sequence music with DAW on a phone or table anyway.

 

To see how's done. Check out the videos here:

 

 

Also check out all his Casio CTS-1 performance: