Josh Paxton Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 It's been a while since I've done any organ trio stuff, but I've been feeling the pull again, and want to get a suitable dual-manual rig going. The responsible thing would be to use my long-dormant original Mojo as a controller for B-3x on an iPad. What I want to do instead is sell the Mojo for whatever I can get, and put that toward a MAG C2. I'm sure the MAG would be better, but the question is, would it be "better enough" to justify the cost. Anyone here who's used both a MAG and B-3X, and have a strong opinion either way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 I enjoy watching your GAS. May I ask why the you say original Mojo is no longer suitable? I won't go into the most punters won't notice argument. Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Either the Mag or the Mojo are really nice live as is. The Mag in particular stocked with the latest HX3 and the internal Ventilator - I"d be surprised if you preferred B3-X over that in a live setting. For recording, I can see the attraction of just using B3-X 'in the box', done. In which case, I would 100% use hardware I already own as a controller for a soft synth. A Mag is a pricey controller! If I didn"t already own a Mojo, I"d probably be hunting down an XK-3 or 3c system or a Nord C2D second hand to use purely as a dual manual controller. But if the gigs and funds are there, there"s no accounting for what makes one happy. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 If you have a dual manual Mojo, personally, I'd stick with it (I know that's not what you want to hear). Honestly, the differences are marginally better, not so much better that I'd spend that kind of money for the incremental difference. No one, including you, is going to say "wow that Mojo didn't sound anything like a B3". I was headed down the HX3 path myself and almost pulled the trigger, but in reality I realized that the differences were small so I'm still in the Mojo world (through the Gemini module). Listen to this video, no shrillness, sounds very much like Brent Mydland recorded audio..... Listen at about the 1:45 mark. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 I'm guessing getting the lower manual for the Mojo 61 isn't an option you're looking at because of the single set of drawbars? I don't disagree with that, depending on the gig, just wondering if that's you're thinking. Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 Oh, I didn"t realize he didn"t already have the lower manual for the mojo61. I thought it was an original Mojo. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 He said in his OP that he had an original Mojo so i was assuming he has a dual manual with dual drawbars. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Quinn Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 I have a dual manual mojo, HX3 Expander Module, and B-3X. I use the mojo with a Vent 2 for jazz trio gigs; I don"t care for the internal sim but some people do. I never felt the urge to use the HX3 on a jazz gig; I"ve only used it on rock and blues gigs. I like the HX3 internal sim and don"t feel it needs the Vent 2"s help. To my ears the HX3 sounds like a close mic"ed Leslie whereas the Mojo sounds more like a Hammond and Leslie in the room. I think they"re both great and it comes down to personal preference. B-3X is great too and I like the internal sim. I used B-3X as an improvement for the Electro 4D but don"t really see it as an improvement for the Mojo or HX3. Having said that, I"ve never done a head to head comparison with any of these. On a related note, I bought an Hammond SK Pro earlier this year and love it! Quote https://alquinn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Paxton Posted November 13, 2021 Author Share Posted November 13, 2021 Turns out I answered my own question by spending the afternoon tweaking B-3X and setting it up to work with the Mojo. Once I got the controls mapped properly and got the sound dialed in, I realized it will work just fine for me. I had only used it on a couple rock gigs before, and just used it as it sounded "out of the box." It was fine, but it didn't "wow" me the way it did some people. But now that I've spent some time getting the sound the way I like my tone/clonewheels to sound, I dig it a lot. To answer some questions: the Mojo in question is the original 2-manual version, from shortly after they first came out. (I do also have a 61, but that's for rock and funk gigs when I only need one manual's worth of organ.) Hence the Leslie sim isn't as good as later versions, and is fairly weak by today's standards. Yes, I could throw a Vent on it. Or I could use the 61 (whose Leslie sim I do like) with another board as a lower manual. I'm just not thrilled with either of those options. But I think the B-3X option and I are gonna get along just fine. I do still love the look of the MAG, but not enough to spend that kind of coin when I have an already-paid-for solution that works this well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 As much as I like the HX3 which runs the MAG organ I have never cone to terms with the chorus vibrato parameters. The multitude of options can quickly become a crazymaker. Also the upper octave of HX3 is not exactly Hammond like.There are some warbly tones up there....I have not been able to adjust warble out. I have been spoiled by Viscount Legend Live and Numa 1. I have still not heard HX3.5...hoping there are improvements to CV. I also hear upper octave warbler issues in the Mojo. I would strongly consider Viscount after living with Mojo and HX3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old No7 Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Listen to this video, no shrillness, sounds very much like Brent Mydland recorded audio..... Listen at about the 1:45 mark. Sounds great Dave! Great chops! Thanks for sharing! That's just how I envision my next band -- all older rockers, a bunch of gray hair, but with the love (and history) of those timeless tunes -- and the chops to do it well! "Not too old to rock and roll -- Still too young to die" That would be the theme of my next band. Old No7 Quote Yamaha MODX6 * Hammond SK Pro 73 * Roland Fantom-08 * Crumar Mojo Pedals * Mackie Thump 12As * Tascam DP-24SD * JBL 305 MkIIs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuelBLupowitz Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Honestly, y'all, sometimes these threads are great for me because they remind me I *don't* need to covet the thing I almost got but didn't, lol. I love my Mojo XT but I got it less than a year before the Classic came out and not long before the MAG seemed to rise up in everyone's esteem, so it's nice to remember I don't constantly have to want to upgrade. Quote Samuel B. Lupowitz Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Paxton Posted November 16, 2021 Author Share Posted November 16, 2021 I have been spoiled by Viscount Legend Live and Numa 1. I had a Legend Live for a few days and sent it back. I know it's got lots of fans around here, but it just left me cold. Never tried the Numa, though I was under the vague impression that it wasn't considered a serious contender in the clone wars. In any event, now that I've got the Mojo and B-3X working together nicely, that should keep my happy for at least another three months or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 I like the HX3 internal sim and don"t feel it needs the Vent 2"s help Am I correct in assuming you have the newest HX3 implementation? On a related note, I bought an Hammond SK Pro earlier this year and love it! How would you compare its rotary effect to the others you mentioned? Honestly, y'all, sometimes these threads are great for me because they remind me I *don't* need to covet the thing I almost got but didn't, lol. I love my Mojo XT but I got it less than a year before the Classic came out and not long before the MAG seemed to rise up in everyone's esteem, so it's nice to remember I don't constantly have to want to upgrade. Yes... Delaware Dave posted a video with a nice Mojo(61) sound... and the fact is, I think lots of clones could do a very nice job approximating that sound (esp. with a Vent). Note that that won't stop me from obsessing over this stuff. ;-) Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Let me has, how deep have you gone in and tweaked the Mojo? You mentioned rock gigs, and at first, I'll admit the Mojo didn't blow me away until I went in and did some twiddling. The Leslie, in particular, has A LOT of tweakability and becomes a completely new beast depending upon your settings. I just didn't feel like it the distortion was growling and blooming enough for my interest, but the "Feedback" setting really gave it some sonic depth that I wasn't hearing before. Many Leslie sims have a "we made it good, so live with it" kind of attitude, I've found that the Mojo offers a larger range of stylistic choices than almost any other I've used. I love Melda's Vintage Rotary, but it would be too gritty for jazz. And I've found Audio Sampling B5-3 to still be too "wussy" for rock. Man, if you can get yourself flying without having to hook up an iPad, the Mojo itself is a lot of bang for your buck. I hate to hear that someone feels they need to bypass it. That's an extra headache! Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Not sure what I'd do with myself if I ever stopped obsessing about Hammond clones. I'd have to take up a new hobby like knitting or something. In any case, I'm happy with the SKPro as a clone. I've compared it closely with the B3X and while I prefer the B3X, the difference to my ears doesn't justify the extra procedures involved to run it, especially for the low rent gigs that seem to be my fate these days. Still like the Mojo, too. Between SKPro, B3X, and Mojo, the only person who's going to notice and care about the difference is me. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 The multitude of options can quickly become a crazymaker. Yeah, that can be a double-edged sword. On one hand, I'm enjoying the SK Pro, but OTOH, the tweakability can get a little insane! But I was able to get a sound out of it that was very close to the version of the sound I had in another keyboard, and that was pretty impressive. One of the things I want to do is to see how close I can get to that same sound using B3X, VB3m, and the Gemini module. But this will probably be a whole other thread... Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 It amazes me that I caught as much hell as I did back about 10 years ago because I liked and still like the Numa 1. So I guess I am a confirmed Key B advocate. I just can't seem to get the same CV result from anything else much as I diddle with editing parameters I am not so much concerned with Leslie sim at this point. Editing those drives me crazy too! The best result I have had with Leslie sim was running two clones simultaneously and taking percussion out of the sim Also...to me cabinet simulation and miking simulation is pure crazy making. I will say that Key B overdrive is not that great....mojo and hx3 do that better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Quinn Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 I like the HX3 internal sim and don"t feel it needs the Vent 2"s help Am I correct in assuming you have the newest HX3 implementation? No, I have a previous version. They call it HX3.4 or mk4. On a related note, I bought an Hammond SK Pro earlier this year and love it! How would you compare its rotary effect to the others you mentioned? I haven't done any direct comparisons so I can't really answer with confidence. I can tell that, for me, the SK Pro, HX3, and B-3X rotary effects are fun, gig-able, authentic, and inspiring, but the Mojo rotary effect is not. I only feel the need to use the Vent 2 with the Mojo. Quote https://alquinn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Al, out of curiosity. Do you monitor yourself with mono or stereo amplification and typically on your gigs does FOH mix you in mono or stereo? Or in smaller venues are only vocals going through PA? Thanks! Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Quinn Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 I monitor myself in stereo. If I"m going through FOH it"s almost always stereo. My last FOH mono experience was a few years ago. Yes, for smaller venues I usually don"t go through the PA. Then there"s this strange middle ground where folks insist on putting keys (and other instruments) through the PA in a smallish venue and it doesn"t sound as good as using just the stage amps. Quote https://alquinn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulie Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Hi, Josh, and everyone. I'm on the same chapter as you. Want HX3 or B-3X to improve my Crumar Mojo 61 sound. After several years using a Mojo 61 (thought I was happy enough with it), I tried B-3X (Mac version), and it blown me away. The behaviour and tone of the Leslie overdrive is the best I've hear so far. I'm been researching on the last months triyng to hear (direct line out) the last version of HX3 on a direct comparison (the leslie sim, "CaM Rotor", has been dramatically improved), but I can't afford a HX3 module just to test. But I'm on that struggle right now, I want to improve my live sound (Mojo 61 has a great sound and options to customize, but I can't reach the level of authenticity (even messin with the famous "tube feedback setting) on the Leslie overdrive. The doppler effect is better also in B-3X) with any of those options. I've tried to use with my Mojo 61 and iPad Mini 5 the B-3X iPad version, but since the last IOS upgrade I had all the time hangin' notes, It becomed unusable for me. May I ask you what is your setup for control B-3X with your Mojo? What midi interface do you use? Best Regards, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Hi, Josh, and everyone. I'm on the same chapter as you. Want HX3 or B-3X to improve my Crumar Mojo 61 sound. After several years using a Mojo 61 (thought I was happy enough with it), I tried B-3X (Mac version), and it blown me away. The behaviour and tone of the Leslie overdrive is the best I've hear so far. I'm been researching on the last months triyng to hear (direct line out) the last version of HX3 on a direct comparison (the leslie sim, "CaM Rotor", has been dramatically improved), but I can't afford a HX3 module just to test. But I'm on that struggle right now, I want to improve my live sound (Mojo 61 has a great sound and options to customize, but I can't reach the level of authenticity (even messin with the famous "tube feedback setting) on the Leslie overdrive. The doppler effect is better also in B-3X) with any of those options. I've tried to use with my Mojo 61 and iPad Mini 5 the B-3X iPad version, but since the last IOS upgrade I had all the time hangin' notes, It becomed unusable for me. May I ask you what is your setup for control B-3X with your Mojo? What midi interface do you use? Best Regards, Josh Run the Mojo through a Ventilator leslie sim, it will improve both the overdrive and the leslie effect. That puts the Mojo back into the same playing field as the other choices. The investment of this adjustment is way less than the investment in an HX3 module. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulie Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Hi, Dave. I tried it also a while ago. Doesn't like the sound of the Vent (MiniVent II in my case) with the Mojo.... too harsh. It's my taste, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Hi, Dave. I tried it also a while ago. Doesn't like the sound of the Vent (MiniVent II in my case) with the Mojo.... too harsh. It's my taste, I suppose. I have an original Vent, not a Mini-Vent. Not sure what the sound difference is. This may sound crazy but if I run organ through an old Keyboard amp (KB300) it sound much better. A leslie speaker is a lo-fi speaker. My KB300 is lo-fi compared to my EV powered monitor. For some reason I get no harshness through the KB300 most likely because of the lack of quality from the piezo's. The issue for me with that solution is it becomes a specialty amp just for the organ; wouldn't be an issue if the specialty amp didn't way 81 pounds. The highest note on a Hammond is just a tad under 6kHz. My mixer's treble cross over point is 12kHz so I pull the treble well back to reduce that shrillness (which I don't even get on the KB300). It's definitely amplification related. Go back to the 3rd posting in this topic and listen to the video; you won't find any harshness in its sound. So it is definitely the output speaker that makes the difference. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulie Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Thanks Dave. But, in that video (good playing and singin, bro) you're trough a Leslie.... that's cheating! That's, no doubt, THE SOUND. For me, the organ sound is 70% Leslie, 30% organ. With a real Leslie, everything works. Even an oldie Nord C1 sounds superb on a Leslie. I need a solution that sims (the best that I can) a Leslie speaker that I can't carry to a gigs. Ideally, a non-amp at all solution. I think we're very close at last to that point, but I can't decide wich solution is better now. Best Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Paxton Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 May I ask you what is your setup for control B-3X with your Mojo? What midi interface do you use? No interface, just USB MIDI with the basic camera connector, and the headphone out for audio. I'm not sure which version of iOS I'm running, but I know it's not the latest one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulie Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Just like me, same setup. I started to have the issues with IOS 15, my iPad was a Mini 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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