Have You Tuned a Piano?

[Greg Mein]

We moved halfway across the country last September to a warmer, dryer climate. We knew the change would have an effect on the Steinway and had a humidifier unit installed in it by a piano tuner that comes over from Las Vegas. Having him come over is expensive of course and the piano has been having some subsequent tuning issues so I bought a wrench and have done some tweaking on it myself. 

Now I'm thinking I should go ahead and get some mute wedges and just learn to tune it myself, after all, I'm retired, have all day, play it frequently and have been playing the piano since I was five. Overall the necessary tools appear simple and inexpensive although I'll probably want to invest in a more professional tuner unit.

 

I don't have any experience but am willing, and somewhat eager, to learn. I've discovered some on-line resources and I'm sure there is much more information available but would also be interested to learn of any techniques, tools or advice from those with experience here if you'd care to share. 

[KuruPrionz]

Google "stretch tuning", this is probably the trickiest part of tuning a piano.

http://pianotuninginyork.blogspot.com/2020/05/octave-stretching-and-tuning-piano.html

 

I'd recommennd a Peterson digital strobe tuner, I've got one I paid $260 for back in 2002 or so and it works flawlessly today. It's more than paid for itself. 
I'm a guitar tech but I'm certain you could use one for piano as well. You will want to set up a microphone with the tuner. 

 

I just used a soundhole pickup since I was only tweaking guitars. Pop it in, dial in the guitar, pop it back out. 

[Anderton]

Greg, maybe you can split the difference between DIY and hire-a-professional - hire a professional to show you how to do it.

 

However, bear in mind tuning a piano is not trivial. I've worked a lot in the past with Spencer Brewer, who has worked on pianos for Duke Ellington, Lyle Mays, Count Basic, Oscar Peterson, etc. etc. He is not only an incredible player, but knowledgeable about pianos from a technical standpoint. I would have to say that when he tunes pianos, there's decades of experience behind it. 

[Greg Mein]

For a little more context our pro is still on a schedule with us. Overall the piano is in fine form, where I've had a little trouble is with a couple lower strings; B1 which had actually been a problem before we moved and now F#1 seems to be a little problematic. I've tweaked on those a bit. It's not something I'm going full head on into, I'm just "dabbling" into it so far. I already have a couple of wrenches and I'll go ahead and order the mute wedges so I have that stuff. 

 

From a mechanical standpoint it's an easy instrument to tinker with.

 

 

3C45992E-C952-4446-B2CA-383EDA9CAC60.heic

[KenElevenShadows]

I have never tuned a piano. Or a fish.

[KenElevenShadows]

On 5/27/2022 at 5:05 PM, The Real MC said:

Trust me do not attempt to tune a piano without proper training.

I tried years ago, and no digital strobe tuner is going to work.  Strobe tuners focus on the fundamental - fine on a guitar, but the piano strings have less fundamental and piles of inharmonics that the strobe tuner will not pick up, thus it is the wrong tool for the job.

This is one case where the job is best left to a trained competent professional.

 

I've heard this from quite a few people also. It's not easy, and there's also a lot of artistry involved.

[Anderton]

There's also an incredible amount of tension on the frame, from all those strings. 

[Joe Muscara]

I've owned two acoustic pianos and tuned them both myself. It can be a fussy task and even though I use a digital tuner, I also use my ears. The first piano was very old, a relatively unknown brand, and I also cleaned up the action quite a bit over time to improve it. It started out very gummed up and heavy feeling and I think it was much more playable when I was finished with it.

 

The newer piano is a Kawai that's in great shape, but I still tune it myself most of the time. In both cases, I use the TuneLab app for iOS. There are one or two others, and they're very pricey ($300.00 for TuneLab) especially when iOS apps are usually free or a couple of bucks . There are versions for Android and Windows as well. These apps are used by professional tuners. They do the stretch tuning, and have options to select the stretch you prefer. Spending that money made sense to me since I more than saved that amount by tuning my pianos myself over the years.

 

Some professional tuners just use tuning apps or tuners to do the temperament octave and do the rest by counting beats the traditional way. However, you can do like I do and tune the whole thing with the tuner app.

 

The classic text on piano tuning is called Piano Tuning by Jerry Cree Fischer and is so old that it's out of copyright. You should be able to find a copy online.

 

Another great book is Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding: A Guide for the Professional, Student, and Hobbyist by Arthur Reblitz. This is a great reference if you're going to tune as well as do other work.

 

Like anything, if you're not willing or comfortable to do more than some touch-ups, I'm not here to suggest you do it. I'm technical, mechanical, like working on my stuff, and even considered going into the field at one point. It's not for everyone.

[Greg Mein]

23 hours ago, Joe Muscara said:

The classic text on piano tuning is called Piano Tuning by Jerry Cree Fischer and is so old that it's out of copyright. You should be able to find a copy online.

 

Another great book is Piano Servicing, Tuning, and Rebuilding: A Guide for the Professional, Student, and Hobbyist by Arthur Reblitz. This is a great reference if you're going to tune as well as do other work.

Great info, thanks! I was able to get the Jerry Fischer book free for Kindle on my iPad at Amazon, I suspect it will be very informative. I've seen a little on some apps, I'll be looking into that also, thanks for that suggestion.

[Anderton]

Sounds like the replies people give about mastering - "leave it to the professionals, there's no way you can do it yourself" and "of course you can do it, you just have to be good at identifying issues, then knowing how to fix them."

 

I think I'll be sticking with sampled pianos Couldn't fit an acoustic one in here anyway!

[KuruPrionz]

5 hours ago, Anderton said:

I think I'll be sticking with sampled pianos Couldn't fit an acoustic one in here anyway!

Me either!!!!

[Joe Muscara]

I moved so my acoustic would fit better!  

[BMD]

I work with a professional piano tuner. He's one of the best in the UK. He's partially-sighted and I'm his driver

 

During the 15 months or so I've worked with him he's shared with me some horror stories of people who've tried to tune their own pianos. Eventually they see sense and call on the services of a professional. Would you perform your own open heart surgery? Of course not. Then why would you attempt to tune your own piano?

 

It's a meinfield, Greg. Don't do it...

[Anderton]

Hey Mark - I was hoping you'd chime in! I'm glad to see you still have your gig with him. Seems like it's going well for you.

[KuruPrionz]

On 6/1/2022 at 2:56 PM, Anderton said:

Sounds like the replies people give about mastering - "leave it to the professionals, there's no way you can do it yourself" and "of course you can do it, you just have to be good at identifying issues, then knowing how to fix them."

 

I think I'll be sticking with sampled pianos Couldn't fit an acoustic one in here anyway!

Yep, "Nobody should work on pianos except these guys that didn't know how to work on pianos but now they work on pianos."

 

I started repairing guitars when I was about 15-16 years old. Information was scarce on the ground. Dad was a master cabinet maker and I'd been raised using tools and woods. 

I won't say I made zero mistakes but nothing died and everything got fixed. I started on my own guitars, Greg wants to start on his own piano. I accept it and wish him well. 

We would hear a LOT more about "20 tons of pressure exploding pianos" if they did it often enough. They don't, in fact I've never heard of it happening once without somebody intentionally causing it. This one didn't explode.

 

[Anderton]

14 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Yep, "Nobody should work on pianos except these guys that didn't know how to work on pianos but now they work on pianos."

 

Well, as you know, I'm a major proponent of DIY. Greg is a smart guy, so he'll know when things are going right, and he'll know when to quit if things go south. 

 

Part of DIY is it becomes kind of a hobby. Hobbies can be difficult and/or challenging if you like that kind of thing. But sometimes, at some point, it's just not worth the effort. I used to do most of the work on my car - tuneups, timing, plugs, point, brake pads, etc. Now I don't do any work on my car because it's just too complex. 

 

If I had an acoustic piano, I'd take the same approach I did with mixing. I watched enough world-class engineers mix that I figured out how to do it. I'm sure that after watching a pro piano tuner for a while, and getting the right tools, I could do it myself. But I could also let someone else tune it, and spend the time it would take to tune it on playing it

 

I know Henry J's self-tuning guitars got a lot of flak, but I have to say, it's great to be able to push a button and be back in tune, and playing, in a few seconds. Now, if pianos were self-tuning...oh well, we have samples for that! 

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

4 minutes ago, Anderton said:

 

Well, as you know, I'm a major proponent of DIY. Greg is a smart guy, so he'll know when things are going right, and he'll know when to quit if things go south. 

 

Part of DIY is it becomes kind of a hobby. Hobbies can be difficult and/or challenging if you like that kind of thing. But sometimes, at some point, it's just not worth the effort. I used to do most of the work on my car - tuneups, timing, plugs, point, brake pads, etc. Now I don't do any work on my car because it's just too complex. 

 

If I had an acoustic piano, I'd take the same approach I did with mixing. I watched enough world-class engineers mix that I figured out how to do it. I'm sure that after watching a pro piano tuner for a while, and getting the right tools, I could do it myself. But I could also let someone else tune it, and spend the time it would take to tune it on playing it

 

I know Henry J's self-tuning guitars got a lot of flak, but I have to say, it's great to be able to push a button and be back in tune, and playing, in a few seconds. Now, if pianos were self-tuning...oh well, we have samples for that! 

 

 

I'm hugely DIY up to a point. I used to fix my own cars too but swapping carbs on a 63 Valient is completely different (and much simpler) than tweaking a modern fuel delivery system. I don't do my own vehicle maintenance anymore. 

 

Back in the day I did a few speaker swaps and all of a sudden people thought/wanted that I was an amp tech. I set them straight on that one quickly, I have neither the knowledge or the tools to repair amps and I don't want to besides. 

Since cataract surgery has given me fantastic far vision and removed my almost microscopic absurdly nearsighted close up vision, my days of fixing guitars are winding down. 

I have a few projects of my own and I'll take on some work from friends but I'm looking forward to having all of my own projects done and not taking on those jobs anymore. 

 

Mostly now I just want to play music of one sort or another. 

Greg should be fine, it sounds like he is keeping up on the minor tweaks and that will save him a chunk of $$$, practical and smart way to go about things in my opinion. 

[Joe Muscara]

I know several piano techs in my area, and I don't know what it is about me, but they look at me and encourage me to work on it myself.  I have had one over to tune mine a few times, just to get someone else to do it, fresh set of ears, make sure everything else seems okay, etc.

 

If someone thinks they should do it because tunings cost too much money, but they have no aptitude, they should probably rethink it. But if someone is technical enough with this kind of thing and knows their limits, go for it. It's not open heart surgery. It's not even brake repair.

 

 

21 hours ago, BMD said:

It's a meinfield, Greg. Don't do it...

 

[Threadslayer]

18 minutes ago, Joe Muscara said:

... But if someone is technical enough with this kind of thing and knows their limits, go for it. It's not open heart surgery. It's not even brake repair.

 

I totally agree. I learned to tune pianos because I had to. I used to gig a Baldwin Electropiano and after a few one-nighters it would get pretty jangly so I'd tune up the unisons at least every couple of nights, then do the whole thing once a month or so. It wasn't long before I was tuning my upright at home too. Not hard at all. It just takes patience. And, I never broke a string.

[Anderton]

However, I did tune pianos in the past, if you count dripping solder on and/or filing the tines of Wurlitzer electric pianos...what a PITA!

[Greg Mein]

22 hours ago, Joe Muscara said:

I moved so my acoustic would fit better!  

 

It was imperative to find a place with the proper space when we moved, the 1920 Steinway is essential to life for both my wife and I!

 

To date all I've ever used on my recordings are digital keyboards and software (in respect to piano sounds), it's certainly more convenient and easy but I have a strong desire to record this piano and recently had a song pour out of me that will be a great one to try. I'm going to take a decidedly old school approach, ie; roll the studio boom over the top, perhaps a room mic or two, no click track, record direct into Logic and just try to narrow in on the best sound.

 

 The song and lyrics are fully formed at this point but I'm still tweaking on fills. I'm looking at getting a small interface and using my MBP in the front room rather than trying to run cables and record from the studio room (which has seen no progress in getting set up anyway).

I'll likely wait until after the next time the pro tunes it before I record.

 

Obviously no one would dispute that tuning is a big task, most keys have three strings, some lower ones have two and only the lowest have just one. Pads stop at E6, bass strings up to Bb2 are installed at a 20-30 degree angle over the top of a few others and the highest strings are only a few inches long. From a mechanical standpoint it's a fascinating machine to observe and being a grand is all easy to see and access.

Being retired now basically anything I do can be considered a hobby and aside from some minor tweaking I've done, I hope I'm intelligent enough to know when/if I start digging myself into a hole if I pursue further.