Skpro shrill upper octaves?

[kwyn]

Someone on our Skpro fb group suggested. At gigs, is this accomplished by mic'ing the amp? Or going into the board from the amp out? Or direct? What kind of amp?

 

"Play it through a lo-fi speaker like an old keyboard amp.  Playing it through a powered monitor (a hi fi speaker) is the issue, i.e. what causes the shrillness."

[mate stubb]

If you go direct to FOH, you must correct the shrillness on the organ itself. Fine tuning the tonewheel taper can tame it. The problem with cutting high EQ is that it dulls down the key click (I like my click to spit.)

[Baldwin Funster]

Old keyboard amp= old guitar amp. Also old PA. Remember the old fender PAs? A 200 watt guitar amp and column of 10" jensens with no horn. 

 

Full range PA will work if you get the highs rolled off with the right eq. Maybe an old Pultec.

 

BTW the B3x has what looks like a pultec modeled in the app.

I've never really used it though.

[Baldwin Funster]

Delete.

[kwyn]

21 minutes ago, mate stubb said:

If you go direct to FOH, you must correct the shrillness on the organ itself. Fine tuning the tonewheel taper can tame it. The problem with cutting high EQ is that it dulls down the key click (I like my click to spit.)

How does one fine tune the tonewheel taper?

[cphollis]

1 hour ago, kwyn said:

Someone on our Skpro fb group suggested. At gigs, is this accomplished by mic'ing the amp? Or going into the board from the amp out? Or direct? What kind of amp?

 

"Play it through a lo-fi speaker like an old keyboard amp.  Playing it through a powered monitor (a hi fi speaker) is the issue, i.e. what causes the shrillness."

If your clonewheel has speaker emulations (or a good EQ section) that will tame the shriek as well.

[mate stubb]

31 minutes ago, kwyn said:

How does one fine tune the tonewheel taper?

 

Not owning a digi Hammond myself currently, I can't say for sure. When I had my XK-1C, you could load custom tonewheel sets that had a more pleasing balance (brother Jim A's tonewheel set is pretty famous.)

 

Otherwise, shrillness can be reduced by changing the resistance wire modelling on some organs - Crumar for instance, but I don't know if this is available on the Hammond. 

 

Seek Jim's tonewheel set for starters.

[JMcS]

12 hours ago, kwyn said:

How does one fine tune the tonewheel taper?

In the Equalizer section of the manual/menu there is a Tone Control parameter (SK-1 manual Pg. 100 #1). It curves the frequencies above 200Hz down. The higher the frequency the more it can be pulled down. There is an explanation and graphic in the manual. 

[Jim Alfredson]

The new SK Pro is anything but shrill. Especially compared to the older SK series. I haven't made a tonewheel set or done any substantial tweaks to the SK Pro or SKX Pro since I got them because to my ears they don't need it. The high-end is lovely.

[kwyn]

10 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

The new SK Pro is anything but shrill. Especially compared to the older SK series. I haven't made a tonewheel set or done any substantial tweaks to the SK Pro or SKX Pro since I got them because to my ears they don't need it. The high-end is lovely.

Well you know your stuff and I won't challenge that. Perhaps it's my zlx's. I'm going in ears tonight. Haven't tried that in years, so we'll see

[Jim Alfredson]

2 hours ago, kwyn said:

Well you know your stuff and I won't challenge that. Perhaps it's my zlx's. I'm going in ears tonight. Haven't tried that in years, so we'll see

 

Ah, yes I own a pair of ZLX's. I find they are pretty bright. I usually roll the high-end off by 3db on those. 

I use either a Leslie 3300 with my SK Pro or in-ears and the onboard Leslie and I haven't found the need to adjust the high-end on the SK in either case. 

[Delaware Dave]

I use ELX's (older brother to the ZLX's).  They are made of wood where the ZLX's are made of ABS and they are a shade warmer.  I have a Gemini desktop (Mojo in a rack).  I get no shrillness when I run the Gemini through a tube leslie and minimal when I run the Gemini through my Motion Sound Pro 3T/Low Pro.  I get more shrillness when I run the internal leslie sim OR through a Vent or GSI BURN because the output speaker is my ELX.  I get less shrillness when I run either the internal leslie or Vent/BURN through a Keyboard amp because the cabinet as a whole is much less brighter than the ELX.  So my conclusion is it is the backend output causing the shrillness.  Unfortunately the Keyboard amp is both heavy (over 80 pounds) and sounds awful for anything other than the organ.  So what I do as a compromise is run my organ channel through my mixer's EQ, reducing 2Khz and 4Khz by about 5 dB's and everything below 6Khz since a hammond doesn't produce any tone above 6Khz.  All other channels on the mixer (i.e. channels containing non-organ sounds) are not EQ'd.  Other than using a leslie this is my best compromise which keeps my the rig 'light' and avoids having to bring a leslie to a gig.  If it is a huge gig and I have plenty of setup time I'll bring a leslie, otherwise this is my next best alternative.  Not perfect but makes the high octave tolerable.

 

P.S.  I also started using a Lounsberry T&F which I stick in between the organ module and the MS, Vent or Burn (not needed with a tube leslie).  It helps to round out the top end a little.