Advice on Rhodes, Clav and drums plugins on sale

[Reezekeys]

Regarding Native Access, I've only had to run it when installing sample libraries I bought. Type in the serial #, quit & done until the next sample package. I think Kontakt is AS native now too.

[KuruPrionz]

37 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Regarding Native Access, I've only had to run it when installing sample libraries I bought. Type in the serial #, quit & done until the next sample package. I think Kontakt is AS native now too.

Yep, Native Access is a simple installer and can be used to install sample libraries from other vendors. I installed Array Mbira from Soniccouture on Kontakt Player using Native Access. It's not intrusive, I think some potential users shy away from things that they don't understand but it's pretty much harmless. 

Kontakt is Apple Silicon Native as a host but not all the plugins it hosts are ASN, some will need Rosetta 2 to run or go back to System 10. 

We are not "there" yet with the M1 chip. 

 

It looks to me like we will end up either freezing one computer and running old stuff on it or abandoning some plugins and moving on to the new stuff. 

This is no different than any other computer progression and I'd hate to have to go back to the "good old days" personally. 

 

In the end, it's helping me thin down my plugin selection to the best things, many of those are newer. Imagine that, progress!!!! 😃

[Reezekeys]

8 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Kontakt is Apple Silicon Native as a host but not all the plugins it hosts are ASN, some will need Rosetta 2 to run or go back to System 10. 

 

AFAIK Kontakt hosts NI and 3rd-party sample libraries, not plugins. I've never heard any of these libraries being described as Intel or AS native - they're samples, scripting, and UI elements.

 

Can you give me an example of a sample library that uses Rosetta 2 to run inside the current AS-native Kontakt?

[BenWaB3]

Somehow, I always end up going back to Neo-Soul after trying all the others. As of a couple days ago I even came back to it after the GSI Gemini sound module, which has some great sounds and I like the pure tone of the GSI better but I can't get the velocity settings to keep it from barking too easily, or in the case of the GSI "hard knock" might be a more appropriate term. As a previous poster had stated, you have to really get down into the nits & gnats of the Neo-Soul to get it to sound the way you want it, but it really does have a lot of programmability. I still can't get the Neo-Soul clavinet to have the same dig as the GSI. The only problem is (with iOS anyway) I still experience some hiccups playing note passages on the Neo-Soul. It will just choke for a split second & then continue playing as it should. Anyway, that's just my opinion & we all know what they say about opinions 😃

[Reezekeys]

20 minutes ago, BenWaB3 said:

The only problem is (with iOS anyway) I still experience some hiccups playing note passages on the Neo-Soul. It will just choke for a split second & then continue playing as it should. Anyway, that's just my opinion & we all know what they say about opinions 😃

 

I'm surprised to hear about notes "choking" like this because I'm using a 6-year old original iPhone SE running AUM, hosting six instruments along with a few EQs and a reverb. I'm able to layer several of these instruments (like rhodes or acoustic piano with strings, or a brass pad) without any artifacts, at a 128-sample buffer setting. I use the Scarbee rhodes in Korg Module. Its stock velocity response is unplayable (for me) and can't be adjusted when it's an AUv3, but there are ways around that (I use a Streambyter script but Midiflow lets you program a curve too). Is your i-device older than mine, or are you running a lot of other things simultaneously?

[drawback]

I’ve never had NSKS2 choke either - I wonder what’s up?

[KuruPrionz]

3 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

AFAIK Kontakt hosts NI and 3rd-party sample libraries, not plugins. I've never heard any of these libraries being described as Intel or AS native - they're samples, scripting, and UI elements.

 

Can you give me an example of a sample library that uses Rosetta 2 to run inside the current AS-native Kontakt?

I stand corrected and glad for the knowledge. Now that I think on it even my 10+ year old NI Studio Drummer works in Kontakt Player. It doesn't work on it's own, like a plugin. To be honest, I don't have Kontakt, I have Kontakt Player which apparently is not as robust. So anything I could say may not hold true for Kontakt. That said, it has virtually every feature (MODO has more drum kits and more parameters for customizing drums) that IK MODO Drum has and that is a stand-alone plug-in as well as working inside of SampleTank. Weird. 

 

I have had some strange complexities trying to get Soniccouture Array Mbira to run in Kontakt Player but they may be due to the strange MIDI system that comes with the Fishman Triple Play system. I haven't tried it with a keyboard, although I have one. I'm not adept at keys, yet (probably ever, I just love to play guitar).

 

I guess I'll just sit on the sidelines and hope to learn! Sometimes tossing something out like I did above gets me an answer I would not have otherwise so thanks for that! 😇

[CyberGene]

Can anyone confirm whether Scarbee works in Kontakt Player? Also, which Scarbee do you mean because I see there are different versions.

 

P.S. So, currently Scarbee EP-88S is 50% off for €49.50 on the Scarbee website and is listed as Kontakt Player supported:

https://scarbee.com/products/scarbee-classic-ep-88s

 

However there's also Native Instruments: Scarbee Vintage Keys currently for €74.50 (includes three instruments: SCARBEE MARK I, A-200, CLAVINET & PIANET) which is also listed as Kontakt Player supported:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keys/scarbee-vintage-keys/

 

I'm interested in Rhodes only and so I'm ok with the original Scarbee one but I'm wondering if maybe the NI one is somehow better (updated)?

 

P.P.S. Actually NI also sell the Mark I only for €34.50:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keys/scarbee-mark-1/

[CyberGene]

OK, I purchased the Scarbee one since I read it's the latest and greatest (5+ GB) whereas the NI is based on an older version of Scarbee. Now downloading it and it asked me to install a special downloader... Nowadays everyone requires additional software but hopefully I can remove all that cr*p once I have the samples running in the Kontakt Player. Can I delete the Native Access once I have installed Kontakt Player?

 

P.S. Geeez! Native Access is now installing a process calle NTKDAemon.app and macOS shows this:

 

I knew it I shouldn't install that cr*p, that's what I'm talking about. Why do I have to install a background process?!

[Reezekeys]

[edit - crossposted! You didn't wait too long for replies to your original query! 🙂 ]

 

Scarbee EP-88S is the update to their original rhodes. I'm pretty sure Scarbee ended their agreement with NI which is why the EP-88S isn't sold on the NI website, but the original rhodes (along with other earlier Scarbee products) is.

 

The "original" rhodes I refer to is the one you reference - the MkI sold on the NI website, and currently available at half price ($34.50 US, looks to be the same in Euros). That's the same price I paid when I got it two years ago. It most definitely works in Kontakt Player.

 

"Scarbee Vintage Keys" is just a package that includes the aforementioned Mark I rhodes along with their Wurli ("A-200"), a clavinet, and a "pianet" (an older keyboard I'm not familiar with). If you already have a Wurli and Clav then save your money. If not, IMO these are "oldies but goodies", I think they sound fine but the UI might seem simple and dated. I don't let that affect my opinion - if it sounds good and feels good under my fingers then I don't care about that other stuff.

 

44 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I'm interested in Rhodes only and so I'm ok with the original Scarbee one but I'm wondering if maybe the NI one is somehow better (updated)?

 

You have it backwards. the NI Scarbee Rhodes is the older one; the Scarbee-branded EP88S is the update. I think they're pretty close in sound myself and may even share the same sample set (or at least some of the same samples). The EP88S has a nicer UI and what looks like a more varied set of presets. I've used both and IMO the original MkI sold by NI works fine for me and is well worth the sale price.

[CyberGene]

@Reezekeysthanks for the heads-up. I purchased the Scarbee branded one, the "EP88S", just tested it, sounds perfect ❤️ They offer the following comparison table:

 

On the NI website they say they are based on Mark I, and not on EP-88S, so despite being the cheapest option, the NI one is older and I'm glad I didn't purchase it by mistake.

 

As a positive note to installing Kontakt Player 7, I managed to import my Vintage D library that is a nice Steinway sound I used to love in the past. My main piano is now the Garritan CFX though but more variety won't hurt.

[drawback]

CyberGene, glad you bought the EP88. I don't know if you have an 88 controller, but having the extra sampled notes and newer interface is worth the extra in price. Sounds fine on my setup, but I still prefer Canterbury 😉

 

Enjoy!

[Steve Nathan]

I still think for Wurlies, no one beats AcousticSamples Vreeds and (earlier) Wurly for realism and joy of playability.  I am also fond of Vtines for Rhodes, but also own and like  the Famous E and Arturia's Stage-73V and sometimes combine all three in order to focus on the strengths of each (which don't overlap imho).  For Clav, I don't think anyone beats Soniccouture's.  FWIW:  I wouldn't know if Pianoteq has updated their Rhodes from version 7 to 8, but I was really surprised at how much I liked their default Rhodes presets in 8.  Might need some extra sauce from time to time, but you can buy Pianoteq Stage for a hundred bucks right now and choose the EPs and a really nice Steinway D.  

[Steve Nathan]

Oh, and you asked about drums. I have several, but I'm still happiest with Toontrack's Superior Drummer, and find their EasyPlayer makes creating and editing tracks super simple.  They also have a lots of kits and midi options for fairly reasonable prices.  

[Reezekeys]

3 hours ago, CyberGene said:

@Reezekeysthanks for the heads-up. I purchased the Scarbee branded one, the "EP88S", just tested it, sounds perfect ❤️ They offer the following comparison table:

 

So apparently there are a few differences between the versions! 🙂 Nice. I'm good with the older MkI sound and don't miss the additional layers, but the EP88s is definitely a step above. Sounds like you're enjoying it. I remember there being some great-sounding presets.

 

4 hours ago, CyberGene said:

P.S. Geeez! Native Access is now installing a process calle NTKDAemon.app and macOS shows this:

 

I knew it I shouldn't install that cr*p, that's what I'm talking about. Why do I have to install a background process?!

 

AFAIK this keeps track of your installations when you run Native Access and connect to NI's servers. I'm not sure it's actually running when you're just using Kontakt Player or any other app. If you open Activity Monitor you can see how many processes are already running in your computer. I have 347 processes going with only Activity Monitor and Safari active. The large majority of those processes are using 0% CPU, and all but four of the others are using less than 1% each! I really don't think there's anything nefarious going on here.

 

Your warning sounds like a generic MacOS alert that Apple added as an "FYI." (I've never seen that but my MacOS is old - 10.14). Any daemon can run in the background (I'm pretty sure they're designed to do that, that's why they're daemons!), but only a launch daemon loads automatically every time you boot your computer. I just checked and NTKDAemon.app isn't running on my system.

[RABid]

I've used Scarbee for years with no complaints, but today I did order the XLN Audio Addictive Keys Trio Bundle which has a Rhodes. I really like their Addictive Drums 2 and can recommend it. In addition XLN has wonderful customer service and is very quick to respond. Also picked up the newer XO drum machine from XLN. Just waiting for everything to download. Most everything I get from them is either Black Friday deals or Gearfest deals. I like half price sales.

[BenWaB3]

Reezekeys wrote:

 

<<I'm surprised to hear about notes "choking" like this because I'm using a 6-year old original iPhone SE running AUM, hosting six instruments along with a few EQs and a reverb. I'm able to layer several of these instruments (like rhodes or acoustic piano with strings, or a brass pad) without any artifacts, at a 128-sample buffer setting. I use the Scarbee rhodes in Korg Module. Its stock velocity response is unplayable (for me) and can't be adjusted when it's an AUv3, but there are ways around that (I use a Streambyter script but Midiflow lets you program a curve too). Is your i-device older than mine, or are you running a lot of other things simultaneously? >>

 

Also drawback wrote:

 

<<I’ve never had NSKS2 choke either - I wonder what’s up?>>

 

It's an iPad Pro 4th version that I've had about 3 years (or however long ago they came out). I experienced it again last night on the job. It will be playing fine & then when I hit some notes it will be silent for maybe a 10th of a second or more then everything will come back, often with every key I had hit in the silence mashed up together & then continue to play fine until the next hiccup. I've tried setting the buffer at 64 or 128 ms so there isn't too much latency. Maybe I should try 256 & see if the latency is too noticeable. The only other app I had open was Cubasis 3 but only used it on two songs. The rest was purely live playing. I don't want to derail the thread here though so if anyone can point me to articles on how to maximize the efficiency on the iPad for music uses it will be appreciated, or I could start a new thread here on the forum to get this topic out of the main point of the thread. I did see there is an article from Sweetwater about that. It had mentioned going Airplane mode, which would probably help, but right now I'm using the Yamaha Bluetooth dongle to send data to the iPad. After this weekend I'll try to see if I can find an adapter that would allow me to go from the USB-B on the SKPro to the iPad & split out an audio connection. I can't escape the feeling though that there are ways to get the iPad tuned up to work better that I'm just too uninformed at this point to utilize. Thanks in advance

[Reezekeys]

I have my i-devices in airplane mode, also "do not disturb" is turned on, yet I can have either wifi or bluetooth on at the same time. You might want to try that. Airplane mode's main function, as I understand it, is to disable cellular data transmission & reception - so probably redundant on a non-cellular iPad, or an old iPhone without a SIM card. Still, I leave nothing to chance! Bluetooth and wifi are off on gigs since I don't need them (unless someone airdrops me a chart). I would also say that a 256 buffer is playable, if not ideal, of course that's imo - I would do as you mention though, give it a try.

[drawback]

I’d eliminate the Bluetooth dongle and see if the dropouts disappear. 
 

[BenWaB3]

Thanks for the replies, Reezekeys and drawback. Turning off WiFi & increasing the buffer size helped a lot. It only hiccupped a couple of times And hopefully trying the other suggestions will eliminate that entirely. Again, I don't want to derail the thread so will try to add something to the main point that it started out as:  

 

Neo-Soul is very versatile in what it can offer. Someone had said earlier they didn't like the Rhodes init. sound and I agree. Someone had also said it can be a lengthy process programming it & I agree about that also. You have to prepare to spend a long time in the Control section but that is where you can really change the character or tonal spectrum of the instruments. I still don't understand that section all that well but have been able to get some pretty close approximations. One other tip someone had said on a bygone thread is it seems to work best the fewer oscillators you put into the mix and I've also found if you can get your main body of sound out of just one oscillator it will sound much better. 2 oscillators, even though they may be tuned exactly the same seems to put a certain smudge to the finished sound. The effects can be your friend or foe, depending on how you have them set up. I have a lot to learn about that section but everything I learn there improves the finished product a few degrees. This is at least my third time, if not more, of coming back to Neo-Soul after trying other software or hardware options.

[KuruPrionz]

I don't recommend the Air Strike or Synthdrum 500 that are (were) on sale. 

I could not get Strike to install at all, either on my 2014 MacBook Pro or 2021 Mac Mini M1. I did download both files for Mac and I even emailed them inquiring politely on how to get Strike to install on a Mac. No reply as of yet. 

Meanwhile, I did install Synthdrum 500 successfully on my MacBook Pro. To say the inteface is overly complex would be a huge understatement. It's also tiny because there are so many options per drum and they include all 8 drums instead of letting you work in a much larger, open window and tweak one drum at a time (which is all you can do anyway). Moving along, I went through the presets and checked out some of the sounds. It wasn't what I wanted, maybe somebody likes it but not me.

 

At least the total price for both plugins was barely over $20. That made it easy to just delete them and move on. So it goes...

[Al Coda]

On 11/25/2022 at 8:03 PM, Reezekeys said:

the NI Scarbee Rhodes is the older one; the Scarbee-branded EP88S is the update. I think they're pretty close in sound myself and may even share the same sample set (or at least some of the same samples). The EP88S has a nicer UI and what looks like a more varied set of presets.

 

I now installed EP88S and Matrix expansion on the same machine runnlng Scarbee Mark I and Vintage keys in NI Komplete 12 Ultimate CE.

The sonic difference and playing experience is night & day.

I´m happy I pulled the trigger after I wasn´t too much satisfied w/ e-instruments session keys R and S.

My search for alternatives has an end now.

 

 

A.C.

[Stokely]

re: drums, I've been tempted by a few things this season, only bought one:

8dio's blackbird kit, which both my friend I got for 5 bucks with the "refer a friend" 15 dollars off.  The interface is probably the worst Kontakt instrument I've used and sound-wise it's...a bit odd.  I'm still going to try to tweak it in order to get my money's worth

Drum-drops has a big sale, I'm considering picking up one of the Kontakt packs for 20 dollars (50% off, this is the last day).

BFD3 is still a temptation, it's 49 dollars minus an extra 10% at JRR shop (not Tolkien!).   That's a LOT of value IF--big IF--the thing is stable on mac OS.  It's not M1 native but I still have an Intel mac--and it's unclear whether it ever will be so that's a concern for down the road.  I hate buggy stuff and the DRM is crap (very invasive and prone to locking people out of using it when it doesn't work.)

I intend to get Komplete Ultimate next summer so that has a few more drum kit options (abbey road kits) so this is hardly a super big need.  I've seen some vids and read posts that make me think Addictive Drums 2 would be comparable so I took that off the table (I do like XLN as a company though.)   I have 60s and Studio drummer now and they sound good, along with Moonkits from Soniccouture.    I sat down the other day and actually took some time to tweak a Logic kit (made up of various drums, I only like two kicks out of the bunch--the two with "Studio" in the name.)  It turned out surprisingly well, so that's another reason not to rush to "upgrade" when I already have something pretty decent.   If all I'm doing is a rough mockup of drums, the Logic drummer kits have the advantage of convenience, especially the producer kits which break out all the drums in a track stack.

[Reezekeys]

26 minutes ago, Al Coda said:

I now installed EP88S and Matrix expansion on the same machine runnlng Scarbee Mark I and Vintage keys in NI Komplete 12 Ultimate CE.

The sonic difference and playing experience is night & day.

 

I got ya, well maybe my memory isn't that good but I do remember thinking that when I took all the effects off and made the EQ flat, the EP88S's basic tone sounded quite similar to the MkI Scarbee. Obviously, given the difference in # of samples, with the additional layers, etc. I would expect a difference, and I remember the screen showing how your playing activates the layers and letting you adjust for best response. Glad you're happy with it! If I get the chance I'll revisit the EP88S and see how good or bad my memory is! 🙂 

[Paul Woodward]

Another shout for Scarbee in Korg Module, sounds great. I think Module is often underrated as a sound module. It’s quite versatile and sounds can really cut through a mix or live.