Logic Pro User Exploring Cubase 12

[allan_evett]

Earlier this week I downloaded the free (for 30 days) version of Cubase Pro 12.  I've been using Logic Pro X for 10+ years, right now on a 2015 iMac and 2012 MBP w/Catalina (last OS for that model); iMac at home, MBP at a teaching studio.  I also have Cubasis 3 on a iPad Pro, which has sometimes been a teaching tool. 

 

Cubase 12 runs best on my basic Acer PC laptop, far better than on the 2012 MBP (Catalina not being officially supported by Steinberg).  I didn't install it on the iMac because that computer has been super-glitchy over the past year and a half; every few months it becomes 'possessed' in its interractions with Logic  - among other apps, and even Sweetwater's tech support team was flummoxed at times by it. We've gotten the iMac to return to normal a few times, but I'm not counting on it lasting too much longer.  So a big reason for taking a look at switching over to Cubase - especially for the home-based rig - is the cost of a replacing the iMac; and even going with a new Mac laptop is aggravating, $$-wise. An upgraded PC would eventually be much easier on the wallet.

 

Full-blown Cubase is quite a bit deeper than Cubasis, and does have a steeper learning curve than Logic.  So solid tutorials that fellow users here can point me to would be great.  I've attempted a couple of those, so info on some that are clear, concise and to the point would be helpful.  One thing I would miss in converting over is Drummer.  I've started reading up on UJAM Virtual Drummer Hot, and Jamstix 4.  Either could be an option, but any additional ideas from here would be great.

[Adam Burgess]

My friend and guitarist with me is a massive Cubase/Nuendo fan and keeps trying to get me to switch!
Does a lot of beta testing and stuff with Steinberg. Very talented man.

I'm the same, I've used Logic for so long, I don't really want to have to learn all the shortcuts again.
Was bad enough having to go to Logic from ProTools and the dedicated hardware 12 years ago 'cause that's what the bandleader used! Same with Sibelius and Dorico!

But, he makes a living with Cubase. And, an amazing guitarist and arranger!

https://www.youtube.com/c/PhilPendlebury/playlists

[ElmerJFudd]

I’ve used them both over the years - Cubase/Steinberg is as good a choice as any and they’ve adopted better efforts for stability, bug fixes for current versions vs. getting a new version out the door over the years (one of their pre-Yamaha criticisms along with failure to support their hardware for any decent length of time).   
 

If I were going to go all in on Windows over macOS Cubase would be my choice.  
 

Other cross platform choices for traditional layout and historically deep development are Pro Tools (you get more for your $ as far as content and features with Cubase) and MOTU DP.   I don’t think any of them provide more content with purchase of the DAW than Logic though. 
 

 

[allan_evett]

Thanks, guys!  Hadn't thought of Digital Performer; will check that out.  Also want to check out Phil Pendlebury's YT site. 

[Docbop]

I watch a lot of film and Media composers YT's and seems Cubase is used a lot by that crowd.    

[Mark Schmieder]

Film and media people used to be big on DP, and still are, but are probably split  more evenly now between MOTU, Steinberg, and Apple products.

 

I could never get my recent Steinberg non-dongle licenses to hold, and as they didn't respond to my ticket in March and I've been in non-stop disaster recovery mode since then, I'm not sure I'll get any sympathy when I finally find time to re-contact them. Not thrilled about hundred of dollars spent.

 

Having sold Studio One (I could never get on with that product), and historically avoiding Pro Tools due to track count vs. my gigantic templates as well as no MIDI support for many years, and with Cakewalk having come and gone at least twice, the other DAW's are mostly uber-expensive, toyish, or loop-based.

 

DP was my choice way back, due to being the closest to traditional analog workflow (as is PT but Avid still has some annoying policies that make me hesitant to buy into the "industry standard"). It may have the most intuitive and well-integrated sound-for-film editing strip, at least for apps that run on macOS.

 

I'll come back to this later; yet another interruption from my disaster recovery team after last night's great deluge from the hurricane.

[obxa]

Not sure if you're aware- Bandlab has resurrected Cakewalk (it's basically Sonar 8 without the bugs and a few of the 3rd party plugs...). 

https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk?lang=en. It's also free. 

 

I'm also  a longtime Logic user.   Recently needed to  pull up some old Sonar projects- I bought a cheap refurbished  Win7 box on Ebay,  stuffed it with 32 gb memory and  internal SSD and was very pleasantly surprised how well Bandlab ran. 

 

How is the memory situation in your Imac?    I will say in the studio, I still run a 2012 Mac I7 Mini with with Catalina and 16gb and internal SSD.  .  Other than maxing it out with some  track counts in Logic and Omnisphere occasionally choking it-  it runs fairly well.       I'm updating to a  Mac Studio in a few months, but still waiting till they get all the M1 chip compatibility issues fixed,  and I finish up some projects. 

 

I also gave up on Studio one.  Dabbled with Cubase on OSX. since I was  a  Nuendo user on PC- but didn't totally bond with it.   If I didn't have so much time invested in Logic, I'd switch to DP.   

 

I would also suggest you also take a look at Reaper.  There are legions of folks using it.     I have to use  ProTools for some client stuff, and the midi stuff isn't nearly as bad as it used to be.

[Mark Schmieder]

I had to use Reaper for a job last summer and it drove me as crazy as when I tried it pre-beta way back (usually referred to as alpha stage and under tight lips sink ships). I don't like stuff that doesn't have a purpose or a focus. As an application developer myself, I am careful to guide the user, while still allowing flexibility. But yeah, it has a small footprint at least, and often can handle plug-ins that fail in other DAW's. It was my requisite testbed for verifying and validating audio plug-ins, but I can't mention the vendor name as it was under NDA. It drove me back to Java from C++, that's for sure!

 

I am aware of Bandlab. My bandmates from an on-hiatus project have tried it but have moved on by now from Sonar, using Logic Pro instead. I use Logic Pro for stuff I can't do in DP and also for the greatly improved Alchemy that fixes all my gripes from the pre-buyout standalone version. I may start using Logic Pro more at some point. But I still find it confusing to not take an audio-centric approach to recording, even though I also use MIDI.

[KuruPrionz]

I started on Digital Performer, back when hippies designed all the different pop-up thingies that cluttered up the screen. It worked but I found it tedious. 

I don't know how it is now but screenshots of the basic layout remind me of Tracktion before it became Waveform.

 

I've been using that since version 3 and it's now on version 12. something. There is a free version that can be purpose upgraded and a trial version of the full program. 

I've recently thought about moving to Logic Pro since I'm on a Mac but I'm deep into quite a few projects and the last thing I need right now is a new learning curve. 

I had the 90 day trial (is anybody more generous on trial time than Apple?) and I found I didn't spend nearly enough time with it. I do plan on revisiting it, it looks like a great package to me. 

 

Anyway, it won't cost anything to but some time to take a look if you want to check out Waveform. I've found it can do much more than I am inclined to learn. www.tracktion.com 

[D. Gauss]

I left Nuendo for Reaper years ago and haven't looked back.  If all you do is MIDI, then maybe Logic is a better bet, but if you come from analog recording (tape and mixers), then Reaper is hard to beat.  Solid as a rock...moreso than any of the others, and the support/configurabilty/customization is second to none. Yes, there is a learning curve as they handle some things a bit different.. i.e. a track is a track whether it be mis, audio, or a bus, however, once you wrap yur head around it, the power is immense.  oh and it's cheap as chips. also, free to try forever. (no copy protection)

[Mighty Motif Max]

I’m a big Cubase fan - I started with GarageBand as a kid and toyed with the idea of upgrading to Logic, but had not liked the old Logic Express program at all, and coincidentally Yamaha was bundling Cubase AI with some products I had. For a bit I was totally confused with it, so I used Studio One V3...which I discovered I didn’t like the UI or midi workflow of. So I went back to Cubase AI8, started actually learning it, and upgraded from there. Currently on Pro 12, which does virtually everything I would want. Better video editing integration would be one thing that could be improved. Aside from that it’s a beast. I tried to get back into Apple’s workflow recently with Mainstage but it’s still not intuitive at all to me. Not claiming that Cubase is intuitive at first either, but over time I’ve really come to appreciate it.

 

I do use Reaper at times, but for one reason - it’s the ONLY DAW that still has a version that works on the ancient PowerPC G4 cpu and I happen to have a well-maintained/restored old iBook G4 that I had to use for tracking a while back. Obviously that computer had limits to what it could handle for effects, but for straight tracking it worked like a charm. Not bad for 18 year old hardware.

[mcgoo]

I've been a Cakewalk user for over 30 years. I've tried to switch to other DAWs a few times because of capabilities that CW didn't have, but have never succeeded in getting my head around a foreign workflow. I still think about switching to DP every time I do a score for a video that's longer than a :30 sec TV spot because of DP's "chunks" feature. As far as I can tell, nobody handles video in a DAW better than DP and no one has anything like their chunks feature. 

 

[David Emm]

Ah, if only we could mash three or four tools into one, with all of the good parts and few of the bad. I reached a point of homicide with Cubase right before I took up the next-gen iMac and Logic 8, which has improved to a surreal degree since then. I'm boggled by those of you who swap DAWs like you'd swap synths in the studio. I get it, but still... I've mostly hit my goal of instinctively reaching for many things like I'd reach for Minimoog envelopes.  

 

DAWs are a pile of reel-to-reel tape decks in my particular head, so some of the starship features don't appear on my radar. I build the macros and templates I really need so I can stay focused on the notes. The whole business is a tightrope of electrons over a shark tank. I need every CPU cycle I have to avoid falling in. 

 

I have a friend who lives down the road from MOTU, so he's been a big DP user for years. I almost took the plunge due to his praise for it. Its Mach Five sampler recognizes almost everything, including Kontakt and Ableton Sampler data. Its a Rolls-Royce item they never quite popularized the way Apple handled Logic, but its a major powerhouse all the same.

[UnderGroundGr]

I was cakewalk/sonar user for many years. Back in 2007, when i switched to mac, i tried DP but it was so difficult for me, so i have been using Logic since then...

Back in my windows days i tried both cubase and cakewalk and the second was much easier to work with...

[Stokely]

Cubase is one I never tried much, I think I  had a brief stint with it WAY back.  I kind of started with Performer and Vision (sequencers only), got into Dos Voyetra and later Cakewalk for Windows 3.1 (!) and have tried a bunch of others.  They all have their learning curves.

I'll be doing it again, going over to our guitarist's house to help him with Reaper (which I don't know at all).  It helps to know what to look for, and of course the internet helps a TON, but I'm sure there will be a lot of hunting and pecking.  I'm hoping there aren't driver issues with his interface, being back on mac I haven't dealt with that in many years.

[Husker]

On 10/1/2022 at 4:02 PM, obxa said:

Not sure if you're aware- Bandlab has resurrected Cakewalk (it's basically Sonar 8 without the bugs and a few of the 3rd party plugs...). 

https://www.bandlab.com/products/cakewalk?lang=en. It's also free. 

 

 

I use Cakewalk a bit, but it is PC only, no Mac version.  

 

I use Cubase mostly, and if someone is getting started with it, I'd strongly suggest spending a few dollars on some of the excellent Groove 3 Cubase tutorials.

[johnchop]

My DAW litmus test:

 

Can I figure out how to scan plugins, configure inputs and outputs, create a track, monitor a track, arm for recording, enable the metronome and configure count-in… all inside of 5 minutes and without a manual?

 

That’s an easy test of how much usage friction I’ll experience.

 

Cubase challenges my brain wiring more than Live or Waveform has, but it was always rock stable on my PCs, and has gotten easier to use over time (casual user since version 5).  I do tend to forget what each Cubase icon means after being away from it for a while.

 

Good luck with your exploration!

-John

 

 

 

 

[Stokely]

^ I'm not sure I've ever been able to do all that in five minutes.  DAWs are pretty overwhelming interface-wise.  I remember trying out Ableton Live years ago, its claim to fame was no buried sub menus.  True enough, so instead of scanning submenus for stuff I ended up minutely examining every inch of the screen for icons and buttons   

I still get lost in Logic.  Generally it's when I'm trying to use some feature I don't normally, or when I accidently hit a key command and it starts behaving oddly (this has happened to me more than a couple times and it's due to me switching from work windows computer to music mac computer keyboard and fat-fingering everything!)  Last one was really weird solo behavior and it was because I hit alt-something by accident.  I also muted a bunch of regions once by accident, not something I normally do and I couldn't figure out why some tracks were not making sound!

One feature I miss from Digital Performer (iirc) was "look back", though I think the name was different....with midi tracks, it would play previous notes even if you started play after the beginning of the note.  I think they had to be still sustaining if memory serves...so if you started on measure 5, a note that began at measure 3 but ended after 5 would sound.   It wasn't perfect but it was pretty handy when working on sections with long sustained notes.

[obxa]

I think I confused Allan's post with Marks regarding Cakewalk which is why I mentioned it-sorry for any confusion!

 

I have always appreciated Cubase, but have never been able to totally bond with it.   Long story:  as "next chapter " in life:  I'm phasing myself out of live music and back into scoring.   I've used Logic on a couple of corporate videos in the past, but have never done anything longer than 15 minutes.   I know most of my friends that do heavy visual stuff are on Cubase or DP.  I think whatever works.

 

I concur with  Johnchop on how quickly you can get around.  Much like using any synth or virtual plugin for the first time. .  I will also add you do what you need to do with what you have.   I worked at a Music library/Jingle house in the early 80s in NYC  that used Midi Paint (Mark of the Unicorn!)  and Vision on a Mac and loved it.   But I couldn't afford a Mac for my home rig back then.   So  I used Dr T,  Sequencer Plus by Voyetra, and Cakewalk on DOS... sadly that's all there was for PC.  Yet somehow I got a ton of music done.

 

I'm fully vested in Logic X at this point.  But still have a love-hate relationship with it.    When I dusted off old files in Sonar I was amazed how much music I did (and actually finished).  With client music sessions and my other part time job (VO,) I've been forced to learn a bunch of other DAWs.   Strangely,  Premier is hugely popular in a lot of post houses, at least the ones down here I work at- more than ProTools. 

 

Should also mention because of my Church gig,  Ive used Abelton live for 8 years... but only for putting together performance tracks I first create/edit  in Logic.  I fully get what it does, but not the way I write or create..  Don't use it for  loops on demand feature, just as glorified jukebox and click track machine- and so does most of Ministry. 

 

  

[allan_evett]

17 hours ago, obxa said:

 

Should also mention because of my Church gig,  Ive used Abelton live for 8 years... but only for putting together performance tracks I first create/edit  in Logic.  I fully get what it does, but not the way I write or create..  Don't use it for  loops on demand feature, just as glorified jukebox and click track machine- and so does most of Ministry. 

 

  

I remember being introduced to Ableton at one of the earlier summer NAMM shows in Nashville. Fun, interesting demo; was invited to interact with it, which was cool..

Didn't turn out to be my DAW of choice though.  

Next time I ran into Ableton was when a church leader I worked for expressed surprise that I didn't utilize that DAW live.  I offered to mock-up special backing tracks if needed - in Logic or Cubasis, though I preferred a true live musical setting, even with varying numbers of available talent.  The prior MD has used an iOS app (similar to Ableton), and always had an exact number of players - no matter who showed.  

 

 

[obxa]

2 hours ago, allan_evett said:

 

Next time I ran into Ableton was when a church leader I worked for expressed surprise that I didn't utilize that DAW live.  I offered to mock-up special backing tracks if needed - in Logic or Cubasis, though I preferred a true live musical setting, even with varying numbers of available talent.  The prior MD has used an iOS app (similar to Ableton), and always had an exact number of players - no matter who showed.  

 

 

It's amazing how much it's de facto standard in Worship- and not really the way Live was intended. .  Logic has never been really good at playing multiple songs in performance in spite of that loop thing they added... I saw the writing on the wall.  But because I was "Dis-Abelton" , I had to be humble enough to take a couple of lessons with a 20 yr old worship leader to get up to speed.  That and some Udemy courses,  got me comfortable enough to put it on my resume, but still can't really create raw content in it.  Nor do I want to. 

 

I'm with you on true live setting.   After prior years at a Mega church that went full hog on performance tracks,  I've come full circle with the plight of missing players and parts.   I'm fortunate enough in my main Church to have some very A-list players.  My Pastor/Boss luckily shares the same belief that if you have great players you can take up the slack.  And I think congregates instinctively know it's more authentic.  Besides click track and cues, these days I mostly just use little arpeggiator loops, shaker, and  transition-static pads.  That also  allows some freedom from the arrangements if a WL wants to go off the written page.  Conversely,  I also still work at a huge well known church that's televised- they've got full orchestra,  plus band, plus choir.  All paid, all exceptional musicians.    Yet every time I hear the TV mix, I scratch my head that it's predominately tracks heard in the mix.  

[David Emm]

21 hours ago, Stokely said:

I still get lost in Logic.  Generally it's when I'm trying to use some feature I don't normally, or when I accidently hit a key command and it starts behaving oddly (this has happened to me more than a couple times and it's due to me switching from work windows computer to music mac computer keyboard and fat-fingering everything!)  Last one was really weird solo behavior and it was because I hit alt-something by accident.  I also muted a bunch of regions once by accident, not something I normally do and I couldn't figure out why some tracks were not making sound!

 

 HAH! I can name that tune in 2 notes! I still inadvertently hit alt-(bleep) and then have to look for the WTH key. Its been an interesting way to build a few useful macros. There's nothing quite like having your automation lanes suddenly appear at the size of real bricks to test your patience. Solutions often come in the form of reverse-engineering my Stoopid. 🤨

 

Sometimes you RTFM and it works; sometimes you have to bite the wax tadpole and learn the hard way.    

 

[obxa]

 

3 hours ago, David Emm said:

There's nothing quite like having your automation lanes suddenly appear at the size of real bricks to test your patience.

LOL. I use tons of custom key commands, plus  macros via Keyboard Maestro. To this day I still spend half my time redrawing the screen and resizing  tracks/windows  that never seem to fit the way I want or set..... or having to tell  Logic to chase the playback head even though I've clicked it to do so 50 million times.   

[Anderton]

I use 'em all, because it's my gig. For Windows, here's my totally subjective summary:

 

Cakewalk: Free,  full-function. Spend your leftover money on the plug-ins that don't come bundled with it.

Studio One: Best and fastest for songwriting. Nothing else has their harmonic editing feature, which I find indispensable.

Cubase: If you can't do it in Cubase, it probably can't be done. Most comprehensive MIDI implementation, but the program can be daunting.

Pro Tools: If you collaborate with people, it's the lingua franca of DAWs. Also with audio-for-video projects.

Reaper: Have to recuse myself here, never could wrap my head around it.

Acid Pro: The fastest way to put together soundtracks and audio-for-video.

Live: I've used it for live performance since it was introduced, and it has never even hiccupped during a performance, on Windows or Mac. I think the only way to make it crash is to drop it running on a laptop from 15 feet on to a concrete floor. Then again, Live still might work, even if you can't tell because the screen is broken.

Acoustica Mixcraft: The most underrated DAW by far, especially if you do video as well as audio.

Digital Performer: The second most underrated DAW by far, especially if you do commercial video projects. Thank God they made the UI scalable a couple revs ago.

Samplitude: See Cubase...except it can be even more daunting.

[LarsHarner2]

Hello, I used Acoustic Mixcraft from 2013-around 2019. It worked well for me, I would then master in Ozone elements.

I had been really impressed with Presonus's presentation at the IMSTA software fest I went to one year in NYC 

I now use Studio One exclusively, but I have Logic Pro installed on my Mac but actually haven't gotten to it yet but plan to.

[D. Gauss]

17 hours ago, Anderton said:

Reaper: Have to recuse myself here, never could wrap my head around it.

 

that's a shame, 'cause it's solid as a rock, more powerful/configurable/routable than you can imagine and dirt cheap. also will run on almost any computer and will run off a thumb drive, too.

[Mark Schmieder]

Some of us consider "configurable" to be synonymous with "lack of focus". But it's good to have lots of different tools out there, as everyone operates differently. I write software for a living, so I want my off-work hours to be as far removed from my day job as possible. I like apps with vision, focus, purpose, consistency, and a workflow and feature set that work out of the box.

[Stokely]

I did end up going over and working with our guitarist with Reaper.  Thankfully he'd already figured out some of the basics with recording and getting his audio interface to work.  

 

Not sure if it was because his computer had it set this way, or because he was using the non-paid version of Reaper, but man that is a rough gui compared to Logic.  The layout of things is understandable, they are all different, but it had the look and feel of a 90s visual basic application.  Especially with the stock plugins.  The 3-band EQ compared to Logic's channel EQ, wow.  Just a few sliders for setting the frequency, I didn't see any way to do a shelf or set the Q.  And I missed the graphic of the signal below!  But it all worked and that's the main thing.    We installed one plugin to show him there were other options--the free excellent Valhalla Supermassive--and that interface was so much better to use than the stock ones!   Tokyo Dawn Labs has a few excellent plugins, generally with a free version and a paid one with more features (but the free ones often have all you need).   

[D. Gauss]

20 minutes ago, Stokely said:

  Especially with the stock plugins.  The 3-band EQ compared to Logic's channel EQ, wow.  Just a few sliders for setting the frequency, I didn't see any way to do a shelf or set the Q.  And I missed the graphic of the signal below!  But it all worked and that's the main thing.   

Hmmm, those statements are far from being correct except for the "all worked."

 

ReaEQ

Unlimited band IIR based equalizer

Support for any number of many types of filters (shelfs, bands, LPF, HPF, notch, bandpass, allpass)

Frequency response and phase response display

Display of approximate note+octave for frequencies

Per-band bypass control

Full-view of graph optional for precise editing

Mouse modifiers/mousewheel usable for editing bandwidth of points in graph

 

If you're familiar with that huge 90's radio hit "Sex and Candy" by Marcy playground, Kenny Gioia, the engineer/producer of that record, does all these videos for Reaper:

 

[Stokely]

Oh wow, that bears no resemblance to what we used.  That indeed is much more what I was looking for.   I don't think we were using "ReaEQ" for one thing, I just saw 3-band EQ and pulled it up.

Well, I stand corrected.  I suspect I was using some old stock version (similar to how Logic has the old apple utilities and plugins).