New: Casio PX 7000/6000

[Sunlight2]

Is the new action we're talking about here akin to the one in Casio's Grand Hybrid stuff? Because that was a pretty good action, let down only by the samples 🙂 

 

Looks like they're going after the P515 market and they've got me interested. I like the styling very much, including the stand, but it all depends on the action - if it beats the P515 I'm in.

[Sam CA]

21 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

This is interesting, dynamic control appears to be wide enough, keys appear to move rapidly and notes repeat well.  Hopefully a shop in my area grabs one for the floor.  Do all of them have this action redesign?  5000,6000,7000? 

 

Absolutely! It has good sounding pianos, and keys handle advanced techniques very well. Time will tell, if it's a durable keyboard, but for now it checks all the boxes for the price range. Such a beautiful instrument!

[ElmerJFudd]

9 minutes ago, Sam CA said:

 

Absolutely! It has good sounding pianos, and keys handle advanced techniques very well. Time will tell, if it's a durable keyboard, but for now it checks all the boxes for the price range. Such a beautiful instrument!

If you have your hands on one now, could check something for us?  
 

Repeatedly tap the keys, white and black, from closest to you and slow shift your way toward the back of the key.   As you move toward the back does it become harder to press the key down and get a note to trigger?   At the very back of the key is there an area where you can’t get a note to trigger at all or if you can is it noticeably softer (lower velocity)?  This is a typical problem with short keys that’s apparent on the S1000/3000 and other digitals that opt for short keyed action.  

[Sam CA]

13 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

If you have your hands on one now, could check something for us?  
 

Repeatedly tap the keys, white and black, from closest to you and slow shift your way toward the back of the key.   As you move toward the back does it become harder to press the key down and get a note to trigger?   At the very back of the key is there an area where you can’t get a note to trigger at all or if you can is it noticeably softer (lower velocity)?  This is a typical problem with short keys that’s apparent on the S1000/3000 and other digitals that opt for short keyed action.  

 

 

I do not at the moment. Leon has it at his house. But I'll definitely bring it up when I talk to him. 

 

You're right about that though. I don't think I've ever played any DP with short keys that doesn't have that issue. 

[Jim Alfredson]

Looks cool and sounds great! The organ is better than the MOD-X+

[AnotherScott]

11 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Looks cool and sounds great! The organ is better than the MOD-X+

Say what? ;-)

 

I only heard a little of one organ sample, but I was... unimpressed. Not that I'd expect anyone to be buying this for organ.

 

But MODX has, IMO, probably the best organ sounds of any keyboard that doesn't have an actual legit organ engine in it. Check these two short videos. The first shows a patch that permits live drawbar manipulation; the second shows some of the preset patches in the board (of varying qualities). These are from the original MODX, but all the same MODX patches and capabilities are also in the MODX+.

 

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Say what? 😉

 

I only heard a bit of one organ sample, at the beginning of one video (which I can't locate at the moment), which I didn't like at all, I couldn't imagine why they would lead off a demo of a premium piano with a pretty lame organ sound. But I admit, I only heard about 10 seconds.

 

Meanwhile, MODX has, IMO, probably the best organ sounds of any keyboard that doesn't have an actual legit organ engine in it. Check these two short videos. The first shows a patch that permits live drawbar manipulation; the second shows some of the preset patches in the board (of varying qualities). These are from the original MODX, but all the same MODX patches and capabilities are also in the MODX+.

 

 

 

 

Scott, to your ears - has anything from YC or Genos made it into Montage/MODX?  Because I’ve heard some nice Hammond and Leslie on those models.  The reface YC ain’t bad either.  

[AnotherScott]

34 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Scott, to your ears - has anything from YC or Genos made it into Montage/MODX?  Because I’ve heard some nice Hammond and Leslie on those models. 

I think the Montage/MODX have serviceable organ sounds (again, see the videos I've just posted), and I have used them on gigs, but the YC with the improved 1.2 rotary effect is decidedly better. But that board and update post-dated Montage/MODX, so obviously nothing first introduced on the YC could have made it into the earlier Montage/MODX, but none of the updates for those boards have been organ, either. And unless they've kept it secret, there's been no organ/rotary effect update with the MODX+, either.

 

The rotary effect is not the only advantage the YC organ has over the Montage/MODX organ, but just sticking with that for the moment, whether it's even possible to put the new rotary effect into the MODX/Montage is an open question, i.e. with their fixed insert effect architecture which limits the effects resources available to any one individual sound. IOW, they can't do what Kurzweil does and say, okay, we'll use 10 effects units just to get this one effect, even though it means other sounds will need to have fewer (or no) effects. It's a design decision with its pros and cons. (And despite that flexibility, Kurz rotary is still not first-rate.)

 

But yeah, even besides the rotary, the YC is a much better organ. If you want to take advantage of the drawbar-adjustable mode of the MODX, you still have the basic inherent limitations of using straight samples for the drawbars (polyphony, the behavioral differences when you combine playing multiple keys that trigger the same "tonewheel" including phasing, among other things). Not that those things are necessarily so noticeable, it can depend on context, and there are some organ patches I enjoy on the MODX regardless. But for whatever combination of reasons, the YC provides a better emulation overall. Some other obvious advantages besides not suffering from the inherent limitations of the MODX approach include a choice of three different basic tonewheel sets (H1, H2, H3), and the C/V implementation.

 

My experience/knowledge on Genos is limited.

[Sam CA]

On 9/9/2022 at 2:42 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

If you have your hands on one now, could check something for us?  
 

Repeatedly tap the keys, white and black, from closest to you and slow shift your way toward the back of the key.   As you move toward the back does it become harder to press the key down and get a note to trigger?   At the very back of the key is there an area where you can’t get a note to trigger at all or if you can is it noticeably softer (lower velocity)?  This is a typical problem with short keys that’s apparent on the S1000/3000 and other digitals that opt for short keyed action.  

 

Ok, so I tried that. Yes the further you go toward the back the key gets heavier....BUT it's only really noticeable when you're all the way back and actually touching the top panel. That would be the most un-natural and rather painful position to be anyway, so it's VERY easy to adjust and adapt. I even tried on purpose to play something that way, and it's just not how I play piano, be it an acoustic grand, a Kronos or Casio. 

 

 

 

[Sam CA]

Here's a short demo for Stage EP (Casio S6000). It's preset #33. 

 

 

 

[Stokely]

Re: Modx organ, the really easy to use audio interface means my organ needs are handled by an ipad.  The built in ones can sound ok and I use them in splits where organ isn't the featured instrument on a song.

Back to this, well whatever the action is it sure didn't slow down Leon   I'm assuming that even if these don't have midi ports they'd have usb?   I have started using usb to connect my keyboards via a hub, mainly because of the limitation of the modx to only use usb OR midi, and I'm definitely already using usb for the ipad.   

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, Sam CA said:

 

Ok, so I tried that. Yes the further you go toward the back the key gets heavier....BUT it's only really noticeable when you're all the way back and actually touching the top panel. That would be the most un-natural and rather painful position to be anyway, so it's VERY easy to adjust and adapt. I even tried on purpose to play something that way, and it's just not how I play piano, be it an acoustic grand, a Kronos or Casio. 

 

 

 

Helpful, thank you for that. So this may be only a slight improvement over the previous short key design in the 1xxx and 3xxx.  

 

Wide chord voicings with their lowest tone on black keys put the player deeper into the keyboard toward the fallboard.  Voicings where you use the thumb to bar two black keys in particular.  Acoustic piano actions allow one to throw the  hammer with enough force to sound the strings anywhere along the key.  Many digital piano actions are able to replicate that behavior - some better than others. Some can’t and it’s usually due to key length and pivot point.  It doesn’t come up in every key sig, or every musical style, or every song which is why it bothers some more than others, and some not at all.  If you play melody in octaves with other chord tones inside often, it’s irksome.  

 

Here's two examples where you are deep on the key that come to mind. 

 

[Sam CA]

28 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Helpful, thank you for that. So this may be only a slight improvement over the previous short key design in the 1xxx and 3xxx.  

 

Wide chord voicings with their lowest tone on black keys put the player deeper into the keyboard toward the fallboard.  Voicings where you use the thumb to bar two black keys in particular.  Acoustic piano actions allow one to throw the  hammer with enough force to sound the strings anywhere along the key.  Many digital piano actions are able to replicate that behavior - some better than others. Some can’t and it’s usually due to key length and pivot point.  It doesn’t come up in every key sig, or every musical style, or every song which is why bothers some more than others.  If you play melody in octaves with order chord tones inside often, it’s irksome.  

 

Here's two examples where you are deep on the key that come to mind. 

 

 

 

 

I'm so glad you provided a very specific example. I will get back to you on this for sure. 

[ewall08530]

This video is the best demo and review so far.  I really like when Stu gets his hands on a keyboard.  

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

3 hours ago, ewall08530 said:

This video is the best demo and review so far.  I really like when Stu gets his hands on a keyboard.  

 

 

This is an excellent performance demo of the action - there are several times he’s deep into the action because he’s playing melody in octaves and putting other chord tones between - sometimes in a block, sometimes on off beats.  When you are doing this on black keys your hand is far into the action and you are needing the keys to trigger near the fall board - on white and black keys.  So clearly they’ve improved on the action because there is literally a dead spot on the S1000/3000 at the back of the keys.  
 

Example below.  He’s playing this Eb/Bb shape and he needs G and Bb, possibly C as well to trigger very close to the back of the key.  This happens all the time when playing large chord shapes with a black key on the bottom and top.  
 

 

Now he does suggest it is the shortest key length and pivot point of any weighted action keyboard in existence.  So they seem to have reworked the counter weighting system.  He says he likes playing it, but doesn’t go so far as to suggest it’s the best feeling or most acoustic piano-like action.  But if slim and light is important, this is worth a look.  

[Mike Martin]

 

24 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

So clearly they’ve improved on the action

 

I can honestly say, this is absolutely the best action Casio has ever produced outside of the Grand Hybrid.  There are some forums where people are analyzing diagrams saying this can't be true. I can only tell you that I was also skeptical about how dramatic of a change it is...until the moment I played it. It is a world different. 

 

We have a live event which will include some performances and discussion this coming Thursday at 1pm ET. 

Joining us for the live stream - Steve Weingart, Michael Whalen, Christian Cullen, Leon Thomasian and Alicia Witt. Please join if you can. 

 

 

 

[RandyFF]

Wowee, looks like these are great boards, if I didn’t have the Kawai ES920 it’d be on a short list along with the Numa Piano 73 and the Kawai MP7SE.

 

That list on the page AnotherScott shared didn’t include the PX-S5000 having only 2 speakers, not the 4 speakers of the S6000/7000.  AND, it doesn’t come with the 3 pedals.

 

Did I miss it?  I don’t see any mention of how many sounds at once can be configured.  I would guess 2 sounds at once, but hope for 4, I won’t buy another board without at least 4 note bi-timbrality.

 

I really like the iOS/Android sound editors included, must be how they kept the button/control surface so sparse.  Save money on the control surface but put it into the librarian / editors!  But hopefully there’s buttons for easy on/off of effects: Amp / Effects / Reverb

 

I’m surprised they don’t have a home console cabinet on offer, AFAIK home console sales are many times greater than slab sales.  Perhaps they will release it soon.  Was surprised when my sister wanted a piano she insisted that it had to have a furniture stand, preferably one with a retractable dust cover, how it looked in her house was as important as the piano itself!

 

Love that it has 4 speakers, and tuning it to placement in the room is quick and easy!  Would be curious to know the speakers placements, I’m guessing 2 in the rear and 2 on each side.  

 

Would be curious to know how much the legs weigh, and how long it takes to setup.  I like the look but it seems obvious the height is not adjustable. 

[ElmerJFudd]

13 minutes ago, RandyFF said:

Wowee, looks like these are great boards, if I didn’t have the Kawai ES920 it’d be on a short list along with the Numa Piano 73 and the Kawai MP7SE.

 

That list on the page AnotherScott shared didn’t include the PX-S5000 having only 2 speakers, not the 4 speakers of the S6000/7000.  AND, it doesn’t come with the 3 pedals.

 

Did I miss it?  I don’t see any mention of how many sounds at once can be configured.  I would guess 2 sounds at once, but hope for 4, I won’t buy another board without at least 4 note bi-timbrality.

 

I really like the iOS/Android sound editors included, must be how they kept the button/control surface so sparse.  Save money on the control surface but put it into the librarian / editors!  But hopefully there’s buttons for easy on/off of effects: Amp / Effects / Reverb

 

I’m surprised they don’t have a home console cabinet on offer, AFAIK home console sales are many times greater than slab sales.  Perhaps they will release it soon.  Was surprised when my sister wanted a piano she insisted that it had to have a furniture stand, preferably one with a retractable dust cover, how it looked in her house was as important as the piano itself!

 

Love that it has 4 speakers, and tuning it to placement in the room is quick and easy!  Would be curious to know the speakers placements, I’m guessing 2 in the rear and 2 on each side.  

 

Would be curious to know how much the legs weigh, and how long it takes to setup.  I like the look but it seems obvious the height is not adjustable. 

 

There are a lot of features shaved off of the 7000 as you make your way down to the 5000.  Comparison table at the bottom of this article.

 

https://www.worldpianonews.com/new-product/stylish-new-casio-digital-pianos/

 

 

[D. Gauss]

can you buy it without the sawhorse and the attached jungle gym?

[ElmerJFudd]

58 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

can you buy it without the sawhorse and the attached jungle gym?

Ya, entry fee is $1,199.99.  

[ewall08530]

1 hour ago, D. Gauss said:

can you buy it without the sawhorse and the attached jungle gym?

You cannot.  I put  that question to my friendly Casio Rep (and musician friend).  

[ElmerJFudd]

8 minutes ago, ewall08530 said:

You cannot.  I put  that question to my friendly Casio Rep (and musician friend).  

Not the 7000.  But they do have a 6000 and 5000 available as a slab.  The 6000 is very similar feature wise to the 7000 but not available in the colors.  The 5000 takes a significant hit on features at the $1199.99 price point.  

[D. Gauss]

3 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Not the 7000.  But they do have a 6000 and 5000 available as a slab.  The 6000 is very similar feature wise to the 7000 but not available in the colors.  

Similar but not the same.

[ewall08530]

12 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Not the 7000.  But they do have a 6000 and 5000 available as a slab.  The 6000 is very similar feature wise to the 7000 but not available in the colors.  The 5000 takes a significant hit on features at the $1199.99 price point.  

The S-7000 is the only one that has the 2 completely new piano samples, the New York and the Berlin.  I’ve been playing the Hamburg in the S-3000 for over 3 years and would welcome the variety.  In addition there’s a cool sounding Wurly in the famous PianoE/P sound bank called the Hatha which gives a nod to Donnie Hathaway’s sound. It’s better to my ears than any Wurly sound I’ve been able to coax out of the S-3000.  Again, only available on the S-7000. 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, ewall08530 said:

The S-7000 is the only one that has the 2 completely new piano samples, the New York and the Berlin.  I’ve been playing the Hamburg in the S-3000 for over 3 years and would welcome the variety.  In addition there’s a cool sounding Wurly in the famous PianoE/P sound bank called the Hatha which gives a nod to Donnie Hathaway’s sound. It’s better to my ears than any Wurly sound I’ve been able to coax out of the S-3000.  Again, only available on the S-7000. 

Right, that’s always the game of price points.  It certainly is convenient to have these sample sets on board - but with midi we’re never exclusively limited to what’s in the box. For example - a lot of pianists choose a digital for its action alone - models like the Yamaha N1 or Kawai MP11 -   never intending to use the internal piano libraries because they aren’t as detailed as what we’ve been getting from software developers like Garitan CFX or VI Labs Ravenscroft 275. Now I’m not suggesting the new Casios are comparable to N1 or MP11 action wise, but if compact and slim, easily moved around are appealing… 

[Sam CA]

@ElmerJFudd

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and questions. I shared your post with Leon and he thought it'd be a good idea to actually record a few demos. Sometimes it's just hard to get the point across without visual help. 

 

He has LONG fingers, and even he has to play close to the fallboard to accommodate for large advanced voicings. Also, towards the end of the video, he plays more demos that showcase the playability of these keyboards across the entire range/key length ...as well as the white vs. black key weight difference discussion. 

 

Obviously one's hand size and playing habits would always be a deciding factor as well. Some musicians are not as flexible. They could even have trouble playing different acoustic pianos, let alone different digital pianos. Sometimes it's just personal taste that gets in the way.

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

56 minutes ago, Sam CA said:

@ElmerJFudd

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and questions. I shared your post with Leon and he thought it'd be a good idea to actually record a few demos. Sometimes it's just hard to get the point across without visual help. 

 

He has LONG fingers, and even he has to play close to the fallboard to accommodate for large advanced voicings. Also, towards the end of the video, he plays more demos that showcase the playability of these keyboards across the entire range/key length ...as well as the white vs. black key weight difference discussion. 

 

Obviously one's hand size and playing habits would always be a deciding factor as well. Some musicians are not as flexible. They could even have trouble playing different acoustic pianos, let alone different digital pianos. Sometimes it's just personal taste that gets in the way.

 

 

 

Thanks.  I look forward to watching! 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, Sam CA said:

@ElmerJFudd

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and questions. I shared your post with Leon and he thought it'd be a good idea to actually record a few demos. Sometimes it's just hard to get the point across without visual help. 

 

He has LONG fingers, and even he has to play close to the fallboard to accommodate for large advanced voicings. Also, towards the end of the video, he plays more demos that showcase the playability of these keyboards across the entire range/key length ...as well as the white vs. black key weight difference discussion. 

 

Obviously one's hand size and playing habits would always be a deciding factor as well. Some musicians are not as flexible. They could even have trouble playing different acoustic pianos, let alone different digital pianos. Sometimes it's just personal taste that gets in the way.

 

 

 

Excellent demo.  Leon is a very athletic player and he undoubtedly built those fingers up from years of dedication to the instrument.  Thank you for taking the time to test the instrument and share for those of us who don’t have  access to one.  
 

I’m even more eager to try one out. The advertised price point of the 7000 is too hot for me. But an S5000 at 25.35lbs is of interest for casual gigging (I’m not so interested in this type of thin, lightweight, instrument in the home). Assuming at this point that the action is better than the previous version - are the 23 sounds on the 5000 the right 23 sounds to avoid needing to supplement with additional gear? I mainly need a nice AP, Rhodes, Strings, electric and acoustic bass sounds. DX EP, CP-80 and acoustic guitar would be nice.

[Sam CA]

1 minute ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Excellent demo.  Leon is a very athletic player and he undoubtedly built those fingers up from years of dedication to the instrument.  Thank you for taking the time to test the instrument and share for those of us who don’t have  access to one.  
 

I’m even more eager to play one.  The advertised  price point of the 7000 is too hot for me.   But an S5000 at 25.35lbs is of interest to me. Assuming at this point that the action is better than the previous version - are the 23 sounds on the 5000 the right 23 sounds to avoid needing to supplement with additional gear.  

 

You're very welcome! Oh yes, it takes a lot of dedication to develop that level of control. Like you said though, at the end of the day everyone has to test the board for themselves to make that final decision. Nonetheless, it's good to get some feedback and see things from someone else's perspective. 

[RandyFF]

Thanks for getting your friend to demo it in this way!  It would have been helpful to have a PX-S1000/1100/3000/3100 on hand to have relevant comparisons to keybeds that are very noticeably harder to play as you get to the fall board, so that there’d be a reference point known by many of us.

 

IMO I think Casio made a mistake by not putting the full speaker system in the S5000.  Is that how they managed to shave off 6-7 pounds?

 

But the biggest question is, do these new boards have an audio interface (not sure what it’s called) so that you can easily use outside sounds, like the MODX does, I love how it’s even got a volume knob.  IMO, mid-level boards need to have this modern feature. 

 

To answer a question I posed that no one answered on this forum, these boards are capable of 3 sounds at one, a bass sound and 2 upper sounds.  Not sure if you get use of all 3 voices is you’re simply layering.

  This is a major complaint I have of the ES920.  I’d prefer 4 voices, but at least provide 3, the ES920 only gives you 2 voices to work with.