Delisting of Korg Grandstage

[Lazerlike42]

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

interestingly,  Korg's M1 piano became so popular that it has become preset across manufacturers.😁

 

it's par for the course on a Keyboard forum to dive into the weeds when it comes to sampled sounds, features and functionality from one product to another. 

 

The technology has gotten incrementally better over time.  It will never be perfect underneath the fingertips and to the ears of some folks. 

 

However, talented and creative musicians have consistently made these tools work beyond its limitations.  Some of these folks are so good that they can turn a mundane sample into a multimillion dollar sound.

 

House music producers took the aforementioned M1 piano sound up the charts.  Timbaland extracted gold from an Ensoniq ASR10.  J. Dilla unearthed diamonds with an Akai MPC. 

 

A countless number of musicians have put the same  KBs being discussed in this thread on an X stand or in a in a shell and performed for millions of people. 

 

I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle regarding an real or perceived limitations of an instrument or sound. 

 

The objective should be to make best use of the tools available in either sound design or playing music or both.  😎

 

There's certainly truth to the idea that a good musician can make good music out of just about any sound, but I don't think that's ultimately the point of discussing the similarity of an electronic instrument to the acoustic it's based on. 

 

Mozart would have written great and timeless music if the only instruments available were winds, of course, but that wouldn't mean that he would be unjustified in wishing he had strings as well. 

 

If I want to perform piano music but the closest thing I have is an RD1000, I might still be able to make some good music, but that doesn't mean there's no value in or reason for wanting something that sounds closer to a real piano.

[ProfD]

22 minutes ago, Lazerlike42 said:

I don't think that's ultimately the point of discussing the similarity of an electronic instrument to the acoustic it's based on. 

 

Mozart would have written great and timeless music if the only instruments available were winds, of course, but that wouldn't mean that he would be unjustified in wishing he had strings as well. 

 

If I want to perform piano music but the closest thing I have is an RD1000, I might still be able to make some good music, but that doesn't mean there's no value in or reason for wanting something that sounds closer to a real piano.

Sure.  That's why I offered up par for the course on a forum.  It is a great place to discuss the finer points, er, similarities and differences between instruments, sounds, etc.

 

I believe Mozart used whatever sounds were available to realize the compositions that started in his head.

 

Wishing for sound(s) that either do not exist and/or are unobtainable do not benefit a creative person.

 

The point of my commentary is aimed at musicians who may get bogged down in gear analysis/paralysis. 

 

Do not let want/need for better or more musical instrument technology be an impediment to creating and playing music.  😎

[Docbop]

All the old classical cats didn't have orchestras at their beck and call to hear what something sounded like.   They wrote based on sounds in their heads and put it to paper.    Kind of interesting to think about if the old classic dude has synths, libraries, and DAWs how it would of changed what they wrote or would it still be about what is in their head. 

[LarsHarner2]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:15 AM, Stokely said:

I remember someone brought an M1 into the studio at my college, I'd guess it was 1989 or 1990.  Everyone was going nuts over it.  The piano, the effects onboard, etc!  Ironically, thinking back now, we had some cool analog gear including an oberheim rack unit that nobody paid much attention to.  Analog was so outdated by then   

I remember in '91 someone on my floor having the M1. I brought my Yamaha synth to college- had AWM. A friend of mine had the T3 which i really loved with the floppy disk and 8 track sequencer.

I was able to try the grandstage out once, I personally would have been more interested in it if there had been a model with speakers.

I'm using a ES8- i almost think they considered the Grandstage redundant once the SV2 appeared.

 

[AnotherScott]

On 4/14/2022 at 3:44 PM, jimkost2002 said:

Even though the Kronos/SV/Grandstage have the RH3 action, they all feel different because of the different housing and bracing in each machine.

I’ve owned 2 Kronos (a 73 and an 88), currently own a Nautilus 88 and have played many different Grandstages and SV’s from backline companies and studios.

 

You mentioned housing/bracing differences, which could be a factor, but even without that, there are other reasons they feel different... the Kronos landing likely feels different because of the presence of the aftertouch strip... the SV1 was shipped with RH3 actions from different sources (the later ones being made in Japan)... and there was a tweak after the early Kronos models (which I think used the Japanese version from the later SV1) that made note cutoffs less likely to happen which also is said to have altered the feel (possibly also relevant to later SV1... and then the later Kronos models and presumably Grandstage and SV2 all would have had that fix applied). 

 

So not only can different keyboard models with RH3 feel different from each other, but even the same RH3-based model (at least SV1 and Kronos) made at different times could feel different from each other.

 

I'm curious as to whether anyone can chime in with what the Grandstage felt like, compared to other RH3 models... e.g. did it feel like some other RH3 board you've played?

[Paul Woodward]

As I mentioned in a similar thread, I had Kronos 73 and 88 and really didn’t like either of them. I was using Yamaha boards at the time and never saw any interest in Korg pianos. I thought the Kronos 88 might replace a CP4 but it got sold, same with the 73. Just a fluke that I got the GS but, when a CP88 came along and I tried it, I declined the upgrade and stuck with the GS. It’s a genuine pleasure to play.

[drawback]

I had a GrandStage 73 and liked the RH3 so much that I sold it to buy a Kronos2 73, presuming the actions were identical. As far as I can tell, they are. Still loving it.

[ProfD]

A nearly 2 year old thread was resurrected to address this issue instead of starting  a new one or adding it the GrandStage X thread.🤣😎

[Paul Woodward]

2 minutes ago, drawback said:

I had a GrandStage 73 and liked the RH3 so much that I sold it to buy a Kronos2 73, presuming the actions were identical. As far as I can tell, they are. Still loving it.

Mine were the original Kronos so it’s likely the Kronos 2 is more like the GS keybed?

[Paul Woodward]

1 minute ago, ProfD said:

A nearly 2 year old thread was resurrected to address this issue instead of starting  a new one or adding it the GrandStage X thread.🤣😎

Thought the same when I saw it, but it’s more pertinent to this thread than the GSX thread, surely?

[ProfD]

43 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Thought the same when I saw it, but it’s more pertinent to this thread than the GSX thread, surely?

Right.  A new thread with less pages would have been better. 😁

 

I'd imagine  @AnotherScott has a reason for digging up this particular thread.🤣😎

[AnotherScott]

56 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

As I mentioned in a similar thread, I had Kronos 73 and 88 and really didn’t like either of them...I got the GS...It’s a genuine pleasure to play.

44 minutes ago, drawback said:

I had a GrandStage 73 and liked the RH3 so much that I sold it to buy a Kronos2 73, presuming the actions were identical. As far as I can tell, they are. Still loving it.

41 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Mine were the original Kronos so it’s likely the Kronos 2 is more like the GS keybed?

If it was the original Kronos, it might have been before the fix to prevent unintentional note cutoffs...?

 

Whatever Kronos RH3 I played, it felt kind of heavy/sluggish/unconnected compared to either the SV1 or SV2 I've played (which, in turn, felt different from each other, but I think the SV1 was pre-Japanese edition).

 

41 minutes ago, ProfD said:

A nearly 2 year old thread was resurrected to address this issue instead of starting  a new one or adding it the GrandStage X thread.🤣😎

40 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Thought the same when I saw it, but it’s more pertinent to this thread than the GSX thread, surely?

37 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Right.  A new thread with less pages would have been better. 😁

 

I'd imagine  @AnotherScott has a reason for digging up up this particular thread.🤣😎

 

The GSX thread wasn't relevant to my question about how the GS action felt, because I don't know if the GSX will feel identical to the original GS (related to the comment I was replying to about how the same action can feel different in a different chassis). But regardless, few people can compare the feel of the GSX to anything, because few people have actually laid their hands on a GSX. 🙂

 

I tend not to start new threads, if I can find an existing relevant thread. Part of it is a personality thing. But also, an existing thread may have some other helpful context, and/or may already be marked to be followed/alerted by people who are interested in the subject.

 

In this case, I was replying to a particular comment that was in this thread, but I don't know, maybe it would have been better to start a new thread with a subject line like "Korg RH3 actions, Grandstage" -- I could have still started with Paul's quote, even though it originated in this thread. (It's not like this thread has the most appropriate subject line for my comment anyway,) Pros and cons, I suppose. (If a mod would like to break it off into a new thread, that's fine with me. I can't really do it myself now, because I can't move the relevant replies.)

 

Though at least the thread doesn't have many pages anyway. It's not like I added it to the Spacestation thread. 😉

 

 

 

[ProfD]

6 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

The GSX thread wasn't relevant to my question about how the GS action felt...

 

I tend not to start new threads, if I can find an existing relevant thread. Part of it is a personality thing.

 

In this case, I was replying to a particular comment that was in this thread, but I don't know, maybe it would have been better to start a new thread with a subject line like "Korg RH3 actions" -- I could have still started with Paul's quote, even though it originated in this thread. Pros and cons, I suppose.

 

Still, the thread doesn't have many pages anyway. It's not like I added it to the Spacestation thread. 😉

It's all good mayne.  Just giving you a hard time.😁😎

[AnotherScott]

Coincidentally, just posted in another thread...

 

2 hours ago, CEB said:

My RH3 is heavy in the bass. I love the Kronos but not it’s action.  I played the RH3 in a SV-1 and liked it better than my Kronos but it was still fairly heavy in the bass.  

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/187676-dp-with-a-really-light-action/#comment-2986929

 

[The Piano Man]

The original Grandstage is the best stage piano I have ever owned. Arrived last week. I cannot believe how good the RH3 action feels with the GS samples. 
 

I have previously played the RH3 on a SV1, a D1, the SP250 and the M50-88.

 

Unquestionably, the Grandstage is best but then, I guess, the samples make a psychological difference to the feel of the keys. Having said that, it really does feel and sound amazing. I was never a fully fledged Korg guy for pianos until I got this one. 

 

[Paul Woodward]

23 minutes ago, The Piano Man said:

The original Grandstage is the best stage piano I have ever owned... I was never a fully fledged Korg guy for pianos until I got this one. 

 

Join the club. Be interesting to see if the GSX can genuinely beat this board. Can't imagine the sound quality or keybed being any better, and that's what really counts.

[AnotherScott]

36 minutes ago, The Piano Man said:

I have previously played the RH3 on a SV1, a D1, the SP250 and the M50-88

 

I've played (older) SV1, SV2, Kronos (not sure which)... I liked the SV1 a good bit, was so-so on the SV2, didn't like the Kronos at all! But I should finally have my first GS experience next week.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, The Piano Man said:

The original Grandstage...really does feel and sound amazing. I was never a fully fledged Korg guy for pianos until I got this one. 

 

I felt that way when I got the XE20, that Italian piano is great... I assume that piano (if not an even better version of it) is the Italian piano in the GS as well. (It was not in my old Kronos.)

[CEB]

Nice to see I’m not the only one that thought that way about the Kronos RH3.  Not sure why this is.
 

Kronos has a lot of stuff going on. … Aftertouch.  I’m not sure how it collects velocity data.  I use velocity levels to trigger layers and effects.  I wouldn’t think that is it.  If I had to bet on a cause it would be the aftertouch sensors. 

[The Piano Man]

47 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I felt that way when I got the XE20, that Italian piano is great... I assume that piano (if not an even better version of it) is the Italian piano in the GS as well. (It was not in my old Kronos.)

The Italian piano is my favourite. Quite impressive if they offer a version of it in the entry level XE20. What’s the action like on that one? NH? Any good?

[AnotherScott]

46 minutes ago, The Piano Man said:

The Italian piano is my favourite. Quite impressive if they offer a version of it in the entry level XE20. What’s the action like on that one? NH? Any good?

 

Yes, quite playable. Not top tier, but not bothersome. And the speakers are quite nice, which is handy sometimes. It's got a lot of other nice sounds, too... though the EPs are a disappointment. And the interface is only fair, in part because it is primarily set up as an arranger, though that's not how I use it. A couple of other shortcomings... no 5-pin MIDI (not surprising these days), and even though it nicely does audio over USB, you can't play *only* an external sound unless you use Local Off (i.e. any external sound will always be layered with an internal one). But overall, it's been my go-to lately for solo cocktail hour and the like.

[Paul Woodward]

4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 I should finally have my first GS experience next week.

Are you getting a GS or somehow getting hands on the GSX?

[AnotherScott]

At least playing a GS (not X), we'll see after that...