SPEAKER PLACEMENT - ACOUSTIC QUESTION

[cassdad]

I have an acoustical question, for those of you knowledgeable of such things, please:

 

For logistical reasons, for performing, I am using 2 10-inch 2-way powered speakers (Yamaha DXR-10).  I understand that placing speakers near a wall, or especially a corner, greatly increases the bass, as does placing the speaker on its side (monitor position).  I have experimented and verified both of these points.  The increase, in fact, can be quite dramatic, resulting in bass “boominess” at certain frequencies, which can be quite annoying when playing (seated next to or near the speaker cabinets).  But is that increase experienced throughout the entire venue, or is it just local (right around the near proximity to the speaker cabinet)?

 

Since I do not want to carry any larger speakers, nor do I want to haul a subwoofer, when I am playing solo (“one-man band” type of gigs) my goal is to achieve as much bass response as possible out of these small speakers (especially for the accompanying drums and bass when I am using those sounds).

 

Through experimentation, I have found that I can achieve increased bass response using these techniques (speaker placement).  As stated, though, if the allotted venue space requires me to be close to the speaker cabinets - the “boominess” is terrible, very annoying.  But if I eliminate the boominess, then I fear I am not going to achieve the bass response for the audience that I feel is required for “full range” sound (ie. the bass and bass drums sounds will be inadequate for the audience sound).  Experimenting, when I place my keyboard between (near) the speakers, the bass is annoyingly too much.  However, if I keep all settings just the same, but place my piano across the room (opposite the speakers, ie. so that I am facing the speakers), the sound seems to be very balanced (not boomy).

 

My question is:  Can anyone tell me if the boominess experienced close-up to the cabinets does indeed result in better bass response heard by the rest of the venue (who are not close to the speaker cabinet)?  In other words, is it worth putting up with the close-up “too much bass” response in order to achieve overall venue adequate bass response from small speakers?  (I hope my question is clear.)

 

Apologies for the length of this post, but I am trying to make my situation and question as clear as possible….

[MathOfInsects]

Can you clarify: are you saying that you are hoping to draw more bass out of the keys because you fear the low-end from the bass player and drummer will not be sufficient? Or is it that everyone is going through your two 10s, including the bassist and the drummer, and you want to make sure they are heard well?

[jarrell]

One thing I have done and you can try, is if your keyboard will record or playback, is to go out and listen to my playing, on a patch I normally use, and see how it sounds. If you are playing solo with backing tracks, a little more complicated - you'd have to record your keyboard part and play it backwash the backing tracks, to get the full live sound.

 

My general experience is bass "blossoms" with distance - if you are to close, you can't really hear the lower frequencies as well.

 

Some keyboards have a master EQ, which you can use to dial in the sound for a particular venue and speaker placement (as opposed to per patch EQ, which you'd have to reset for every patch for each venue ).

 

I think if you get to the gig early, and it won't bother customers, you can do some experimenting.

[timwat]

I'm not sure any generalized answers we might provide will really lead you to optimal results - as it really depends on the specific room, as well as the actual tracks / rhythm section mix you're using.

 

As a general design comment, self powered PA speakers are designed to provide optimal FRFR response on an elevated pole. This doesn't have to be elevated 5 feet in the air, but off the ground is more in line with the intended design. Of course, most of mid-priced and above speakers these days have internal DSP to provide different profiles & settings to compensate for the variety of placements you might possible use (monitor wedge, on ground, with a subwoofer, etc.) Mine has those as well (I use two DXR8s).

 

IMHO, the only way to really arrive where you want is through playing representative material through the setup, listen from the middle and rear of the room, and make necessary adjustments.

 

FWIW, I have been playing quite a few duo/trio type gigs integrating pre-recorded material with live vocals, me, and sometimes other instruments. For the smaller rooms where I'm also providing PA, my ideal results typically put the DXRs on poles, and using a smaller JBL studio subwoofer. It's what I had, and I wasn't about to buy a PA sub for these kinds of little gigs.

 

And the results have been stellar. Other musicians have told me repeatedly I've got sufficient punch and bottom for the dance floor, and the midrange resolves really nicely with no mud or shrillness.

 

But it always requires "salt to taste" for the sake of the specific room. 

[AnotherScott]

15 minutes ago, cassdad said:

I understand that placing speakers near a wall, or especially a corner, greatly increases the bass, as does placing the speaker on its side (monitor position).  

 

Horizontal vs. vertical shouldn't really affect the amount of bass, except to the extent that horizontal use is usually on the floor and vertical is often on a stand, raised off the floor. Basically, the issue is proximity to boundaries.

 

  

15 minutes ago, cassdad said:

Can anyone tell me if the boominess experienced close-up to the cabinets does indeed result in better bass response heard by the rest of the venue (who are not close to the speaker cabinet)?  In other words, is it worth putting up with the close-up “too much bass” response in order to achieve overall venue adequate bass response from small speakers?  (I hope my question is clear.)

 

Bass can be tricky. First, yes, if you start with more coming out of the speaker, there is the potential for more everywhere else. But second, for very low frequencies in particular, the reflections throughout the room can cause standing waves. In effect, no matter how much bass you crank out, you can still easily end up with areas of the room with lots of bass, and other areas of the room with little (at least at a given frequency), and the areas that do or do not have a lot of bass will *not* directly correspond with how far away they are from the speaker! That said, you did mention that you're using a *pair* of speakers, and that will tend to smooth out the variable of standing waves.

[Bill H.]

The best answer to your question would be to play some of your backing tracks and walk around the room before you start. But generally speaking, placing a speaker close to a wall introduces nulls and lobes throughout the room. 

 

If I'm stuck without subs, I have better luck placing the speakers on the floor - which boosts the low end more evenly. That introduces it's own problems, but there are times when having the sound quieter towards the back of a room can be an advantage. 

 

It's all a compromise without subs though. 

[cassdad]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

Can you clarify: are you saying that you are hoping to draw more bass out of the keys because you fear the low-end from the bass player and drummer will not be sufficient? Or is it that everyone is going through your two 10s, including the bassist and the drummer, and you want to make sure they are heard well?

No….. I am playing solo (1-man band).  I need the kick drum to have some “kick”, and the bass to be solid, not thin.

[cassdad]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Horizontal vs. vertical shouldn't really affect the amount of bass, except to the extent that horizontal use is usually on the floor and vertical is often on a stand, raised off the floor. Basically, the issue is proximity to boundaries.

 

  

 

Bass can be tricky. First, yes, if you start with more coming out of the speaker, there is the potential for more everywhere else. But second, for very low frequencies in particular, the reflections throughout the room can cause standing waves. In effect, no matter how much bass you crank out, you can still easily end up with areas of the room with lots of bass, and other areas of the room with little (at least at a given frequency), and the areas that do or do not have a lot of bass will *not* directly correspond with how far away they are from the speaker! That said, you did mention that you're using a *pair* of speakers, and that will tend to smooth out the variable of standing waves.

Thank you, good points.  Yes, I am using 2 speakers because my keyboard requires stereo to sound good (IMO).

[MathOfInsects]

I suppose one option could be to pan the bass and drums to one side, and leave the keyboard sounds in stereo, and then put the "panned" speaker down close to the floor, and the other up off the ground on a low pole or table. Then you'd get your bass coupling for the bottom-end sounds without making your piano sound muddy, and you'd still get the benefit of firing the piano sounds off in stereo.

 

[Konnector]

I'd say that two monitors up on poles + a sub will get the best results. Roll off a little low end on all the other instruments to make room for the bass and kick to punch through.

[cassdad]

2 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

I suppose one option could be to pan the bass and drums to one side, and leave the keyboard sounds in stereo, and then put the "panned" speaker down close to the floor, and the other up off the ground on a low pole or table. Then you'd get your bass coupling for the bottom-end sounds without making your piano sound muddy, and you'd still get the benefit of firing the piano sounds off in stereo.

 

Interesting concept,  I’ll give it a try!

[cassdad]

1 hour ago, Konnector said:

I'd say that two monitors up on poles + a sub will get the best results. Roll off a little low end on all the other instruments to make room for the bass and kick to punch through.

Although I know this would probably be the best solution, as stated, I can no longer haul a subwoofer.  I had one, the matching sub for my DXR’s, the lighter 12-inch version.  OMG, just could not cart it around any longer.  And, frankly, I did not notice that much of a difference with it.  Now maybe with a larger subwoofer, but that is even more out of the question!

[Reezekeys]

4 hours ago, cassdad said:

My question is:  Can anyone tell me if the boominess experienced close-up to the cabinets does indeed result in better bass response heard by the rest of the venue (who are not close to the speaker cabinet)?  In other words, is it worth putting up with the close-up “too much bass” response in order to achieve overall venue adequate bass response from small speakers?  (I hope my question is clear.)

The answer to your question is... imo of course... don't sweat what you can't control. Every room will be different - unless you're the "house band" at a venue and always set up in the same spot.

 

First of all, I can't imagine setting up my speakers "across the room (opposite the speakers, ie. so that I am facing the speakers)." This makes absolutely no sense to me. To play a keyboard and hear yourself coming from across the room would mess me up big time.

 

Most rooms have parallel walls, and will reflect sound waves, causing peaks and nulls at certain frequencies. These peaks and nulls can be at different frequencies from each other by simply moving your head a few inches forward, back, or side-to-side. There is no possible way to have your rig sound the same to everyone in the room, frequency-response-wise. It's true as you say that certain speaker placements can accentuate bass frequencies, and it can help to sometimes roll off low end or maybe move the speakers a bit. If you describe the "too-much-bass" sound as "boomy" then I would guess that you're actually referring more to the "mid" bass region of frequencies, around 180 - 400Hz. I notch those frequencies down by a few db at almost every gig, and find it makes the overall sound "clearer" - i.e., I can push my levels more and not get overwhelmed by "too much bass."

 

As far as how it sounds to you vs the audience, and whether you should knowingly make it sound worse to you so that the audience will hear it "better" - this is one of my few triggers on KC! How the hell can you do a good job and enjoy yourself making music like this? I know this might be beyond the scope of what you're asking about, but imo it really goes to the heart of things. Is it more fulfilling to you to give the audience what you think they want to hear, at the expense of your ultimate enjoyment of playing music? Then by all means, boost your bass (or leave things as they are), and go for it. Not me.

 

Having said all this, you should certainly use the tools you have - and any knowledge you gain from this thread or elsewhere online! - to try to make things good for yourself and the audience. Maybe it'll be a compromise, but your pleasure doing this thing we call "playing" music should come first (imo)!

 

So what could you do? Maybe try moving the speakers a bit. How do you usually set them up? Mine are in back of me, on each side of course, angled in slighly, usually around 5 or 6 feet apart, raised off the floor about 8 inches. The horns are below ear level - that way I can push the sound to the bandstand and room without killing my ears. I try to have them no less than ~2 feet in back of me. 3 to 4 feet is better. I've experimented with having them farther apart, and find that gives me a nicer stereo field for stuff like strings and pads, but sometimes the pianos start sounding a bit too "far away" for my comfort.

 

I'm not familiar with the MOXF8 but it's a Yamaha workstation, correct? Does it not have separate eq units that can be placed on different parts (or whatever they call each section of a multitimbral setup)? I would guess that an eq set up to make a bass drum have a punchy low end might not work for a piano. I always roll off lows on my pianos, especially my virtual rhodes. A simple high-pass filter on the piano might eliminate the "boom" there without sacrificing the low end you want for the bass and bass drum. Does the MOXF8 have a "master" section where you can EQ the entire output? If you find that the speakers sound particularly bassy in a room, that's where I might put the aforementioned notch filter around 180 - 250 Hz, with a relatively large Q and just enough attentuation to lessen the "boom" without making things sound too thin.

 

What I know from doing many gigs with my laptop rig and QSC K8s is that each room is different, and I often have to slightly tweak my "final" eq settings with that mid-bass notch - move it a few tens of Hz either way and adjust the amount of cut a it. For a while I got very nerdy and programmed a setup on my iPhone using TouchOSC, where I could walk around a room, trigger a sequence I had recorded to play through my rig, and adjust the eq with my phone. I gave it up after a few gigs because I would usually come up with the same or close to the same settings I'd make just sitting at my keyboard. It was good for a few yuks from my fellow musicians though, as I waved my arms from the bar and stealthily tapped the button on my phone to start my sequence playing!

 

The main point of this novel would be my advice to not sweat this stuff too hard! You will never get things perfect for both you and the audience. Make it right for you at least, then do what you can to help if things really sound way different out in the room, within reason. The other thing to keep in mind is that John and Jane Q. Public are not sound engineers standing around critiquing your eq settings or the sound of your speakers! They don't know or care. I am often reminded of a Frank Zappa quote from his autobiography where he summed up the general public's attitude towards music: "give me a GOOD BEAT - something I can dance to. It has to go boom-bap, boom-boom bap. If it doesn't, I will hate it very, very much." 🙂 

 

Just give 'em that "boom-boom-bap", and good luck!

[Docbop]

I just say thing about the basic that the lower the speaker the more bass especially if on the floor.   Cabinet on the floor is going to couple with floor and increase bass response.   Get the cabinet off the floor and the higher in the air it reduces bass response.   Size of speakers are going to affect how well you hear the monitors according to how close to them you are.   Again bass take distance to develop its sound so big speaker are harder to hear when you're close to them, that's part of the reason bass players are using multiple 10"s on stage they are still moving lots of air but can hear themselves better.   This is something as a guitar player dealt with a lot.  Open back amp, closed back amp, amp on floor, amp up in the air,  (my preference for hearing myself and cutting thru),  two amps the second acting as a monitor on other side of stage for band members,  two amps for stereo spread,   two amps one for clean second for effects.      

 

This is just one of those things you have to experiment with plus keep in mind every stage or venue is going to be different so there is not one answer.   

[Reezekeys]

Agreed, I want my speakers off the floor. I've posted this pic before. Those are cheap plastic foldable footstools but they do the job.

 

The problem I have with poles is that the regular ones put the speakers too high for you to hear directly - your sound travels over your head and you could be hearing yourself reflecting off the walls, not great. I've seen references to shorter poles but don't they put the speakers at or close to ear level? That wouldn't work for me. This is the setup I find works best for when I need to provide my sound for me, the band, and the room.

 

[cphollis]

@cassad, I interpreted your question differently than others, so let's see if this helps?

 

The "extra bass" you get from a monitor lying horizontally on a stage is resonance from acoustic coupling.  Basically, the stage floor is acting as a speaker, and it doesn't sound good at all.  The effect is less pronounced on a hard floor, as it's just the speaker cabinet that now can push a bit harder.  For this reason, many self-powered PA units have a "monitor" setting which cuts bass.  Putting a speaker in a corner will reflect the bass energy emanating from the back of the unit, which is more than you might think.

 

It sounds like you're trying to harness this effect for extra bass.  The bass response you get from all of these is rather peaky and not very musical.  You will likely end up with boomy sounds that others can hear.  As others have said, if you want more bass, bring something that does the job.  You'd be surprised how much pleasant bottom end a small, inexpensive 12" sub can offer.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

14 hours ago, cassdad said:

Although I know this would probably be the best solution, as stated, I can no longer haul a subwoofer.  I had one, the matching sub for my DXR’s, the lighter 12-inch version.  OMG, just could not cart it around any longer.  

 

Also picking up from what cphollis said,  there are subs that are noticeably lighter than the 12" Yamaha's 66 lbs. They recently came up in the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/180311-bass-amp-for-hammond-clone/

 

[MathOfInsects]

Come to think of it, this would be the exact right situation for any of the various line-array-plus-sub products ("sound-sticks") out there. A small one with a 10" sub would be easier to cart than the 2 tens, and you'd get all the separation plus bottom end you'd need. Maybe worth looking into for one-man-band gigs.

[Tusker]

You have great responses here. 👍 👍

 

I would add the question, "how ornate are the bass frequencies?" Do you have drums loops stopping and starting, bass drops and other low frequency ornamentations every 8 or 6 bars? Is your bass instrument melodically active bar to bar? If not, you are overthinking the bass thing because much of the actual music is elsewhere. Let the bottom be wallpaper and let the rest of the music sing. You don't need deep bass to be compelling. 

 

If your bass is a major component of your actual music ... time to consider a sub.

[cassdad]

16 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

The answer to your question is... imo of course... don't sweat what you can't control. Every room will be different - unless you're the "house band" at a venue and always set up in the same spot.

 

First of all, I can't imagine setting up my speakers "across the room (opposite the speakers, ie. so that I am facing the speakers)." This makes absolutely no sense to me. To play a keyboard and hear yourself coming from across the room would mess me up big time.

 

Most rooms have parallel walls, and will reflect sound waves, causing peaks and nulls at certain frequencies. These peaks and nulls can be at different frequencies from each other by simply moving your head a few inches forward, back, or side-to-side. There is no possible way to have your rig sound the same to everyone in the room, frequency-response-wise. It's true as you say that certain speaker placements can accentuate bass frequencies, and it can help to sometimes roll off low end or maybe move the speakers a bit. If you describe the "too-much-bass" sound as "boomy" then I would guess that you're actually referring more to the "mid" bass region of frequencies, around 180 - 400Hz. I notch those frequencies down by a few db at almost every gig, and find it makes the overall sound "clearer" - i.e., I can push my levels more and not get overwhelmed by "too much bass."

 

As far as how it sounds to you vs the audience, and whether you should knowingly make it sound worse to you so that the audience will hear it "better" - this is one of my few triggers on KC! How the hell can you do a good job and enjoy yourself making music like this? I know this might be beyond the scope of what you're asking about, but imo it really goes to the heart of things. Is it more fulfilling to you to give the audience what you think they want to hear, at the expense of your ultimate enjoyment of playing music? Then by all means, boost your bass (or leave things as they are), and go for it. Not me.

 

Having said all this, you should certainly use the tools you have - and any knowledge you gain from this thread or elsewhere online! - to try to make things good for yourself and the audience. Maybe it'll be a compromise, but your pleasure doing this thing we call "playing" music should come first (imo)!

 

So what could you do? Maybe try moving the speakers a bit. How do you usually set them up? Mine are in back of me, on each side of course, angled in slighly, usually around 5 or 6 feet apart, raised off the floor about 8 inches. The horns are below ear level - that way I can push the sound to the bandstand and room without killing my ears. I try to have them no less than ~2 feet in back of me. 3 to 4 feet is better. I've experimented with having them farther apart, and find that gives me a nicer stereo field for stuff like strings and pads, but sometimes the pianos start sounding a bit too "far away" for my comfort.

 

I'm not familiar with the MOXF8 but it's a Yamaha workstation, correct? Does it not have separate eq units that can be placed on different parts (or whatever they call each section of a multitimbral setup)? I would guess that an eq set up to make a bass drum have a punchy low end might not work for a piano. I always roll off lows on my pianos, especially my virtual rhodes. A simple high-pass filter on the piano might eliminate the "boom" there without sacrificing the low end you want for the bass and bass drum. Does the MOXF8 have a "master" section where you can EQ the entire output? If you find that the speakers sound particularly bassy in a room, that's where I might put the aforementioned notch filter around 180 - 250 Hz, with a relatively large Q and just enough attentuation to lessen the "boom" without making things sound too thin.

 

What I know from doing many gigs with my laptop rig and QSC K8s is that each room is different, and I often have to slightly tweak my "final" eq settings with that mid-bass notch - move it a few tens of Hz either way and adjust the amount of cut a it. For a while I got very nerdy and programmed a setup on my iPhone using TouchOSC, where I could walk around a room, trigger a sequence I had recorded to play through my rig, and adjust the eq with my phone. I gave it up after a few gigs because I would usually come up with the same or close to the same settings I'd make just sitting at my keyboard. It was good for a few yuks from my fellow musicians though, as I waved my arms from the bar and stealthily tapped the button on my phone to start my sequence playing!

 

The main point of this novel would be my advice to not sweat this stuff too hard! You will never get things perfect for both you and the audience. Make it right for you at least, then do what you can to help if things really sound way different out in the room, within reason. The other thing to keep in mind is that John and Jane Q. Public are not sound engineers standing around critiquing your eq settings or the sound of your speakers! They don't know or care. I am often reminded of a Frank Zappa quote from his autobiography where he summed up the general public's attitude towards music: "give me a GOOD BEAT - something I can dance to. It has to go boom-bap, boom-boom bap. If it doesn't, I will hate it very, very much." 🙂 

 

Just give 'em that "boom-boom-bap", and good luck!

Thank you, Reezekeys - very informative and greatly appreciated.  Re me sitting across the room facing my speakers… that was SOLELY for the purpose of testing, allowing me to hear how it actually sounds compared to the speakers behind me on either side (I set-up identically to the way you do).  Although I also agree with you and Frank’s comments about the “general public”, I also feel that, although they don’t know or understand why or any specifics… they DO somehow immediately determine for themselves who “sounds good” to them and who doesn’t.  E.g. if the sound is “thin”, they don’t know that, but to them, they know it doesn’t sound as good to them compared to someone else’s sound that is “fuller” and more “punch”.  Thanks for your response.

[cassdad]

15 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Agreed, I want my speakers off the floor. I've posted this pic before. Those are cheap plastic foldable footstools but they do the job.

 

The problem I have with poles is that the regular ones put the speakers too high for you to hear directly - your sound travels over your head and you could be hearing yourself reflecting off the walls, not great. I've seen references to shorter poles but don't they put the speakers at or close to ear level? That wouldn't work for me. This is the setup I find works best for when I need to provide my sound for me, the band, and the room.

 

Reezekeys:  P.S.  I have and use the same short risers (got them at Lowes Home)!

[cassdad]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Also picking up from what cphollis said,  there are subs that are noticeably lighter than the 12" Yamaha's 66 lbs. They recently came up in the thread at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/180311-bass-amp-for-hammond-clone/

 

Thank you, AnotherScott (also my name by the way!)….   Lots of sub suggestions there.  However, I really don’t want to go that route if I don’t have to, for many reasons (transport vehicle space, stage real estate, old age….)!

[cassdad]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

Come to think of it, this would be the exact right situation for any of the various line-array-plus-sub products ("sound-sticks") out there. A small one with a 10" sub would be easier to cart than the 2 tens, and you'd get all the separation plus bottom end you'd need. Maybe worth looking into for one-man-band gigs.

Yup, I thought the same thing, so some time back purchased, still have, and used 2 (for stereo) Bose L1 Model 2 units.  I have since gone to a much lighter and simpler “2 Yamaha DXR-10 powered speakers” because:  1) believe it or not, the sound for digital pianos is MUCH better out of the DXR10 units, 2) I know the hype about how easy they try to make the “sound sticks” concept is to transport…. they are not…. hauling 2 sets of the Bose columns and subs around was way to much work, and 3) not to go off-topic, but when I was playing with a band, the other folks on stage all hated them because they all said all they could hear was me, because the Bose columns distributed sound nearly 180-degrees, whereas everyone else was using speakers pointing forward (below their knees, as many guitarists do), so although the guitarists are screaming loud to the audience, on stage, my Bose was all they heard, ugh.  These DXR units have solved that problem.

[cassdad]

54 minutes ago, Tusker said:

You have great responses here. 👍 👍

 

I would add the question, "how ornate are the bass frequencies?" Do you have drums loops stopping and starting, bass drops and other low frequency ornamentations every 8 or 6 bars? Is your bass instrument melodically active bar to bar? If not, you are overthinking the bass thing because much of the actual music is elsewhere. Let the bottom be wallpaper and let the rest of the music sing. You don't need deep bass to be compelling. 

 

If your bass is a major component of your actual music ... time to consider a sub.

Great input, thanks.  My bass parts are indeed “ornate”, and “melodically active bar to bar”.  I have a very strong (player-wise) left hand that I try to use to great advantage.  And, yes, I certainly have received tremendously valuable responses to my sincere question, very pleased and grateful!

[Tusker]

1 hour ago, cassdad said:

Great input, thanks.  My bass parts are indeed “ornate”, and “melodically active bar to bar”.  I have a very strong (player-wise) left hand that I try to use to great advantage.  And, yes, I certainly have received tremendously valuable responses to my sincere question, very pleased and grateful!

 

Woohoo! You've got to feature that then bro. Respect for a keyboard player who knows LHB power! 👍 👍

 

One man bands are all about cunning. It looks like you are quite a way down the path.

 

One next question might be room size. If the room is small, floor placement might give you the oomph you need for awhile. DXR10s are no slouches. I'd actually practice with  a freq analyzer if you need to (audio into laptop, use a graphic eq), watching your note placement especially between D2 (70 HZ) and G3 (200 HZ), to see how you are taxing ear-drums and woofers. It may be that you already know the trade-offs intimately so ignore this if I am just blathering. In any case, give some thought to how you scale between the rooms you are performing in.

 

I'd optimize your sonic arrangements to reduce the kick where possible, relying on snares and hi hats, in order to let that LHB speak. Except for THOSE moments.

 

I picked up that you might need to engineer how the speakers are placed relative to you so as to avoid killing your ear drums. It could be that one speaker sits a bit in front of the other give your ear a breather but still allow you to lock into the groove?

 

I know it sucks to think about more sound reinforcement. Speakers like the ones you have are among the most efficient SPL per pound of schlep. For small rooms, you already close to optimum. Subs are heavy. Maybe there is optimizing of your roller, cart, wheels, cases etc. The guys in this forum have more gig miles than are legal so I would absolutely milk them for the scoop on that.

 

All The Best!!

 

 

[drawback]

I had a Yorkville YS10SP small subwoofer that gave just enough low end punch with its 38 lb 10" powered speaker. Small and easy to transport compared to a few other smaller subs. They're just out of production, but you can still pick them up at retail outlets until they're gone. Might be just enough for you.

 

https://yorkville.com/legacy/product/yx10sp/

 

Then there's the venerable Behringer B1200D. Great little sub, just a tad bigger, but full featured for the price. Quite a few KC'ers have them.

 

https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0A9M

[The Real MC]

What's the square footage of the rooms you are playing?  That is a big factor in solutions for bass reproduction.

 

Coupling the speakers on the floor is a must for punchy kick drum.  Remember you don't hear bass you feel it.  Bass reproducers need to both direct sound and to radiate.  What kind of cabinet/size of speaker(s)?  Depends on the size of the room.

 

I have been providing the PA for bands I played in since 2003 and I know my way around pro audio.  I've done everything from outdoor parks to coffee clubs; I had to add a smaller system because the big outdoor system was just overkill for smaller venues.

[cassdad]

3 hours ago, The Real MC said:

What's the square footage of the rooms you are playing?  That is a big factor in solutions for bass reproduction.

 

Coupling the speakers on the floor is a must for punchy kick drum.  Remember you don't hear bass you feel it.  Bass reproducers need to both direct sound and to radiate.  What kind of cabinet/size of speaker(s)?  Depends on the size of the room.

 

I have been providing the PA for bands I played in since 2003 and I know my way around pro audio.  I've done everything from outdoor parks to coffee clubs; I had to add a smaller system because the big outdoor system was just overkill for smaller venues.

Mostly smaller venues.  My DXR-10 cabs cannot handle large venues either - for large venues I would need an entirely different system anyways.  I agree, venue size is a key factor.