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Recommendations for getting audio out of a iPad?


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Hello folks,

 

The band I play with wishes to resume practising after taking an extended break due to Covid.

 

I decided to use this resumption as an excuse to buy myself a new iPad (the standard 9th gen. model), which I intend to use as the primary sound generator, eventually replacing my trusty but crusty Nord Electro 3.  I purchased B-3X a little while ago, and intend to add NeoSoul Keys Studio, and hopefully other apps for Pianet and crunchy New Orleans piano (maybe soundfonts would be my best bet?), then control everything via Camelot Pro.  Well, that's the plan, anyway.

 

Currently, my setup consists of the Electro, outputting to an ART Studio V3 tube pre-amp, and then connected to whatever amp or speaker is available to plug into.  I like having the pre-amp as I prefer the tone through the tube (yeah, even if it's purely a placebo...), and the knobs to control input and output volume are also very handy for getting a little extra drive or volume.

 

While waiting for the iPad to arrive, I'm researching how best to integrate this into my current setup.  I'm actually wondering if I can replace the pre-amp with a small external mixer, audio interface, or DI box.  I would like to connect the iPad via Lightning/USB cable (rather than the headphone output), so am looking at products that can accept USB.

 

There is a Behringer Q502USB mixer at a local thrift shop which will probably do the job, however I also like the look of the Roland Rubix22, which I can probably pick-up for around twice the price. I intend to control the iPad from my Nord via Bluetooth MIDI using a Quiccosound mi.1 mkII, however the Rubix would also facilitate connecting via wired MIDI if desired.

 

I don't really need a mixer, nor an audio interface, as I don't intend to connect any additional sound sources (although I guess it could be handy to also connect the Nord's audio output, to use as a fall-back, or to ease the transition over to a fully iPad-based system). However, it seems that in order to get USB audio input, 1/4" (or XLR) output, and still have an easily accessible output volume knob, those are only options.

 

I wonder if there are any other interesting, viable options for getting sound out of the iPad (without using the headphone jack) that I may have overlooked?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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The Rubix is a good unit - I have one for mobile recording when I don't bring the 18i20 rack out. Otherwise USB mixers are great too - I use a Yamaha MG10XU for gigs and the USB audio function works great. It works as a good interface for a laptop to if necessary.

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Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76| Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT, Kurzweil PC4 (88)

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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Thanks Max!

 

Yeah, I quite like the look of the MG mixers.  The MG06 would also be a suitable candidate, however there is no U (USB) variation of that model.

 

As I say, I don't really have an intention to mix lots of audio sources, so it would be difficult to justify all the connectivity of the MG10XU just for outputting sound from one device.

 

Regarding the Rubix, am I correct in thinking that when connected to the iPad via USB, whatever is connected to the MIDI IN/OUT ports (my Electro in this case) would be able to control the VI app that's running?

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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There are four ways to get audio out of an iPad: headphone jack, USB port, bluetooth, wifi.  The last two usually get frowned upon for live music as latency has historically been a problem for many, although I read that newer BT is much better in that regard. 

 

I had been using an inexpensive USB to audio interface, which was also sending along midi and audio from my hardware boards for processing.   If you don't need to do that extra bit, any mixer that can handle USB audio input is handy (no audio interface req'd), as the iPad presents as a pair of stereo audio inputs.  The core pieces of the setup also include a powered camera adapter, a powered hub and an Apple Lightning extension cord to conveniently reach the iPad.

 

A bit OT, but I recently upgraded my band mixer, and started using the previous Behringer XR-18 as a keyboard mixer.  Yeah, it's overkill, but in a great way.  I can feed a large number of inputs into it, including FOH.  I can create 6 separate feeds for the front, and listen along to a custom mix with FOH with IEMs..  There's a full effects rack as well, with the multi-band compressor being especially useful for taming wild key boards.  Not exactly a mainstream keys mixer, but if you see a used one cheap ... lotsa bang for the buck.

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IMO having a headphone output is a huge advantage for an iDevice running virtual insrruments - less dongly stuff hanging off the iPad.

 

On my old iPhone SE (2016) with headphone jack, or my iPad Air 2, I only need the CCK to connect my keyboard and a power source. On my newer iPhone SE 2020 I need that plus a USB hub plus an audio interface. Quite a mess I have going there. I have one of those tiny $8 guys for audio in/out and it's worked fine when I've needed it (which is not often), but it still looks like crap and adds multiple potential failure points to the rig.

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Probably not the solution for you, since it involves a different keyboard, but having a built-in audio interface is probably the best feature (IMO) of the Yamaha Modx.  One usb cable, with camera connection kit, handles midi and audio back and forth between ipad and keyboard, and there is a dedicated volume control on the Modx.

I'll mention that I've very occasionally had glitches with the ipad, where for whatever reason it won't see the Modx midi, or won't output audio.  In such cases, it's very nice to have the hardware sounds available.   Also, you can create splits and layers with internal and ipad sounds in one performance.

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7 hours ago, Kawai James said:

Thanks Max!

 

Yeah, I quite like the look of the MG mixers.  The MG06 would also be a suitable candidate, however there is no U (USB) variation of that model.

 

As I say, I don't really have an intention to mix lots of audio sources, so it would be difficult to justify all the connectivity of the MG10XU just for outputting sound from one device.

 

Regarding the Rubix, am I correct in thinking that when connected to the iPad via USB, whatever is connected to the MIDI IN/OUT ports (my Electro in this case) would be able to control the VI app that's running?

 

Cheers,

James

x

Yes, the midi in/out should work fine with whatever you have connected. One feature I do like of the Rubix is that it can be powered separately OR via bus power. Any of these interfaces can drain an iPad fairly quickly, so having that option is good. 

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Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76| Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT, Kurzweil PC4 (88)

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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12 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

Sabrent usb audio adapter. About $8. And a camera kit with a charge port and USB port.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.  That would certainly be a nice, compact solution, however I'm also seeking the ability to control the output level with a knob/slider.

I should note that the 9th gen. iPad still has the 3.5mm headphone jack, however I'd prefer not to use it.

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Hi cphollis,

 

8 hours ago, cphollis said:

I had been using an inexpensive USB to audio interface, which was also sending along midi and audio from my hardware boards for processing.


Do you recall which device you used?
 

8 hours ago, cphollis said:

 

If you don't need to do that extra bit, any mixer that can handle USB audio input is handy (no audio interface req'd), as the iPad presents as a pair of stereo audio inputs.


Yes, a small mixer with support for USB audio input would do the job.  As I mentioned in my first, I could pick-up a used Behringer Q502USB for around $40~$45, assuming it's still in the thrift shop.  However, I like the idea of having MIDI IN/OUT available also, which is why the Roland Rubix22 ticks a lot of boxes.

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Hi Reezekeys,

 

9 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

IMO having a headphone output is a huge advantage for an iDevice running virtual insrruments - less dongly stuff hanging off the iPad.

 

On my old iPhone SE (2016) with headphone jack, or my iPad Air 2, I only need the CCK to connect my keyboard and a power source. On my newer iPhone SE 2020 I need that plus a USB hub plus an audio interface. Quite a mess I have going there. I have one of those tiny $8 guys for audio in/out and it's worked fine when I've needed it (which is not often), but it still looks like crap and adds multiple potential failure points to the rig.


Yeah, using the iPad's headphone out would work, but...I dunno, maybe I'm just not confident in that 1/8" connector - with musical instrument related stuff, especially plugging into an amp or speakers, I feel more comfortable with regular 1/4" jacks, you know?

 

It's a similar case with those $8 interfaces - maybe they do work fine, but I cannot imagine the circuitry inside being up to much for that price...and yeah, the look doesn't inspire much confidence either.

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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3 minutes ago, Kawai James said:

Hi cphollis,

 


Do you recall which device you used?
 


Yes, a small mixer with support for USB audio input would do the job.  As I mentioned in my first, I could pick-up a used Behringer Q502USB for around $40~$45, assuming it's still in the thrift shop.  However, I like the idea of having MIDI IN/OUT available also, which is why the Roland Rubix22 ticks a lot of boxes.

 

Cheers,

James

x

 

I use either a Behringer Flow 8 digital mixer ( https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0DNM ) which can give you two stereo pairs out...great for when splitting, or using a drum machine/track or the Presonus Studio 24c

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There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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Hi Stokely,

 

8 hours ago, Stokely said:

Probably not the solution for you, since it involves a different keyboard, but having a built-in audio interface is probably the best feature (IMO) of the Yamaha Modx.  One usb cable, with camera connection kit, handles midi and audio back and forth between ipad and keyboard, and there is a dedicated volume control on the Modx.


Yeah, that would be the cleanest solution of all - in the future, that might ultimately be the direction I take, however if I'm going to go all-in on the iPad as the sound source, it's probably overkill to use board that has loads of built-in sounds and additional functionality I'll likely never use.

 

I think I posted this a little while ago, but I'd love to see an iPad musician focussed 73-key MIDI controller with USB audio/midi interface, pedal inputs, *and* 1/4" outputs.  Something like the Numa Compact 2x, but with less keys, and without any sounds.

 

Cheers,

James

x

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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8 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Yes, the midi in/out should work fine with whatever you have connected. One feature I do like of the Rubix is that it can be powered separately OR via bus power. Any of these interfaces can drain an iPad fairly quickly, so having that option is good. 


Cool, thanks for confirming the MIDI.

Could the Rubix be powered by just the iPad itself, or would I need to add additional power via the micro USB?

I even wonder if I could adopt the Electro's USB port (which can only be used to communicate with the Nord Sound Manager tool - no USB-MIDI on the old NE3) and use that as the power source for the Rubix?

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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13 hours ago, Kawai James said:


Do you recall which device you used?

James

 

Yes, it's a desktop-style interface that can be externally powered.  I like it.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MFMFYBP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

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Am I missing something?  I haven't seen Focusrite interfaces mentioned.  The downside of the Scarlett series is some don't have auxillary power, only bus power which would kill the ipad battery.  The Clarett series does have auxilliary power but obviously much more expensive.

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21 minutes ago, SteinwayB said:

Am I missing something?  I haven't seen Focusrite interfaces mentioned.  The downside of the Scarlett series is some don't have auxillary power, only bus power which would kill the ipad battery.  The Clarett series does have auxilliary power but obviously much more expensive.

 For this application (iPad interface), my checklist was (a) external power, (b) midi thru, (c) simple monitor mix knob, (d) great preamps, etc.  Most devices at this price point are bus powered, which means you'll need a beefier powered hub for that and the iPad.

Want to make your band better?  Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band"

 

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2 hours ago, SteinwayB said:

Am I missing something?  I haven't seen Focusrite interfaces mentioned.  The downside of the Scarlett series is some don't have auxillary power, only bus power which would kill the ipad battery.  The Clarett series does have auxilliary power but obviously much more expensive.

 

Not when using a powered hub, or having power supplied to the iPad. I only ever rely on iPad battery at a gig when it's a piano only one and it's ipad audio is direct out to speakers - IE from the headphone jack. TBH, I really cannot tell the difference between the jack and either the Flow or the Presonus, especially through PA speakers!

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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16 hours ago, Kawai James said:

Yeah, using the iPad's headphone out would work, but...I dunno, maybe I'm just not confident in that 1/8" connector - with musical instrument related stuff, especially plugging into an amp or speakers, I feel more comfortable with regular 1/4" jacks, you know?

I've been using the headphone output of my MacBook Pro for about five years, no issues. I wrap the cable around a handle of my SKB case to act as a strain relief in case someone - like a stage tech in a hurry, something I see a lot - manages to trip or pull on the cable.

 

Similarly with my iPad, I have a featherweight 1/8" extension cable that presents no weight at all on the headphone jack. It's wrapped around my iPad holder. The cable that goes to my two K8s plugs into the extension. Anyone tripping over that cable would most likely disconnect it from the extension, and the multiple wraps would protect against any force reaching the jack itself.

 

IMG_1420.jpg.e9bb80995b21b20ef8eb6b7285a3f823.jpg     IMG_1421.jpg.55bfcecfe2c48b1d729a4b01ec004b9b.jpg

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I'm more worried about usb connections onstage. You just have to touch them wrong for your usb keyboard or other controllers to lose sync with your iPad. And leaving your harness assembled can lead to a bad connection in your hub due to it having been awhile since metal scraped metal.

FunMachine.

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1 hour ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

I'm more worried about usb connections onstage. You just have to touch them wrong for your usb keyboard or other controllers to lose sync with your iPad. And leaving your harness assembled can lead to a bad connection in your hub due to it having been awhile since metal scraped metal.

Touch wood this has never happened to me yet.

 

I feel that they are as reliable as any other connection- of course they won't stand up to abuse but treated well I think you'd be safe. 

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4 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

I've been using the headphone output of my MacBook Pro for about five years, no issues. I wrap the cable around a handle of my SKB case to act as a strain relief in case someone - like a stage tech in a hurry, something I see a lot - manages to trip or pull on the cable.

 

Similarly with my iPad, I have a featherweight 1/8" extension cable that presents no weight at all on the headphone jack. It's wrapped around my iPad holder. The cable that goes to my two K8s plugs into the extension. Anyone tripping over that cable would most likely disconnect it from the extension, and the multiple wraps would protect against any force reaching the jack itself.

 

IMG_1420.jpg.e9bb80995b21b20ef8eb6b7285a3f823.jpg     IMG_1421.jpg.55bfcecfe2c48b1d729a4b01ec004b9b.jpg

 

This is doing it right.

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I have the same concerns about using the iPad's 3.5mm phone jack. The exposed plug and relatively short jack invariably produce noise even if the iPad is modestly jostled.

 

So, I'm currently using an unpowered Sabrent USB hub and a SoundBlaster USB adapter. The extra USB ports go to a MIDI controller, USB MIDI expression pedal, etc. The hub connects to iPad (Lightning) through an Apple USB camera connection with Lightning charge port. It's AC powered from an adapter, having bad experience letting the iPad provide power. I also experimented with a Griffin Rockstar instead of the Apple camera connection adapter. A long Lightning extension cable keeps everything out of harms way; the cable on the camera kit adapter is waaaay too short. 

 

If you're looking for a USB mixer from Yamaha, you might consider either the AG06 or AG03. I'm using the AG06 with a desktop and it's rock solid. Only a few channels, but it's versatile and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Yamaha pitch the AGs at podcasting, although the AG06 is essentially a Steinberg I/F and a mixer in a mixer-like format.

 

Hope this helps -- pj

 

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10 hours ago, cphollis said:

Yes, it's a desktop-style interface that can be externally powered.  I like it.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MFMFYBP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Thanks!

That's another potential device to consider.

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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6 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

I've been using the headphone output of my MacBook Pro for about five years, no issues. I wrap the cable around a handle of my SKB case to act as a strain relief in case someone - like a stage tech in a hurry, something I see a lot - manages to trip or pull on the cable.

 

Similarly with my iPad, I have a featherweight 1/8" extension cable that presents no weight at all on the headphone jack. It's wrapped around my iPad holder. The cable that goes to my two K8s plugs into the extension. Anyone tripping over that cable would most likely disconnect it from the extension, and the multiple wraps would protect against any force reaching the jack itself.

 

IMG_1420.jpg.e9bb80995b21b20ef8eb6b7285a3f823.jpg     IMG_1421.jpg.55bfcecfe2c48b1d729a4b01ec004b9b.jpg

Thanks ReezeKeys, that looks very secure.

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Thanks pj!

 

26 minutes ago, pjd said:

So, I'm currently using an unpowered Sabrent USB hub and a SoundBlaster USB adapter. The extra USB ports go to a MIDI controller, USB MIDI expression pedal, etc. The hub connects to iPad (Lightning) through an Apple USB camera connection with Lightning charge port. It's AC powered from an adapter, having bad experience letting the iPad provide power. I also experimented with a Griffin Rockstar instead of the Apple camera connection adapter. A long Lightning extension cable keeps everything out of harms way; the cable on the camera kit adapter is waaaay too short. 

 

I'd like to avoid using a hub, if I can...although it may become inevitable.

I'm not a fan of the Apple camera connector either.  I know it's frowned upon (and possibly unreliable), but I may try to look for a 3rd party alternative that integrates the Apple adapter into a single cable.

 

29 minutes ago, pjd said:

If you're looking for a USB mixer from Yamaha, you might consider either the AG06 or AG03. I'm using the AG06 with a desktop and it's rock solid. Only a few channels, but it's versatile and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Yamaha pitch the AGs at podcasting, although the AG06 is essentially a Steinberg I/F and a mixer in a mixer-like format.

 

Yeah, I stumbled upon the AG06 after eventually realising that Yamaha does not produce an MG06U.  For some reason (the popularity of streaming/podcasting?), the AG devices are a fair bit more expensive than the MGs over here - the AG03 is twice the price of the MG06, and a little more expensive than even the MG10U.  I'm sure it would be a reliable device, but I still like the idea of having 5-PIN MIDI, so it seems the Roland (or cphollis' Tascam) ticks the required boxes.

 

Cheers,

James

x

 

 

Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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34 minutes ago, Kawai James said:

I'd like to avoid using a hub, if I can...although it may become inevitable.

I'm not a fan of the Apple camera connector either.  I know it's frowned upon (and possibly unreliable), but I may try to look for a 3rd party alternative that integrates the Apple adapter into a single cable.

 

It's not possible (that I know of) All you can get is the short cable (about 6-7") or a dongle. And I ONLY buy genuine apple from Apple. It's the 3rd party gear that's dodgy! Been using apple connectors since the old 30 pin connector - never an issue with genuine, had many issues with the "flakiness" of 3rd party. A second point to make is that Apple gives a 100% guarantee on their gear that it is fully compatible and works...3rd party you often get "should work" :D

 

A small powered hub can make so many things possible. I have a little Swann unit - about 2 1/2" x 1" had it for years and its worked without issue...

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There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

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1 hour ago, Kawai James said:

I'm not a fan of the Apple camera connector either.  I know it's frowned upon (and possibly unreliable), but I may try to look for a 3rd party alternative that integrates the Apple adapter into a single cable.

 

I thought the opposite was true - 3rd party lightning accessories can be unreliable and break when iOS is updated. I tried a 3rd-party dongle that was similar to the CCK but added a 3.5mm audio jack. It was about 1/3 the price of the Apple CCK but the audio sounded terrible; I returned it.

 

2 hours ago, pjd said:

The exposed plug and relatively short jack invariably produce noise even if the iPad is modestly jostled.

 

I've never experienced this with my iPad, or the headphone jack of my MacBook Pro. My iPad get jostled pretty good on gigs too. And what about the plug is "exposed", I don't understand this. I'm not seeing any issues with my 3.5mm connections. What am I missing here?

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