kurzweil k2700 In the Lab: Kurzweil K2700

[Delaware Dave]

16 hours ago, Stephen Fortner said:

Delaware Dave, I believe you have the CD rocker switch backwards. I’ve always understood C to be single pickup and D to be both. Here is one source:

 

https://chicagoelectricpiano.com/clavinet/clavinet-controls-and-settings/

 

I also have my vintage E7 here and it behaves as I described. So unless my mind has gone (a distinct possibility) I think the K2700 is doing it right.

 

 

I guess my mind aint what it use to be.....  Sucks getting old.

[Stephen Fortner]

FM Prograns

 

Ok, I’m going to try to get some new stuff into this thread as there is a LOT more to explore about the K2700. I’d like to look at the FM Programs next, as there are a decent number of them and they sound great overall.

 

Actually, I just did that. Told you about a couple dozen of my favorites and how to use the search function to find all the FM stuff. Then I was trying to type a special character and mistakenly held down Command instead of Alt. This was a hotkey for the Back button in Firefox. “No problem,” I thought. “I'll just go forward because of course the browser will preserve the cache.” It preserved precisely the first sentence. ARRRRGH!

 

Too fried to rewrite all this tonight but I’ll do it in the morning. And I ALWAYS write offline in a text editor then paste here for longer-format material. Except this time. Going to go soak my 💀 in some anti-stupid juice if I can find some.

 

Delaware is right. Getting old does suck. Stay tuned, dear friends.

[ABECK]

On 7/12/2022 at 4:59 AM, Jim Alfredson said:

Stephen, have you tested the audio interface capabilities yet?

I'm using the interface to route my ventilator to the main outs.  (organ programs routed to output B->Vent->Audio In->Mix out to A)

Works well - BUT, I'm finding I have to adjust the C/V settings in the FX chain.  When on , they seem to cut too many frequencies in this configuration.  Still tweaking.

[Al Coda]

10 hours ago, Stephen Fortner said:

K2700. I’d like to look at the FM Programs next, as there are a decent number of them and they sound great overall.

 

Would be interesting how many VAST layers (= polyphony) and DSP cycles these eat.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

 

 

[ABECK]

12 hours ago, Stephen Fortner said:

FM Prograns

 

Ok, I’m going to try to get some new stuff into this thread as there is a LOT more to explore about the K2700. I’d like to look at the FM Programs next, as there are a decent number of them and they sound great overall.

 

The FM programs are fantastic and all sound very present/immediate.  There's something about the dynamics of those old DX FM sounds that make them very enjoyable to play.  

Kudos to the Kurzweil team for the programming of the FM engine UI.  After watching a few DX7 programming tutorials and looking at the layout on the K2700, the mystery has been removed.  The ability to see the algorithm setup and the envelopes graphically laid out makes it much easier and dare I say, Fun.

[Stephen Fortner]

FM Programs, take 2

 

Ok,let’s try this again. Off the bat I’ll admit to a bias: These days, I don’t see why some synth companies are as excited about including an FM engine as they are. Beyond analog, other technologies are better at doing most of what we want to hear, be they good old PCM multisampling, wavetable, or additive — which we now have the CPU cycles and memory to do without a six-figure Synclavier.

 

When the DX7 took the ’80s by storm, it did so because the articulation and non-contiguous harmonics it could create were especially good at the struck and plucked sounds subtractive analog synthesis never quite got right. Did the infamous EP sound like a Rhodes? No, but it sounded enough more like a Rhodes than anything you could do on the Polysix or Juno you could afford that you had to have a DX7.

 

Add to that the fact that in 1983 Yamaha basically needed enough memory for six single-cycle sine waves times 16 voices, plus the logic to handle the algorithms, and you have the reason they could bring the DX7 in at $1,999 — though a lot of us got one out the door for less.

All this being said, there’s a certain je ne sais quoi about some FM sounds, a certain way that they get expressive when you modulate one operator with another via velocity or some other physical input. And the K2700 has quite a few that I like.

 

The FM Programs are distributed across multiple instrument categories but you can use the search function to get them all in one place since all have “FM” in their names. Hold enter and press one of the numbered buttons on the keypad to bring up a search screen where you can dial in characters with the data wheel or type them O.G. texting style on the keypad (e.g. press 2 once for the letter A but three times for C). Search for “FM,” hit OK, and the first sound will come up. Now, hold Enter while using the +/- buttons to browse through all Presets with “FM” in the name.

 

After the snafu with my previous post, I thought it might be more efficient to list my favorite sounds in a table, so here it is. Again, this is not all of them, just the standouts on my first — make that second — pass.

 

Ok,let’s try this again. Off the bat I’ll admit to a bias: These days, I don’t see why some synth companies are as excited about including an FM engine as they are. Beyond analog, other technologies are better at doing most of what we want to hear, be they good old PCM multisampling, wavetable, or additive — which we now have the CPU cycles and memory to do without a six-figure Synclavier.

 

When the DX7 took the ’80s by storm, it did so because the articulation and non-contiguous harmonics it could create were especially good at the struck and plucked sounds subtractive analog synthesis never quite got right. Did the infamous EP sound like a Rhodes? No, but it sounded enough more like a Rhodes than anything you could do on the Polysix or Juno you could afford that you had to have a DX7.

 

Add to that the fact that in 1983 Yamaha basically needed enough memory for six single-cycle sine waves times 16 voices, plus the logic to handle the algorithms, and you have the reason they could bring the DX7 in at $1,999 — though a lot of us got one out the door for less.

All this being said, there’s a certain je ne sais quoi about some FM sounds, a certain way that they get expressive when you modulate one operator with another via velocity or some other physical input. And the K2700 has quite a few that I like.

 

The FM Programs are distributed across multiple instrument categories but you can use the search function to get them all in one place since all have “FM” in their names. Hold enter and press one of the numbered buttons on the keypad to bring up a search screen where you can dial in characters with the data wheel or type them O.G. texting style on the keypad (e.g. press 2 once for the letter A but three times for C). Search for “FM,” hit OK, and the first sound will come up. Now, hold Enter while using the +/- buttons to browse through all Presets with “FM” in the name.

After the snafu with my previous post, I thought it might be more efficient to list my favorite sounds in a table, so here it is. Again, this is not all of them, just the standouts on my first — make that second — pass.

 

<table>
<thead>
<tr>
<th>Number</th>
<th>Name</th>
<th>Makes Me Want To Play</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>101</td>
<td>Thick FM Digital</td>
<td>“Law &amp; Order” theme</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>612</td>
<td>Treble FM Lead</td>
<td>Chick Corea “Light Years” era stuff</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>613</td>
<td>Delicate FM Lead</td>
<td>Like 612 but more George Duke than Chick</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1056</td>
<td>FM Brass Temnplate</td>
<td>EWF and TOP funk riffs; has that nice spit and octave spread</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1062</td>
<td>Slap FM Keys</td>
<td>Comping part to “Policy of Truth” by Depeche Mode</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1088</td>
<td>Full FM Brass</td>
<td>Paul Simon’s “Call Me Al”</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1095</td>
<td>FM Warm SynBrass</td>
<td>That vibrato pad that doubles the piano in Spandau Ballet’s “True”</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1104</td>
<td>Moving FM Engine</td>
<td>Nothing specific, but moves like a wavetable synth</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1109</td>
<td>FM Hard Bowed</td>
<td>“Under Ice” by Kate Bush</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1128</td>
<td>Sync Sqr FM Lead</td>
<td>“Hello Again” bassline by The Cars</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1134</td>
<td>FM Classic Bass</td>
<td>“When I Think of You” bassline, Janet Jackson</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1152</td>
<td>CC FM Mayhen</td>
<td>Aphex Twin; arpeggiated groove with lots of harmonic randomness</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1160</td>
<td>FM Wirtualizer</td>
<td>Supertramp — suprisingly good Wurly</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1174</td>
<td>Soft Chill FM</td>
<td>The descending arpeggio from Cyndi Lauper’s “All Through the Night”</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>1188</td>
<td>FM Fazed Square</td>
<td>The keyboard break from The Tubes’ “She’s a Beauty” only in fourths</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

 

[Stephen Fortner]

So, it looks like I’m having trouble getting an HTML table to display as I want. I’ll ask Jim Quinn to help out. But you can basically see the information for now until I get this formatted properly: first line in each group is the Kurz program number, second is the Program name, and the third is the tune or riff I first played when I heard it.

 

One non-FM program, “VoiceOfMoon” snuck into the search because of the f and M with no space between them in its name. And there may be some FM programs that don’t have it in the name that I haven’t excavated yet.

 

Suffice to say the K2700 will do anything from our collective memory of better FM sounds, and a lot more.

[Stephen Fortner]

Just came across this video about how the K2700 loads DX7 sounds. The video maker is using a DX7-II interestingly. 
 

 

[Al Coda]

1 hour ago, Stephen Fortner said:

Just came across this video about how the K2700 loads DX7 sounds.

 

Thx for posting,- the import and resulting sound is good (enough) IMO, some patches are very close, others show more recognizable differences.

But the most interesting aspect would be editing these using the potential of VAST and combine w/ other Kurzweil sounds,- sampled or VA.

Not to forget to mention the amazing palette of Kurzweil insert- and aux- FX available for that purpose.

I really wish Kurzweil decides to bring a 76 synth action keys version of the K2700.

That´s what I´d need to retire the DX7mkIIFD, KX76, TX816 w/ QX-1 and PC361.

 

1 hour ago, Stephen Fortner said:

The video maker is using a DX7-II interestingly.

 

That was good for me ...

He used single patches, not performances.

Recreating DX7mkII performances should be easy in the K2700,- w/ possibly 2 exceptions:

 

The special "guitar type" pitch-bend mode (bending only 1 note of an interval) and the "4-voice detune" (quasi 4-voice unison w/ detune) mode DX7mkII performances offer.

 

But at the end of the day, DX7 FM sounds will for sure sound better in a K2700 once mangled w/ VAST and running thru individual insert-FX chains per program.

I really don´t need many 1:1 DX7 FM sounds anymore and will possibly keep the Yamaha TG77 for advanced FM and until Yamaha decides for a new rack module offering FM like MODX or Montage.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

 

 

[ABECK]

I've downloaded a handful of DX banks off the web and imported them.  Easy peasy.  Those stock soundbanks take me back to when I had the original DX7.  There's some great, usable stuff in there.  This weekend's gig we played Money For Nothing and I was able to get really close to those iconic sounds from the DX1.

This is the site I pulled from:  https://yamahablackboxes.com/collection/yamaha-dx7-synthesizer/patches/

[Stephen Fortner]

Apropos of nothing, does anyone remember the “Rubber Electric Piano”

patch from the DX7-II? It did not sound like a Doogie Howser EP. It was dope. 

[allan_evett]

36 minutes ago, Stephen Fortner said:

Apropos of nothing, does anyone remember the “Rubber Electric Piano”

patch from the DX7-II? It did not sound like a Doogie Howser EP. It was dope. 

 

I recall a similar patch from my TX802. Thinking the name was "Rubba Roads", or something close to that.

[jerrythek]

I found these demos of samples of the Rubber Rhodes, from Nord's library...

 

https://www.nordkeyboards.com/sound-libraries/nord-piano-library/digital-pianos/dx-rubba-tines

 

[Al Coda]

2 hours ago, jerrythek said:

I found these demos of samples of the Rubber Rhodes, from Nord's library...

 

https://www.nordkeyboards.com/sound-libraries/nord-piano-library/digital-pianos/dx-rubba-tines

 

 

I wonder who the original programmers were for the DX7.

Was it on one of the commercial cardridges or came it from someone unknown?

I didn´t find related credits on NORD´s site.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[jerrythek]

I don’t know… I don’t remember the name or this patch from back in the day. Just responding to SF’s inquiry. To be honest, I don’t really like the tone…

19 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

I wonder who the original programmers were for the DX7.

Was it on one of the commercial cardridges or came it from someone unknown?

I didn´t find related credits on NORD´s site.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

 

[Al Coda]

On 8/3/2022 at 2:43 PM, jerrythek said:

I don’t know… I don’t remember the name or this patch from back in the day

 

I found out it´s a single patch in Yamaha´s DX7II (S) library w/ the name "Rubba Roads" a I was able loading it in "Dexed" VSTi, recognizinghow mediocre it really sounds.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[Stephen Fortner]

Wanted to let you all know that American Music and Sound have kindly extended my loan of the K2700 until October 1. What topic, sound category, feature area, etc., would you like to know about next that we haven't covered so far?

[SoundEngine.com]

I'm aligned with you on the notion of including am FM engine in every synth on the planet. It's an interesting proof-of-concept sort of thing, but with hardware synths like the OP-6 and software synths like FM8 (and now, OP-6) who do FM much better, I don't think it's necessary.

 

That said, I'll get back to you on questions I have. There's so much rich content here that you've already delivered (thank you for that), I need to pour over it first.

[rockinroller]

On 3/15/2022 at 9:17 AM, KaffiMusic said:

Regarding "talking to the outside world" like a computer, I´d like to get some insight, too.

I have a PC4 (a K2 and two PC3, too) and the software editor for both is useless. I am quite familiar with that, tried it in the early years with my PC3, now with the PC4, it´s the same. It crashed several times after I tried it to show me the list of programs I had uploaded via USB. Do not get me started with editing anything. Experienced Kurzweil-users are aware of that and do not even consider this software useful in any way.

BTW, you can exchange soundsets etc. via USB-stick, as well as using a Computer as some kind of external hard-disk, that is treated like a USB-stick - same like in the PC3, but I did not try that on the PC4. I do not know about the K27, since I do not have one. But they are very close brothers/sisters, I suppose it´s most likely the same.

You can do pretty much everything in the machine itself, but having at least a bank-manager would be a nice-to-have and nothing less but up to date. Same goes for exchanging samples. We do not have a program to do keymaps, exept the decades-old Kurzfiler - which was a project from a guy that did this in his free time.

The Nord-software for their Stage-line is a nice example for how to bring the K- (and PC-) series to this decade. With that we would not need sophisticated sample editing in the machine - on a computer-screen it´d be way more comfortable. Right now we have to use 3rd party software and then use Kurzfiler to build keymaps and then transfer them to the machine via Stick or USB connection. They way how they feel is something you can experience just then, when they have been uploaded.

I´d love to see some "Kurzweil-solution" where the steps of looping, setting zones + velocitylayers and transfer to the instrument come together. All this much sample memory needs some proper tools. I might want to add the comment, that I´d prefer this software should be made by someone else but ST.

I like the Kurzweil-stuff, but this is ridiculous.

I have had extreme success with the PC3 Sound Editor, having used it (and the Artis S.E. for my other boards) for several years.  On occasion I will get it to lock up or do something funky but honestly it has been a God-send for me.  I love the opportunity to have all of the sounds and parameter adjustments reflected on my (27") computer screen while connected rather than trying to do everything on those tiny Kurzweil screens.  Plus the entire book of parameters is right there via tabs when using the software interface.

[Al Coda]

21 hours ago, shayo said:

Ahoj,

Chcel by som sa spýtať, či je možné vzdialenú zónu expresným pedálom pripojeným ku k2700, ak je vstupný kanál tejto zóny nastavený na midi, tak ak túto zónu hrám len na externej midi klaviatúre?

 

what ?

 

[Doerfler]

On 10/19/2022 at 7:02 AM, Al Coda said:

 

what ?

 

sorry for the delay, I used Google translate. Hoping someone can help this person. 

 

"Hi, I would like to ask if a remote zone is possible with an expression pedal connected to the k2700, if the input channel of this zone is set to midi, then if I only play this zone on an external midi keyboard?"

[Al Coda]

On 10/22/2022 at 2:47 AM, Doerfler said:

sorry for the delay, I used Google translate. Hoping someone can help this person. 

 

"Hi, I would like to ask if a remote zone is possible with an expression pedal connected to the k2700, if the input channel of this zone is set to midi, then if I only play this zone on an external midi keyboard?"

 

 

Well, when a zone is set to "MIDI" only w/ the local keyboard channel set to "none",- the zone is controlled by an external MIDI device only.

A to the Kurzweil connected expression pedal doesn´t work in the given (external) zone then.

Instead, the expression pedal has to be connected to the external MIDI controller and has to be activated in the given (external) zone´s parameter page for "pedals 1 and 2".

(the same rules for pedal-switches, wheels, ribbon and individually assignable buttons, sliders etc.)

 

 

A.C.

[bill5]

On 10/21/2022 at 8:47 PM, Doerfler said:

sorry for the delay, I used Google translate. Hoping someone can help this person. 

 

"Hi, I would like to ask if a remote zone is possible with an expression pedal connected to the k2700, if the input channel of this zone is set to midi, then if I only play this zone on an external midi keyboard?"

Either that or it's a Klingon invasion.   

[Stephen Fortner]

The OP, Shayo, asked me to delete the post, which I did.

[Jim Alfredson]

If anyone has any further questions about the K2700, don't hesitate to ask. I have one and I'm in the process of making videos. Here's the first.
 

 

[Doerfler]

Most excellent, Jim. 

[time4jazz]

On 11/3/2022 at 3:09 AM, Jim Alfredson said:

If anyone has any further questions about the K2700, don't hesitate to ask. I have one and I'm in the process of making videos. Here's the first.
 

 

Man, that was some awesome playing!  
Which B3 program were you using for the opening song? Was it modified at all? 

[Jim Alfredson]

4 hours ago, time4jazz said:

Man, that was some awesome playing!  
Which B3 program were you using for the opening song? Was it modified at all? 

 

Thanks! I don’t remember but I know it was one of David Weiser’s custom patches. Only modification I did was the drawbar settings. If you’re considering a Kurzweil, David is the guy to buy one from. He includes some really great customized sounds with them and his VIP service is second to none. www.weisersound.com

[UnderGroundGr]

David is great guy!!!

[time4jazz]

13 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

 

Thanks! I don’t remember but I know it was one of David Weiser’s custom patches. Only modification I did was the drawbar settings. If you’re considering a Kurzweil, David is the guy to buy one from. He includes some really great customized sounds with them and his VIP service is second to none. www.weisersound.com

Thanks. I went back to your video and found that one of the shots showed the keyboard’s screen. The image was too blurred to make out. But knowing you were using one of David Weiser’s programs, which I also have on my PC4-7, I went through all of his B3 programs and think that the blurred image matches the ‘70s Drawbars3 program.