Do you think it’s important to practice technique on an acoustic piano?

[Montunoman 2]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

A Yamaha U1 or Kawai K3 or K300 are where I’d start my hunt.  A Yamaha b3 isn’t bad.  There is a noticeable tonal difference compared to the U1 due to some of the cut corners - but it retails for $3-4k less than a new U1.  I’d rather scour the region for the tier up second hand. 

Unfortunately I haven’t been able find either of those models on the used market, but keep looking. 
 

i did find this though, a Kawai 504 studio upright. 
 

 

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/msg/7545754509.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

20 minutes ago, Montunoman 2 said:

Unfortunately I haven’t been able find either of those models on the used market, but keep looking. 
 

i did find this though, a Kawai 504 studio upright. 
 

 

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/msg/7545754509.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go check it out!  You never know until you sit down at it and give it a play.  

[Outkaster]

On 11/25/2022 at 4:10 PM, cp-the-nerd said:

Owning and maintaining an acoustic piano isn't always realistic, and personally I don't like the sound of most upright pianos so there would be multiple hurdles in that situation. For what it's worth, I actually did grow up with some sort of well-worn spinet piano similar to Nord's Bambino Upright sample in tone which I liked quite a bit.

I think access to a good weighted keybed does most of the job there, creating a sense of percussion that a synth action just can't pull off. It's one of the reasons I kept my SV-1 88-key after getting my Electro 6D: it's a joy to play the hammer action and have a full 88-key spread. I also still like many of the analog-invoking warm sounds it produces.

I highly recommend owning something with hammer action, but not exclusively. Variety is a wonderful thing for the same reason I recommend against any sort of obsessive brand loyalty in keyboards. 

Right but for development you need a real piano. 

[cp-the-nerd]

7 hours ago, Outkaster said:

Right but for development you need a real piano. 

Nope.

[Outkaster]

15 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

Nope.

OK Prove me wrong?  What pro piano player classical or otherwise learned on a digital instrument. 

[Montunoman 2]

2 hours ago, Outkaster said:

OK Prove me wrong?  What pro piano player classical or otherwise learned on a digital instrument. 

I could be wrong but I think Joey  Alexander did. In my opinion we’ll see many more as we progress through this century.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-music-joey-alexander/piano-prodigy-joey-alexander-13-talks-about-second-album-idUSKCN11I217

[Outkaster]

20 minutes ago, Montunoman 2 said:

I could be wrong but I think Joey  Alexander did. In my opinion will see many more as we progress through this century.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-music-joey-alexander/piano-prodigy-joey-alexander-13-talks-about-second-album-idUSKCN11I217

 

That article isn't very conclusive. I don't agree.  I know a few classical pianists.  None of them are practicing on a digital guarantee it. 

[ElmerJFudd]

30 minutes ago, Montunoman 2 said:

I could be wrong but I think Joey  Alexander did. In my opinion will see many more as we progress through this century.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-music-joey-alexander/piano-prodigy-joey-alexander-13-talks-about-second-album-idUSKCN11I217

That could be, but I’m not so sure how long he was on it. He isn’t any longer, and his performance and recording schedule is most definitely on acoustic at this point.  
 

That said, I agree that with  increasing access to digital instruments and a reduction in access to acoustics, there will be players at all tiers of study eventually who began and spend a certain % of their time on digital instruments. 
 

That said, at some point in one’s piano keyboarding journey - as we are seeing in this thread - we get to a point where it would benefit us in the larger picture to have experience on an acoustic instrument.  For more advanced acoustic piano  technique(s), feel of the mechanism, pedaling, etc. But this isn’t important in all genres of music. It’s an exploration for those with interest in music that is historically acoustic. And the repertoire that’s best suited for acoustic instruments. This is something some teachers want to pass on and share with their most promising students. Whether or not we want to or are able to  take that journey with them is a different story. 

[Montunoman 2]

46 minutes ago, Outkaster said:

 

That article isn't very conclusive. I don't agree.  I know a few classical pianists.  None of them are practicing on a digital guarantee it. 

Yes, you’re right the article is not very conclusive, it just says he started on a  electronic keyboard, not sure how long before he went onto a grand piano. With his level of talent it probably doesn’t even matter. 

[Outkaster]

That's why it isn't a good example.  

[Montunoman 2]

44 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 

That said, I agree that with  increasing access to digital instruments and a reduction in access to acoustics, there will be players at all tiers of study eventually who began and spend a certain % of their time on digital instrument 

I think even most purists, even a classical  concert level pianist would agree a digital piano is better than no piano, at least for practice purposes. 
 

 

[Outkaster]

22 minutes ago, Dave Ferris said:

 

As it should.

 

Regarding Joey- already an immense talent who will without a doubt continue to blossom and mature. But listening to him, he has astounding chops yet I can hear he doesn't have the touch of a Hank Jones, Tommy Flanagan, Sonny Clark, Bill Evans, Jarrett, Kenny Barron and younger guys like Bill Charlap, Mehldau, David Hazeltine, Dan Nimmer and yes Hiromi. Just to name a small sampling of jazz people.

 

There's simply no way to develop the nuance of touch on a digital instrument.  It's a different area of highly sophisticated and refined technique. Which has ZERO to do with how many notes you can play.

 

You can practice  classical and jazz and keep your chops somewhat up on a hybrid -AvantGrand, Kawai Novus- but it's still not the same as even a smaller grand- Yamaha C3/C2 and smaller Steinways. Until your inner ear gets in touch with the acoustical properties of the instrument, the subtleties of pedaling, legato and sustain, you'll never fully realize a big part of the picture.

 

 On the other hand, if these are your goals, being a keyboardist in a rock/pop/r&b/country band or cranking out your own tracks in a home studio, Steve is right on the money.

 

Thanks you said it better than me.  That's all I was trying to say.  

[cp-the-nerd]

On 11/29/2022 at 9:59 AM, Outkaster said:

OK Prove me wrong?  What pro piano player classical or otherwise learned on a digital instrument. 

A conversation from you to start with would've been nice, given that this is a forum and not twitter. I laughed at your blatant exaggeration that one can only develop piano skills on an acoustic instrument, which if taken literally is obviously false, and returned volley. 😆

I wasn't aware the OP intended to be a pro classical player given that their playing gigs are rarely on acoustic piano, but please offer more of your unnuanced and dismissive tone.

[Al Quinn]

I’ve seen classical players playing digital pianos on YouTube playing wonderfully. I certainly agree that an acoustic piano is the best first choice but I also believe that digital pianos are valid as quality instruments that one can develop on. Of course, I’m referring to top-notch digital pianos.

 

For example, classical pianist and Julliard grad Nahre Sol playing the CP88. There are others as well.

 

 

[Outkaster]

9 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

A conversation from you to start with would've been nice, given that this is a forum and not twitter. I laughed at your blatant exaggeration that one can only develop piano skills on an acoustic instrument, which if taken literally is obviously false, and returned volley. 😆

I wasn't aware the OP intended to be a pro classical player given that their playing gigs are rarely on acoustic piano, but please offer more of your unnuanced and dismissive tone.

Ok fair enough I apologize.  

[ElmerJFudd]

On 12/1/2022 at 12:25 AM, Al Quinn said:

I’ve seen classical players playing digital pianos on YouTube playing wonderfully. I certainly agree that an acoustic piano is the best first choice but I also believe that digital pianos are valid as quality instruments that one can develop on. Of course, I’m referring to top-notch digital pianos.

 

For example, classical pianist and Julliard grad Nahre Sol playing the CP88. There are others as well.

 

 

Sure, but all of these players developed their technique on acoustic grand pianos.  Digitals have come a long way, they are undeniably convenient, and ultimately everyone performs on what’s available at the venue.   
 

Obviously, Yamaha, Roland, Kawai etc. really need these top notch players on video playing their new models and the players need endorsement deals.  

[Jose EB5AGV]

The player is 90% of the final sound, IMO, regardless of the instrument. Well, that may sound exaggerated, but I learned that long away, when I was 10 or so, had never played any instrument, and, along my parents, we visited a commercial gallery where there was a musical instruments section. There, a pro player demonstrated an Italian electronic console piano, and we were all hooked. In few weeks my parents bought that magnificent sounding instrument... And, once at home, we were unable to get any remotely similar sound to what we had heard on the store. Never. Yes, we got caught by the demo guy. Clever marketing 😅

 

So the years went by, the poor Fesma Granada 49 sit mostly unused, and it took me about 40 years to begin playing the piano / keyboards just short of 5 years ago. And, yet, if I play the Fesma (still have it, if now in an storage area), it does not sound as it did on that demo! 🤔

 

Now that I own an acoustic piano (Yamaha U3H) and several digitals, as the nice Kawai VPC1 controller, along high quality VSTs, IMO the acoustic is the proper instrument to learn and it translates nicely to other instruments. The first days I had the acoustic at home, I honestly thought I had goofed completely on my decision. That instrument sounded awfully loud and the left hand killed all right hand sound. Learning to control dynamics on it was a night/day difference and I found that digital instrument (I had then a Yamaha DGX660) were too easy to the player and not realistic enough. But then, going the other way, from acoustic to digital, I can perfectly control dynamics. So, again, IMO the acoustic is the proper way to learn.

 

Sorry for the long rant 😆

[Montunoman 2]

“Now that I own an acoustic piano (Yamaha U3H) and several digitals, as the nice Kawai VPC1 controller, along high quality VSTs, IMO the acoustic is the proper instrument to learn and it translates nicely to other instruments”

 

That’s exactly what my teacher tells me too. 
Too bad all the acoustic pianos I’ve tried in my price range feel horrible. 

[Theo Verelst]

Nah, I think I'm fine, I had enough practice on acoustics. In fact my digital setup is getting somewhat close to to a proper acoustic experience.

 

But as serious answer: piano is acoustic by nature, and digital isn't close enough in a number of ways. An electronic organ (I also learned keyboard playing on that) is electronic in nature, that too  isn't perfect in digital form.

 

If there some day will be perfection  it's alright to go digital, provided the amplification and controlers are perfect, too.

 

T