Moving from a Nord Electro HP to a MODX (am i crazy ?)

[mauriziodececco]

I am going thru a number of changes lately, after a lot of thinking, so i find it may be interesting to share my thoughts here, even if i do not have any specific questions :).

 

OK, in the beginning, as we all know, there was the Nord Lead.

 

Well, almost; actually, the important point was the connection between the player and the instrument that the Nord Lead and other knobby instrument announced. I had a NL A1 for a while, and while it was a great little and light synth, it had strong limits on this side.

 

The point is that what really count is not the one function per knob paradigm (that Nord keyboard more or less respect), but the What You See Is What You Get aspect. You look at the keyboard, and you see what you can do, before doing it. The oscillator configuration mechanism of the NLA1 is far from WYSIWYG: it is still a way of menu digging, done by moving knobs, but unless you remember very well the options available, it is not really immediate; you do not change the oscillator configuration in a unplanned way while you are improvising: careful planning is required (not that this is necessarily a negative point).

 

If you add obvious things like no feedback on actual knob/parameter value after a patch change, and the dreaded shift button that require two hands for some changes, the live musicians/synth engine connection is a lot lower than what you would expect purely on paper. The only situation where i found the promises of knobby interfaces realised is when i use my OB6 and switch on the manual mode. 

 

OK, but how this is correlated with the Nord Electro: well, for a number of reasons, around  2015 (?)  i choose a NE5HP as my new piano; the main reason was the weight, since real Parisians bring their keyboards on their shoulders and move around using public transport. But i really appreciated the knobby UI; in the case of the NE, i found that the instrument is a lot closer of the WYSIWYG paradigm: for exemple, the effect section clearly list the effects available; you can really look at the instrument and decide sound changes on the fly. So i used it for a number of years, and i was quite happy; but, at the end, weight is not so low; adding the bag, cables and so on the total is more than 15 Kg, and for most of this time the NE exited my studio only for concerts and final rehersals, and i used a NS rented in the rehersal studio.

 

Than a new project ask for more "other", not EP/AP/Organ, sounds, so i started to look around, including re-evaluating options on the piano side; i really loved how the YC61 sound, for example, but playing it helped me realise that the one function/one knobby  approach works only if the instrument stay simple: just moving from the very reduced set of effects on the Nord to the long list in the YC61 change completely the approach; it is again menu diving, even if you have dedicated buttons to navigate the menu; if you do not know very well the effects available, you will not able to take decisions on the fly; planning is again required.

 

OK, i suppose you all know all this very well :); at the end, the Nord approach works only if the instrument stay simple; and this is probably the base of Nord philosophy and the base for many criticisms to the Nord instruments.

 

So, what all this bring us : well, for me, it was: since the knobby approach have its limit, may be it is time to look elsewhere. After a brief experimentation with a controller keyboard plus computer that i dropper for various reasons (that are too long to be discussed here), i came to  the MODX; i found that sonically corresponds perfectly to the need of the second project. After spending half an hour in the shop i realised that the screen based approach have its own advantages in terms of WYSIWYG (like, you see the levels of the different parts); and after all, coming from a lot of work on VI, a screen approach seems natural to me today.

 

I decided to go for the MODX7, initially to have more keyboard estate for splits; the weight is a complete different story: around 9Kg total, including the gig bag; today i am bringing the keyboard to all rehearsals.

 

And then, it was natural to bring the MODX to my first projet rehearsals (thanks also to the choice of the longer keyboard) where i mostly used EPs; with the Purgatory Creek library, EPs sound (in my context) as good as the Nord ones.

 

My big doubt was about the keybed; my first impression was very bad (but the shop did not had the keyboard horizontal, so the perception was faked); i realised that the end, being technically a very bad pianist, does seems to make a big difference 🤔, after practicing a bit with the MODX; there are even things that i can do with the semi-weighted MODX keybed that i clearly couldn't do with the NE. And finally, i am starting using other sounds with the Jazz Funk project, like moving from the 70s EP sound scape to some 80 FM+Analog pads for Miles Davis 80s stuff 🙂.

 

So the result is that even it wasn't what i planned, i took out the NE from the studio (i do not have really room for both in a 4 square meters home studio), and put it  in a closet, and thinking about selling it; if i'll ever need a weighted keybed again, there is always a Studiologic controller option + laptop, but for the moment i doubt it (ok, i am keeping my acoustic piano, of course).

 

OK, hoping you'll find all this interesting ...

 

Maurizio

 

 

 

[nursers]

That is indeed interesting. I basically did the same thing, offloaded my Electro for a MODX and have never regretted it as far as bang for buck

[synthizen2]

I have never found "knob per function" synths to be of much use in the gigging world I've always inhabited, and continue to inhabit. I find them useful and fascinating for immediate hands-on synth programming... usually for fun, and on my own time. No band I'm ever in requires real-time synth sound manipulation; in fact, no band I'm ever in really requires synth sound for anything, except for a handful of songs in our setlist. And those can be easily handled by whatever workstation(s) I'm using.

[Stokely]

I didn't really replace my Electro for my MODX; I sold my electro thinking I'd get a Stage compact, which never happened (and my excellent deal dried up!)   They made a very good combination, but aren't really all that similar.

I've never completely bonded with my MODX7 and it's hard to say why.   The plastic build and wall wart are factors.   As you say, the weight is a benefit of this.   It's an excellent piece of gear, and while the OS might not be for everyone--and normally I dislike touch screens--I find it very well-thought out and pretty easy to use.  To me, for a while at least, the two weaknesses in the MODX for my use were:  ballsy analog poly synths or mono leads; and a decent hammond organ.  I solved the last bit by having an ipad connected running B-3X, which the MODX makes very easy.  I've had a few glitches with this but none lately.  As far as the analog-ish sounds, I've come around a bit after digging in and doing some programming.  I made a halfway-decent poly sound for Subdivisions and the Loverboy songs we play.  The lead patches that come with it are anemic but now I think the basic "oscillators" and sound are ok, it's just the programming that is needed.   The FM patches, especially some of the pads, are fantastic.

I may be selling the MODX simply because I recently bought another workstation and ironically might replace it with a more organ-centric keyboard so that I don't have to rely on the ipad.  It works, but I prefer to make things as simple as possible.   But then again it does make for an excellent practice keyboard being so light, my new one is 41 pounds so that is a LOT heavier!

[CyberGene]

I sold my MODX6 because it was awfully difficult to use in live situations. I never warmed up to its architecture. It's made for robots, not for humans. If used as a rompler, it was excellent, most of the sounds are absolutely fantastic! But just doing some simple splits or layers in live situation made me scratch my head, it's the single most non-intuitive piece of gear (and not just a music instrument) I've ever seen or had.

 

I'm very glad that I replaced it with the YC61.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

I sold my MODX6 because it was awfully difficult to use in live situations. I never warmed up to its architecture. It's made for robots, not for humans. If used as a rompler, it was excellent, most of the sounds are absolutely fantastic! But just doing some simple splits or layers in live situation made me scratch my head

 

For live use, the MODX can be very easy for some things, but not for others. And you're right, it is not a board made to assemble splits/layers in a live situation. Well actually, Layers are quick, but Splits can't be quick because of the steps required to establish a key range. For Splits, what I did was set up a master Split performance, one time. Then, as long as I didn't want to change any of the other parameters (like where the split point was), it was easy enough to swap out any single-part sound for any other single-part sound, on either side of the split point. At that point, splits become easy, the trick is figuring that out in the first place! But picking up from a post in another thread about navigating sounds with the rocker switches, once the MODX was set up to let you (for example) choose your right hand sound by tapping the desired sound's name from screens you've set up with your favorite sounds, it actually becomes faster/easier to change your right hand sound on the fly on the MODX than the YC! But you do have to do that setup first. 

 

5 hours ago, mauriziodececco said:

OK, in the beginning, as we all know, there was the Nord Lead.

 

Well, almost; actually, the important point was the connection between the player and the instrument that the Nord Lead and other knobby instrument announced. I had a NL A1 for a while, and while it was a great little and light synth, it had strong limits on this side.

 

The point is that what really count is not the one function per knob paradigm (that Nord keyboard more or less respect), but the What You See Is What You Get aspect. You look at the keyboard, and you see what you can do, before doing it. The oscillator configuration mechanism of the NLA1 is far from WYSIWYG: it is still a way of menu digging, done by moving knobs, but unless you remember very well the options available, it is not really immediate; you do not change the oscillator configuration in a unplanned way while you are improvising: careful planning is required (not that this is necessarily a negative point).

 

If you add obvious things like no feedback on actual knob/parameter value after a patch change, and the dreaded shift button that require two hands for some changes, the live musicians/synth engine connection is a lot lower than what you would expect purely on paper. The only situation where i found the promises of knobby interfaces realised is when i use my OB6 and switch on the manual mode. 

 

The Nord Lead 3 addressed all the limitations you mentioned there. (it's really unfortunate that they subsequently abandoned that design.

 

5 hours ago, mauriziodececco said:

Than a new project ask for more "other", not EP/AP/Organ, sounds, so i started to look around, including re-evaluating options on the piano side; i really loved how the YC61 sound, for example, but playing it helped me realise that the one function/one knobby  approach works only if the instrument stay simple: just moving from the very reduced set of effects on the Nord to the long list in the YC61 change completely the approach; it is again menu diving, even if you have dedicated buttons to navigate the menu; if you do not know very well the effects available, you will not able to take decisions on the fly; planning is again required.

 

Yes. The CP73 addresses that... fewer effects, but each one clearly selectable from the front panel without scrolling though a cryptic menu. But of course you don't get the YC's organ, and getting back to your travel weight issue, it's not available in the light 61 size that the YC can come in.

 

5 hours ago, mauriziodececco said:

My big doubt was about the keybed; my first impression was very bad (but the shop did not had the keyboard horizontal, so the perception was faked); i realised that the end, being technically a very bad pianist, does seems to make a big difference 🤔, after practicing a bit with the MODX; there are even things that i can do with the semi-weighted MODX keybed that i clearly couldn't do with the NE.

 

While the keyboard's angle can make some difference in how something feels to play, it is not as significant on a semi or unweighted action as on a hammer action, since it doesn't depend on gravity for the key return to behave properly. But yes, some things are much more playable on a non-hammer action. As for playing pianos on the MODX7, I found it much more satisfying once I played with the velocity parameters.

 

Though there are always tradeoffs... The MODX7 still does't give you the quick access real-time effects tweaking that you liked on the Electro and missed on the YC, nor does it give you the full real-time organ controls of either of those boards. So getting back to how I started this post, the difference between the MODX and and Electro or YC isn't so much about one kind of board being easier to use than the other, but rather, they can be easier to use for different things... but also, the learning curve to GET them to be easy to use for the things you want is, itself, a factor.

 

 

[zephonic]

I ditched my NordPiano for a MODX8. Not loving the latter, not missing the former.

I liked the Nord but it was just too limited.

[nadroj]

I tried to make the MODX replace my Electro but it couldn’t. Turns out don’t like gigging with plastic feeling keyboards, and the MODX7 action doesn’t work for me. Plus the electro-mechanical sounds, even after extensive tweaking, don’t do it for me on the MODX. Yet when I play the same basic sounds on the YC, they do.
 

I’m not buying the purgatory creek sounds because I just don’t enjoy playing the MODX. Great on paper, but not for me. So now I have both, when I only want one.
 

Saying that, when I used the MODX with the Electro the MODX was able to do things no other keyboard I’ve ever owned could do. However, I no longer have any gigs where I need both. 
 

The YC has the things I like from both keyboards, so that’s what I’m aiming for once I get these sold. Not many people buying where I am, though…

[AnotherScott]

Nadroj, have you played with the velocity settings on the MODX7? It might help you find it more serviceable until you are able to get the YC you prefer. The key settings are the depth and offset parameters (which are unique to each performance, not global).

[Stokely]

I'd definitely agree that the MODX isn't very handy for doing things like splits on the fly.  That kind of thing I do beforehand and save out the patches.   

I went for the velocity controls pretty quickly.  I forget what I set it to, but basically I tried to make it harder to make the piano play loudly.  With those light keys it did make a pretty big difference, and I also learned a really light technique that worked.   I actually find the light action and shallow throw to work pretty well for organ but that's about it.  Everything else I tend to play too fast and sloppy.  

I equate this light action to buying a guitar with jumbo frets when you are used to vintage.  You squeeze everything out of tune and you have to learn a new way to chord (and I'm not good enough on guitar to manage that well...)

When I got my Forte, that light technique caused me to be stuck in the mud   But it only took a couple weeks to adjust and now it's super-easy to play.  That said, I also adjusted the Forte default velocity because I felt the piano was playing, well, "forte" a bit too easily.

[nadroj]

34 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Nadroj, have you played with the velocity settings on the MODX7? It might help you find it more serviceable until you are able to get the YC you prefer. The key settings are the depth and offset parameters (which are unique to each performance, not global).

Thanks Scott, I’ve done all of that. The MODX is very flexible in that regard, and having the velocity graph on screen is handy when adjusting it. It’s okay for playing at home, but it doesn’t really fix the general feeling for heavy live playing. 

[cphollis]

When I outgrew the Electro, I went to the Stage.  Same workflow, same immediacy -- just a lot more usable firepower under your fingers.  I have seen musos backpacking with the smallest NS3C, I have never tried it.  I did look closely at the MODX layout, as it's clear they see what has worked for Nord so well.  That being said, when I stared and tried to imagine my workflows, many of them now had small bumps.  Didn't want to invest the time or effort to learn to live with them, work around them, etc.  So I bought another NS3C as a backup instead.  I have yet to run out of finding new, cool ways to use it on different styles of music.

 

Edit: I will say the one thing that kept bringing me back to the MODX was USB audio in, perhaps from an iPad.  That's very convenient if you're using it as master board.  

[mauriziodececco]

What is really interesting reading this thread is that while there are broadly speaking common needs and rules, the point of views and the different experiences are massively different, especially wrt the user interfaces.

 

By the way, for cphollis: yes, the ns3c was on my radar for a while, but it wasn't wallet compatible (and heavier of what i wanted, too, around 12 or 13 Kg including gig bag).

 

Maurizio

[yannis D]

Ι have spend countless hours inside the Parisian metro, so I would not recommend to get rid of your Electro - but this is not the only reason.

To me, the Electro has the best overall sounds and user interface for a gigging musician. I still use largely my NE5d which is even lighter than yours (and, mind you, I carry it on my Vespa in Athens, not in ligne 15 )

For a project calling for less EP/B3/Clav I would probably still use it as a controller with MainStage, but I would surely wouldn't change it for a MODX

 

Bonne chance à toi

Yannis