Can we talk about the Roland VR 700 again?

[seratone]

I had one around 12 years ago. I played tons of gigs with it, many of which I can't remember - I also used it on 2 or 3 albums. I replaced it with Nord Electro 4d in 2014 ( was a sucker for the Mellotron patch) I've always missed it. A few have showed up for sale locally (but still pretty far away)  and I've been tempted purchase one again - I recall the keybed being amazing, and the fact it had B3, Piano, Electric Piano and Warm Pad all on the same machine - Now  - my tastes in sound quality have likely improved over the years. I have a feeling all these sounds will appear very dated when I hear them again. Has anyone had a recent 'go' on one? I think I'm secretly looking for negative reviews - I want to be talked out of this - I have a feeling it's an 'emotional memory' purchase - and it's tricky to have a 'play' before buying used these days.

[Stokely]

I gigged with one.  The keybed is indeed excellent, and to my ear the organ sound is pretty much the same in the new Fantom.  I think it's a very good sound, perhaps not "authentic" but it always worked very well for me in a rock band.  I wouldn't hesitate having that be my main organ sound again I'm currently using B-3x from an ipad through my MODX, and it is the best sound I've ever used....but not the best user interface by a long shot.  In fact the MODX doesn't make a great organ controller due to the lack of drawbars, though the light shallow keys aren't all that bad for organ.

The ensemble sounds were hit and miss.  I'm not much of a keyboard horn player (it's something I avoid if possible) but the horns worked ok for me as did the strings and the Rhodes.   Piano...not so much.  I don't think I ever used any of the synth sounds.  At most I only ever used two patches, one for almost everything and one specifically for Blue Collar Man that had a different more crunchy organ!     Just with one patch you could do a lot on the fly though.

Overall it was too big and heavy for what I really used it for, which was mainly organ.   Ironically my next keyboard was also an Electro (6).  Way more compact and more versatile; I probably preferred the Nord organ slightly, every other sound wasn't even close in favor of the Nord...but much preferred the keybed on the VR700.   I'm not really an organist that plays the drawbars (like say John Medeski, who is constantly tweaking them) but for someone who does the VR700 would be much better than the Nord draw-faders.  Unfortunately the drawbars don't send midi ccs so you couldn't easily use them to control software organs...if it could, I might have been more tempted to keep it around.  Really dumb decision by Roland especially considering their older vk8 does send midi ccs iirc.

[ElmerJFudd]

It debuted around 2010, so old but not ancient.  I still use mine.  In band context it does fine on bread and butter sounds.  Solo, the acoustic piano doesn’t have the depth of detail you get from some newer boards or software.  But the rest… it’s Roland PCM stuff, lol.  They’ll be recycling this stuff forever.  
 

The action is excellent and it’s easy to use which is why I keep it.  But it’s not a great controller, for example, the drawbars don’t send CCs, you need a conversion box to change/translate those sysex messages.  It is also heavier than the current crop - but that’s because it’s built well, has internal power supply, xlr outs, etc.  If I switch to a VR-730 I lose the action, which is unfortunate.  

[RABid]

I'm sure it is an emotional memory purchase, but sometimes those are the best. Going back to that organ will probably be a disappointment, but one that can be countered with a good outboard Leslie pedal. When I start feeling the pull of an emotional purchase I opt for a software version. Don't know that you can find a software version of the VR700.

[ElmerJFudd]

2 minutes ago, RABid said:

I'm sure it is an emotional memory purchase, but sometimes those are the best. Going back to that organ will probably be a disappointment, but one that can be countered with a good outboard Leslie pedal. When I start feeling the pull of an emotional purchase I opt for a software version. Don't know that you can find a software version of the VR700.

Roland SRX stuff is available in the Roland Cloud.  As is a virtual XV-5080. For the tone wheel organ - we’ve no shortage of options in software although I realize maybe not Roland’s engine.  I wonder if that will eventually show up in the cloud as well. 

[LX 88]

I am always up for chat about older Rolands. Some people hate them who tend to like Hammond Suzuki....especially if they have connections to that company( hint)'

 

Havent seen a 700 for awhile....are keys similar to VK8?  More to say on this when I have time.

[AnotherScott]

Yes, VR700 keys feel like the VK8, as far as I can tell, though a different color (yellower on the VK).

[Mighty Ferguson]

I still have a VR-700, but I haven’t touched it in quite a while.  I’ve been on the fence about selling it. I don’t really have a use for it right now, but the keybed is so good, plus a set of drawbars (that need a MIDI Solutions box to change to Sysex as mentioned above), etc…. I haven’t been able to bring myself to part with it. I have a digital CX-3 that’s also in that situation, but for reasons other than the keybed on that one.

[Al Coda]

3 hours ago, Mighty Ferguson said:

but the keybed is so good, plus a set of drawbars (that need a MIDI Solutions box to change to Sysex as mentioned above),

 

Keybed is important, and when it feels like VK8, it´s good and might be a reason to keep the machine.

 

But the MIDI conversion thingy is the opposite,-

quote from above:

 

"the drawbars don’t send CCs, you need a conversion box to change/translate those sysex messages" ...

 

means,- the drawbars transmit MIDI-SysEx which for other purposes need to be translated to MIDI CCs.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

 

[Mighty Ferguson]

20 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

Keybed is important, and when it feels like VK8, it´s good and might be a reason to keep the machine.

 

But the MIDI conversion thingy is the opposite,-

quote from above:

 

"the drawbars don’t send CCs, you need a conversion box to change/translate those sysex messages" ...

 

means,- the drawbars transmit MIDI-SysEx which for other purposes need to be translated to MIDI CCs.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

 

You're right  - I got the drawbar translation thing backwards. Did I mention I haven't used it in a while? 😉  Anyway, at the time I used the MIDI Solutions box to translate the drawbars from Sysex to CC to control the CX-3 engine in the Kronos I was using at that point.  Maybe I'll set it up again and try it with IK B3-X, which I'm using now with MainStage. A VR-700 with B3-X would be pretty good I think.

 

Speaking of the keybed, I don't think anyone above mentioned this but the VR-700 also can transmit with a high trigger point (which there's a separate thread discussing now), which makes it even better for outboard sounds.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, Mighty Ferguson said:

You're right  - I got the drawbar translation thing backwards. Did I mention I haven't used it in a while? 😉  Anyway, at the time I used the MIDI Solutions box to translate the drawbars from Sysex to CC to control the CX-3 engine in the Kronos I was using at that point.  Maybe I'll set it up again and try it with IK B3-X, which I'm using now with MainStage. A VR-700 with B3-X would be pretty good I think.

 

Speaking of the keybed, I don't think anyone above mentioned this but the VR-700 also can transmit with a high trigger point (which there's a separate thread discussing now), which makes it even better for outboard sounds.

It shifts to doing high trigger when you’re in organ mode?  Or it’s a user defined parameter?  
 

My plan was also to be able to use with B3X on recording projects.  Live, with band.  Onboard is good enough.  

[Mighty Ferguson]

On 6/13/2022 at 2:45 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

It shifts to doing high trigger when you’re in organ mode?  Or it’s a user defined parameter?  
 

My plan was also to be able to use with B3X on recording projects.  Live, with band.  Onboard is good enough.  

 

Correct - when you're in organ mode it transmits the high trigger point without being velocity sensitive. When you're in the voice mode, it's the normal velocity sensitive output.  When I used it with the Kronos, I was able to have it switch between the modes depending on the Kronos Combi I was using.  

 

If you're using it live with the onboard sound, you may want to consider adding a Ventilator or Lester K  pedal.  It would be a bit more effort to enable/bypass it each time you switch in/out of organ mode, however it really helps the sound.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 minute ago, Mighty Ferguson said:

 

Correct - when you're in organ mode it transmits the high trigger point without being velocity sensitive. When you're in the voice mode, it's the normal velocity sensitive output.  When I used it with the Kronos, I was able to have it switch between the modes depending on the Kronos Combi I was using.  

 

If you're using it live with the onboard sound, you may want to consider adding a Ventilator or Lester K  pedal.  It would be a bit more effort to enable/bypass it each time you switch in/out of organ mode, however it really helps the sound.

High trigger on midi out, yet another reason to hold on to it.  👍  I also agree, most organ clones sound very good through a real Leslie or very good Leslie sim.  

[JoJoB3]

Side VR Question - is there a Roland VR series (09, 730, etc) 'sound module' out there?  One like it?

I would prefer that over buying either of these boards.  Portable, simple, decent sounding, and not tied to their terrible keybed (VR-09 espec) and format. Seems like (another) wasted opportunity by Roland.

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

Side VR Question - is there a Roland VR series (09, 730, etc) 'sound module' out there?  One like it?

I would prefer that over buying either of these boards.  Portable, simple, decent sounding, and not tied to their terrible keybed (VR-09 espec) and format. Seems like (another) wasted opportunity by Roland.

Ya Roland did a desktop some years ago.  VK-8M

 

https://www.roland.com/us/products/vk-8m/

[AnotherScott]

VK-8M is still a nice module... but it is just organ, and doesn't give you the other VR series sounds, if you need them.

 

For something more fully-rounded, maybe a Gemini module, with either optional drawbars, or controlling the drawbars from sliders that may be on your controlling keyboard...?

[kaptainkeys]

A Dexibell SX8 could also be a viable option if you want something with more synth sounds and the ability to load user samples, and also has 4 parts of multitimbrality rather than 2 in the Gemini.

[ElmerJFudd]

21 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

VK-8M is still a nice module... but it is just organ, and doesn't give you the other VR series sounds, if you need them.

 

For something more fully-rounded, maybe a Gemini module, with either optional drawbars, or controlling the drawbars from sliders that may be on your controlling keyboard...?

VK-8M paired with an XV-5080. The nostalgia is palpable!  Or if on a budget - JV-1010 or 2080.  

[AnotherScott]

Y

17 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

VK-8M paired with an XV-5080. 

I think the VR-09/730 "rompler" sounds are of the later Fantom era, so maybe Sonic Cell (if not Fantom XR) rather than XV-5080. But that still leaves you without the SuperNATURAL Synth. The Integra has that (and more), but its organ isn't as good, and it doesn't have those Fantom sounds (but it does have XV-5080 sounds). No combination is quite a match!

[kaptainkeys]

One thing all the other options have that the VR doesn't have is the ability to have 2 pianos and 2 synth sounds all layered at the same time, like if you wanted to layer an AP, EP, pad, and string all at the same time- the JV, XV, XR, and Integra all do that no problem, but the VRs can't.

[AnotherScott]

15 minutes ago, GotKeys said:

One thing all the other options have that the VR doesn't have is the ability to have 2 pianos and 2 synth sounds all layered at the same time, like if you wanted to layer an AP, EP, pad, and string all at the same time- the JV, XV, XR, and Integra all do that no problem, but the VRs can't.

As shipped, the VR09/VR730 plays a maximum of two sounds at once (and they cannot have different effects),  though you can go beyond that with this... https://ctrlr.org/roland-vr09-vr730-v-combo-editor/

[franky64]

On 6/16/2022 at 4:33 AM, AnotherScott said:

As shipped, the VR09/VR730 plays a maximum of two sounds at once (and they cannot have different effects),  though you can go beyond that with this... https://ctrlr.org/roland-vr09-vr730-v-combo-editor/

 

don't want to be annoying in any way  .... but please don't reference ctrlr.org anymore: the website is abandoned by its owner and 'out off date'
VR09/730 editor is here: https://v-combo.webspace.rocks/editor-vr09-730

VR700 editor (which adds 'hidden' functionality to 700) is here:  https://v-combo.webspace.rocks/roland-vr700-v-combo-editor

[Paul Woodward]

On 6/15/2022 at 11:48 PM, JoJoB3 said:

Side VR Question - is there a Roland VR series (09, 730, etc) 'sound module' out there?  One like it?

I would prefer that over buying either of these boards.  Portable, simple, decent sounding, and not tied to their terrible keybed (VR-09 espec) and format. Seems like (another) wasted opportunity by Roland.

Or a Roland A800 (same keybed as VR09) and an iPad. Cheap, flexible and choose/change your preferred app at will. You even have sliders that can be assigned to work like those on the VR (although I never figured it out properly)…

[Paul Woodward]

I do think though that the VR09 offers the best bang for buck especially when bought at low cost. Yes, acoustic pianos are basic but they cut through a mix for rock playing. Same with the organ and rhodes, and I got some big synth sounds out of it as well. Using the editor @franky64 mentioned, I found some incredible Blade Runner patches using three sounds. Really were impressive.

I got a VR for just £300 with case and stand, also had the Yamaha YC61 (which cost almost 5x). Sold the VR and kept the YC but regretted it (that bloody keybed) so that went as well. Guess which one I am looking at getting again?

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Saw this semi-recent resurrection of this zombie thread; made me miss my VR-700 (it's still around, just in the custody of a bass player I worked with a lot before the pandemic). Mine was in pretty rough shape when I bought it, used, for $500 at the local music store, and it only got more raggedy; by the time I replaced it (also with a Nord Electro 4D) its pitch would waver at random, and if the volume knob got jostled you could lose output entirely.

 

But it was my first real gigging organ, and I do miss having a 70-something key board with a waterfall action that I could actually cover an entire gig with (that means organ, piano, electric piano, clav, and even some moderately-tweakable synth patches). Plus, when I used the D-Beam controller to change the Leslie speed, everyone thought I was using The Force. A great axe!

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, SamuelBLupowitz said:

But it was my first real gigging organ, and I do miss having a 70-something key board with a waterfall action that I could actually cover an entire gig with (that means organ, piano, electric piano, clav, and even some moderately-tweakable synth patches).

Nord Electro (depending on your definition of "moderately-tweakable") or Stage, and Hammond SK73 are today's contenders. 

 

2 hours ago, SamuelBLupowitz said:

Plus, when I used the D-Beam controller to change the Leslie speed, everyone thought I was using The Force. A great axe!

Roland VR730 has the D-Beam and everything else you need, but not the waterfall action I believe.

 

The action on the VR700 (and the earlier VR760) made it super-desirable.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

Nord Electro (depending on your definition of "moderately-tweakable") or Stage, and Hammond SK73 are today's contenders. 

 

Roland VR730 has the D-Beam and everything else you need, but not the waterfall action I believe.

 

The action on the VR700 (and the earlier VR760) made it super-desirable.

 

Cheers, Mike.

I played the VR-730 in the shop.  It’s basically a VR-09 in 76 keys.  The keyboard is not the same  lovely semiweight synth action  with waterfall keys you find on the 700.  But they do say in the specs that it is a “semiweight synth action with waterfall keys.” It feels more like a XK-3 to me, which isn’t terrible, but the keys are shorter so not as nice for piano playing. 
 

Some useful features on the 730 - SMF, WAV, AIFF and MP3 Playback.  
 

A GM Sound Set - even if not great, you will find a tone you need in a pinch.  
 

There’s a synth engine, but you need an iPad to edit it. 
 

The 730 is lighter than the 700, 21lbs and can run on batteries. 

 

Common complaints on all the VRs is no aux out to separate the organ from other patches.  The faders don't send CCs but rather sysex data and you need a translator to make use of them.
 

MeXKeys on YouTube has one and clearly demonstrates that for the price, especially in band context, it’s impressive.  
 

 

 

 

[stoken6]

Am I right that the 730 has more EPs than the 09? 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ElmerJFudd]

11 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Am I right that the 730 has more EPs than the 09? 

 

Cheers, Mike.

They share a manual, editor and majority of sounds.  There are a few timbres that are 730 only.   And some that made it over to the VR09 in a firmware update.  

 

Here are the 730 only patches.

PIANO - Juno Piano, Y2K Concerto

E.PIANO - '75 Tine EP, Pure EP Trem, Water EP

OTHERS - D50 Fantasia, Fantasia JV, XV Crystal

SYNTH BRASS - X Brs Sect, Sax Section

SYNTH LEAD - Pure Sine LD, Android, PS Sync Lead, Square Ld 3, Searing COSM, Pluck Synth, 

BASS - Electro Bass, Chow Bs, Chorus Bass, Foundation

OTHERS - Steel Away, Pastoral 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

43 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I played the VR-730 in the shop.  It’s basically a VR-09 in 76 keys.  The keyboard is not the same  lovely semiweight synth action  with waterfall keys you find on the 700.  But they do say in the specs that it is a “semiweight synth action with waterfall keys.”

From what I've read, the VR-730 uses the ubiquitous Fatar TP-8O.