Numerlogy, anyone?

[Phait]

I've been trying to figure out the signifiance of the number 357, as I tend to catch it alot, sometimes on clocks or in print. The sum is 15...

 

I did something like look in the Bible - 3rd book, 5th chapter, 7th verse of Old Testament and I get:

 

LEVITICUS (3) CHAPTER 5, VERSE 7

"But if he cannot afford a lamb, then he shall bring, as his guilt offering to the LORD for the sin which he has committed, two turtledoves or two young pigeons, one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering.

 

In the New Testament:

 

LUKE (3) CHAPTER 5, VERSE 7

"they beckoned to their partners in the other boat to come and help them. And they came and filled both the boats, so that they began to sink."

 

I'm lost. Personally, I think the number has some kind of significance, for it to crop up so moderately. I recently took a numerology test online and it was quite accurate.

[Salyphus]

You just need a poop tent

[Dave Horne]

Phait, you are joking with us, aren't you?

[Phait]

No.

[Hound Dog]

How about taking a seven-string guitar, fretting the 3rd, 5th, and 7th string at the 15th fret and see if it inspires something?

[Gulliver]

Originally posted by Phait:

I've been trying to figure out the signifiance of the number 357, as I tend to catch it alot, sometimes on clocks or in print. The sum is 15...

 

I did something like look in the Bible - 3rd book, 5th chapter, 7th verse of Old Testament and I get:

........

The sum is 6 (don't forget: 1+5). So to learn the final truth about yourself you have to look into 6-th book, 6-th chapter and 6-th verse.

 

[Phait]

[Dave Horne]

What would happen if a base ten numerologist were to meet an alien with only eight digits - a base eight alien. (We only have 10 numbers because we have ten fingers.)

 

I thought there might have been something with numbers when I was eight or nine, but when I got a little older (ten or eleven) I realized numerology was on the same level as phrenology and astrology.

 

I suppose it's harmless fun ... or a complete waste of time.

[JES]

Christian numerology is derived from Jewish numerology, which was originally developed through the book of Zohar (a Hebraic mystical text that gained popularity as other Hebraic religious texts were banned by Christians in the middle ages) as a new protocol for reading the Torah. It was especially powerful because in the Hebrew language, letters also stood for numbers (though I don't think that's the usage in modern Hebrew), so that Hebrew words were also, literally, numbers.

 

The problem with doing numerology in English is that it's a false literalism (like fundamentalists who read the "exact word" of the Bible but not in any of its original languages -- how can you be a literalist about a translation?).

 

Not much help, eh, but you asked if anyone knows a little about numerology. I know a little bit about the history of Hebraic writing, and I had a numerologist for a Hebrew school teacher when we was like 12. That's pretty much the only thing I remember from Hebrew school.

 

--JES

[Mats Olsson.]

There are only 10 kinds of people: those who understand the concept of binary numbers and those that don't.

[Stephen Fortner]

A .357 magnum can be pretty significant in a delicate situation.

 

But seriously folks, I have the same view of numerology that I do of astrology, palmistry, and other pseudosciences: Its pronouncements are usually made in general enough terms that it's easy to read oneself into the description. This is actually known as the Forer effect (or Barnum effect)... I can find something relevant in every fortune cookie if I try.

 

Human cognition matches patterns, which makes good sense from an evolutionary standpoint. (That last red berry made me sick, so I'll avoid these over here.) In a society where we don't have a day-to-day struggle to kill some food, that pattern-matching capacity essentially plays with itself. Generate a random three-digit number (with dice, a computer, whatever) and then spend the next week trying to find "significant" occurences of that number. I guarantee you'll find a bunch.

 

If you have reason to believe some document you're reading was intentionally written so that some sort of numerical relationships in the text convey meaning, that's a different story.

[Gus Lozada]

the only thing I know about numerology is...

 

I am Number One.

 

 

Sorry amigo, I can't help.

[NMcGuitar]

Originally posted by Mats Olsson.:

There are only 10 kinds of people: those who understand the concept of binary numbers and those that don't.

[Slowly]

I get the same thing with the number 1234. Haven't figured the significance yet. I'm gonna try the Bible like you did. Kinda hard with four numbers, where is the split? Kcbass

[aeon]

All you need to know about Numerology is right here:

 

http://www.five12.com/

 

cheers,

aeon

[boosh]

the sum is 6. 3+5+7=15 1+5 = 6

 

#6 is connected with ease,comfort,courtasy and beauty but it also means duty and responsebillity. Most of all people who want to lead a regular life and want to do something for community service will find a lot of help in this number.

There could be a danger however when friends and relatives expect too much from this person.

6 is also the number which belongs to the voice and is important to people who want to have a carreer in singing.

[boosh]

My numbers are 2 and 7

I was born on the 2nd ,...hour 22:22 of the 7th month

 

Nostradamus died on the 2nd of the 7th

Brian Jones died on the 2nd of the 7th

Jim Morrison died the exact moment I was born

I married on the 2nd of the 7th

I have it tattoed on my arm.

Dunno why but 0207 is my number,... you guys btw would call it 0702

[wietse]

Originally posted by Phait:

hmm 666 sounds familiar for some reason.

i'm reasonably familiar with numerology ,have some books on it.

but think it's more for fun than really meaning anything.

and you always have to ad up to one number ,the only exceptions are 11 , 12 and 22 some books give a different meaning to these numbers.

[Dave Horne]

Originally posted by boosh:

the sum is 6. 3+5+7=15 1+5 = 6

 

#6 is connected with ease,comfort,courtasy and beauty but it also means duty and responsebillity. Most of all people who want to lead a regular life and want to do something for community service will find a lot of help in this number.

There could be a danger however when friends and relatives expect too much from this person.

6 is also the number which belongs to the voice and is important to people who want to have a carreer in singing.

You're kidding, right?

[Bunny Knutson]

Oaktown's 357:

 

http://www.coolforever.com/temp/oaktowns357_turnitup_12.JPG

 

I used to know one of the chicks from this group. They did BG vox for MC Hammer, or something.

[I I mjrn]

Per Dave Horne, there's no need to invoke aliens (or binary numbers, etc.) to consider alternatives to the "facts" of numerology. Many Earth cultures have used other systems...like counting up to 60 (big in the ancient Mid-East as well as with the Maya); some didn't even conceptualize high numbers particularly, using a term such as "many" for anything more than their fingers could indicate. Where's that leave things for the sugnificance of numbers?

In medieval Europe, equal temperament was fought for centuries because it "violated the natural laws of music proportion" even though Pythagorus himself knew that his system of intervallic calculation was out of whack when extended beyond an octave.

 

With all respect, Phait, numerology, like astrology, is a result of people falling prey to that part of the brain that looks for patterns & then tries to find the system behind them. This is part of our success as a species (all hunting is an outgrowth of this skill---"The deer always pass this way at this time; if I wait here, I'll catch one!").

It's also a downfall---to often people confuse cause & the reason for something, as though everything has both when there's often only the former.

 

The same with popular ideas of categorizing people into set groups rather than seeing them as individuals with intermixed, varied characteristics. Ultimately, I think it reflects a need for a comforting supportive outlook in face of life's unpredictability but numbers were invented by people (& there've been many variant methods); they aren't divinely ordained to govern us.

 

We look for significance instinctively but it may or may not exist & we should use our reasoning ability to discern mental patterns that mislead us.

[antimatter]

3 Babe Ruth

5 Joe DiMaggio

7 Mickey Mantle

 

You must go to Yankee Stadium and sit in the bleachers. First, kidnap some famous author. Force them to purchase $7 Hot Dogs or whatever they cost this week.

Listen for voices and stuff. Like in that movie with that guy and the farm...

[I I mjrn]

Addendum: One reason a "numerology test" may seem "quite accurate" is the same reason that an astrologic description may seem so.

They are usually more vague than precise & we tend to latch onto the parts that stike us as correct & disregard what seems not so.

If one has any inclination to believe something it only takes a little support to tip the scale.

[Jotown]

Originally posted by JES:

Christian numerology is derived from Jewish numerology, which was originally developed through the book of Zohar (a Hebraic mystical text that gained popularity as other Hebraic religious texts were banned by Christians in the middle ages) as a new protocol for reading the Torah. It was especially powerful because in the Hebrew language, letters also stood for numbers (though I don't think that's the usage in modern Hebrew), so that Hebrew words were also, literally, numbers.--JES

Very good JES. An intelligent response. The Kabbalah is the ancient Hebrew mystery school that you speak of. Numbers as sacred symbols is part of many esoteric belief systems, including Tibetan Buddhism.

 

Phait, if you do a search on the Kabbalah and numerology together you will find some interesting results.

 

One thing you can count on in these forums, and the Internet in general, is that there are plenty of people who will take your sincere questions and then make black and white blanket statements on topics that they are completely ignorant about.

 

All higher math and science is based on numbers as symbols for higher and broader concepts that are not found in the numbers themselves. Things like computers and digital recording are a couple of examples.

 

Good luck with your numbers Phait.

[Jotown]

One more thought.

 

Music itself is a system of numbers as sacred symbols represented by us as the notes we play or sing.

 

Just ask Pythagoras, or Ptolemy, or Plato for that matter. Oh, but I forgot; we are much smarter than they could have possibly been.

[Dave Horne]

If you think there might be something in numerology, let's stop and ask Nobel prize winners if they 'believe' in numerology.

 

There's a book by Michael Shermer - Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition and Other Confusions of our Time

that you might want to pick up and read.

[Jotown]

Well Dave, For starters I don't believe that Michael Shermer is a Nobel Laureate, he is a professional skeptic, so I would be skeptical of his Skepticism.

 

For the record I am not a practitioner, or even necessarily a believer in numerology.

 

I'll bet you know nothing at all about numerology, or astrology or any of the other things you so readily dismiss. Rather than regurgitating someone else's skepticism it is a good practice to investigate a subject that you are ignorant about, and then make an informed decision of your own as to whether or not the subject you are dismissing has any merit.

 

Now Phait posed a sincere question, one that may be very important to him. To dismiss his query out of hand without anything to back it up but an ill informed opinion just doesn't seem very helpful, that's all.

 

Now if you would like to offer the results of your informed investigation as to why numerology, astrology, (or anything else you have dissed) doesn't work, I would be all ears.

[Chip Curtis]

Go get the movie "Pi." I liked it. 'Course I'm kind of a wack job. Fractals are cool to study too. We live as and in algorithms. You are what you eat. You can take any number and apply it to anything especially if you are looking for it- don't. Lord Kelvin said "I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts, advanced to the stage of science, whatever the matter may be."

[Dave Horne]

Now if you would like to offer the results of your informed investigation as to why numerology, astrology, (or anything else you have dissed) doesn't work, I would be all ears.

If you believe that numerology or astrology exists, the burden of proof is on you to back it up. I do not believe that they are based on anything that can be proven and we know that trying to prove a negative is futile. (You can't prove that it doesn't work ... is an example of a negative statement. Negative statements are always thrown around by those who can not explain how something works.) If you believe they are based remotely on anything that can be verified, the burden of proof is on you. That's pretty clear, isn't it?

 

Also, if you or anyone else think that numerology, astrology ... anything supernatural for that matter can be verified, you can collect a $1,000,000 from the James Randi Educational Foundation. James Randi To date, the money has not been collected. People who use divining rods to divine the location of water ... you name it, have all failed when tested.

 

Perhaps you could submit yourself for testing - I'll all pins and needles.

[JES]

Belief is powerful precisely because it defies proof. At least that's what Kirkegaard said.

 

I don't BELIEVE in the Kabbalah, but I see no reason why it is any LESS believable that the tenets of Judaism (the religion in which I was educated) or any other major religion. And its weirdness makes it fascinating.

 

Given that it is widely considered legitimate on this board to be religious and express one's faith (or at least used to be. . .I come around a lot less as the tone has gotten meaner than it used to be in many threads), I don't see what the big deal is about expressing faith or interest in a venerable mystical tradition. Its plausibility is exactly equal to any more "official" or "legit" religion.

 

I'm a humanist and believe in people, mostly. Some people think that's crazy, too, so I'm not going to throw stones at glass houses. The first poster wanted to know about numerology; people should have the chance to learn and decide for themselves, don't you think?

 

Best,

--JES